Re-watch thread ATL @ NE

[luuked]

Here are my thoughts:

1. I'm not sure if Marsh or anyone is capable of knowing what a player on the other side of the line is doing.
2. Part of the reason Marsh lost edge containment was that he was held. He took an initial step towards the inside gap but moved back to the outside when Ryan started to scramble.
3. The step to the inside was necessary to close the inside running lane imo.
4. The ref wasn't going to call anything on that play apparently.

Hands to the face? Marsh's head snaps back during the play.


Marsh was protecting both gaps. His move to the inside closed that gap.



This is when Marsh attempts to move to the outside. He is being held. There is no doubt on this.


Still being held.

My issue with his step to the inside is that while there is a running lane inside there are also more bodies on the inside who can maybe disengage and/or slow Ryan down than on the outside where there is no hope at all.

I get that those are millisecond decisions but by all accounts those are all situations they go through in practice and I dont see how protecting the inside lane over the outside lane can be a good idea.

 

[long distance]

I think he made the right play in this situation. This is an INT 8 out of 10 times. Obviously if this is third down it might be a different situation but you already alluded to that.

Apart from Julio how many players will be able to take that ball away from a CB in this situation ?

There were quite a few similar plays last weeks (with WRs grabbing the ball from CBs going for INT - not all in end zone or similar situation of course). Id really like to hear BBs take on this one (in particular and in general)..

 

[Tony2046]

My issue with this step to the inside is that while there is a running lane there as well there are also more bodies on the inside who can maybe disengage and/or slow Ryan down than on the outside where there is no hope at all.

I get that those are millisecond decisions but by all accounts those are all situations they go through in practice and I dont see how protecting the inside lane over the outside lane can be a good idea.

I'm not sure. Marsh has to be responsible for both gaps imo. I see the step to the inside moves the lineman to the inside which essentially closes the inside running lane. His step back to the outside was an attempt to control the outside lane.

It could still be a technique issue. Being held is going to happen and Marsh needs to fight through that.

Good discussion. I'm a little worried that I find this topic incredibly interesting.

 

[luuked]

I'm not sure. Marsh has to be responsible for both gaps imo. I see the step to the inside moves the lineman to the inside which essentially closes the inside running lane. His step back to the outside was an attempt to control the outside lane.

It could still be a technique issue. Being held is going to happen and Marsh needs to fight through that.

Good discussion. I'm a little worried that I find this topic incredibly interesting.

I agree that he is kinda responsible for both but in the end you want him to set the edge and funnel players inside where there is at least a chance that another DL player or a LB can clean up. But definitely an interesting conversation even if its like pretty much a niche.

 

[Ring 6]

The real issue I see on this play is Marsh taking those steps to the inside after the initial contact with the lineman. That was totally unnecessary especially with Wise being already in the backfield fighting the tackle pretty close to Ryan.

If Marsh maintains outside leverage Ryan will have to either throw soon or try a run inside where there were considerably more bodies than on the outside where there are none:

Marsh is trying to get to the QB. His first move was an outside rush that the OL countered, so he is trying to escape the block and get to the QB.

 

[Oswlek]

Re: Marsh's inside step on the scramble, his biggest problem is that he occassionally gets too far upfield and provides no contain whatsoever. IMO the movement indicates awareness and is a sign of progress.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

I wonder if #21 makes a business decision here or simply “corner instincts“ get the better of him (much safer alternative being just punching the ball away)?



I wonder if BB went at him on Monday regarding this one . or he considers this risky play good complimentary football . being 1st and goal on 1yd line?

It just looks like he went for a pick that he probably would have had against most other receivers, but Julio with his HUGE size/strength advantage just simply ripped it out of his hands for the completion

That play is an example of Tier 2 CB pay vs Tier 1 CB pay (Butler vs Gilmore)

The bigger, more physical corners that can lock someone down get the top tier money

 

[skinnydog]

Agree. That is exactly what they saw. What they didn't see is the corner post to the left sideline

Yes, that does appear to be open, but I don;t think they expected it to be open based on their pre-snap read. If they played them again, I bet you would see that route run in that game. But for now I love the fact that they both recognized there would be a soft spot in the zone defense 25 yards down the field and executed the play.

 

[skinnydog]

Saying Tom screwed up was harsh

My intent was to call out that they didn't take advantage of the bigger opportunity on that play.

I think the reason I find this play fascinating is that from the video clip there are other routes that Cooks could have run also with success. He could gone deep down the sideline as you suggest and that would have been a home run play. The cornerback sitting in the flat just sort of stayed there while Cooks ran past him, so Cooks could have also cut left after about 15 yards for a catch along the sideline and a first down. Those routes also appear to have been open, but what impresses me is that Brady and Cooks were so much in sync. I suspect the game plan called for that route by Cooks when they saw that coverage. If so, then Cooks has a great grasp of the game plan and Brady trusts that he does.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yes, that does appear to be open, but I don;t think they expected it to be open based on their pre-snap read. If they played them again, I bet you would see that route run in that game. But for now I love the fact that they both recognized there would be a soft spot in the zone defense 25 yards down the field and executed the play.

Yea. I don't mean to be a spoiled brat about a 25yd gain. Just saying there was a play there

 

[nabwong]

like Romo says every week . its a copycat league



poor Reiss . he was so happy with Josh's design of this play..

You’re telling me that the falcons D watched tape on the Texans D? Amazing!!!!

 

[captain stone]

I wonder if #21 makes a business decision here or simply “corner instincts“ get the better of him (much safer alternative being just punching the ball away)?



I wonder if BB went at him on Monday regarding this one . or he considers this risky play good complimentary football . being 1st and goal on 1yd line?

I'm not sure that I'm seeing what else Butler could've done on that play. He played it perfectly, as far as I was concerned.

 

[captain stone]

Re: Marsh's inside step on the scramble, his biggest problem is that he occassionally gets too far upfield and provides no contain whatsoever. IMO the movement indicates awareness and is a sign of progress.

Unfortunately, there was another play, later in the game, during which Marsh went all the way around the QB and allowed Ryan to scramble for another 1st down. It was pretty comical just how easily Marsh let the RT to take him in almost a complete circle.

 

[skinnydog]

I'm not sure that I'm seeing what else Butler could've done on that play. He played it perfectly, as far as I was concerned.

Grow another 3 or 4 inches

 

[Wheelman]

I think he made the right play in this situation. This is an INT 8 out of 10 times. Obviously if this is third down it might be a different situation but you already alluded to that.

Apart from Julio how many players will be able to take that ball away from a CB in this situation ?

Emmanuel Sanders, 2015 AFC Champ Game.

 

[Wheelman]

On the 3rd down play in the red zone that was incomplete to Hogan and eventually lead to a FG to make it 10-0.

That ball wasn't meant for him. He was covered the entire time. Looks like Brady lost his balance throwing it. The ball was always meant to go to an open Gronk. Should have been a TD. That or He was trying to avoid having the ball knocked down from the two roaming defenders?

And if Brady didn't like his matchups on the left side he would have scanned to the right and found a wide open Cooks.

Should have been 21-0 at the end of the half.

 

[Wheelman]

From about 2:15, XO's on Matt Ryan 1st scramble on 4th down, and FG block.

 

[luuked]

From about 2:15, XO's on Matt Ryan 1st scramble on 4th down, and FG block.

The stuff on the field goal block and how it was a pattern for Atlanta to line up like that is great stuff. Good job by coaching to pick up on it and Marsh to execute.

In terms of the scramble.. I mean look at all the space vacated. I just dont see how in this situation the first priority of Marsh is rushing the passer instead of protecting the edge and funnel a potential QB scramble inside:



There is just nobody on the outside at all. I think this is one of those plays that Nink used to nail so well where he put up pressure but rarely overcommitted to the point where he lost outside leverage too much.

Chathams review is up and I am looking forward to hear his take on it.

 

[PP2]

My impression is that tom didn't call anything, he and Cooks read the coverage at the line, saw it was zone coverage, both saw the slight shift in the zone to the right and read the same route.

This is why I hate it when they don't include the presnap footage with the all-22 (or were you able to see it?). If Brady called the "alert" prior to this snap (tapping his helmet), we would know 100% for sure that this route was coverage based because as you know, the "alert" audible signifies that a route or new play is now based on the coverage or alignment identified at the line.

 

[PP2]

I wonder if #21 makes a business decision here or simply “corner instincts“ get the better of him (much safer alternative being just punching the ball away)?



I wonder if BB went at him on Monday regarding this one . or he considers this risky play good complimentary football . being 1st and goal on 1yd line?

It really bugs me that when Butler ends up in a "high point" catch situation, he tries to go for the INT instead of just batting the damn ball away. It's one thing to go for an INT when the ball is at your level, but when it's being highpointed for a receiver that has 6 inches on you, just freaking bat it away or at least get a hand in the receiver's "basket."