Rewatch Thread: NE vs. Indianapolis (W5 TNF)

[Deus Irae]

In week 5, they played better than expected despite not having their #1 WR, an OL that is a work in progress, and no running backs other than Nyheim Hines who is more suited to be a passing down back.

In week 5, they were two gift picks away from being beaten by a score of something like 50-10.

 

[Kontradiction]

In week 5, they were two gift picks away from being beaten by a score of something like 50-10.

Could have even been 52-3.

 

[Angelpats]

How? He is playing inside the receiver.

Yes he is playing inside technique, but his body is positioned to break to the outside Incase the te breaks that way, which was what happened. He was in perfect position defensively but was just slower to react. Is Ebron really that fast? I remember when mccourty used to break up those passes.

 

[luuked]

He was in perfect position defensively but was just slower to react.

You can't be serious with that.

 

[Sfpat]

Not to pile on Mccourty, but on the almost 2nd Swoopes TD at the end of the game, Mccourty was caught flat-footed, allowing Swoopes to run by him. I think Devin was counting daisies or thinking about dinner plans.

 

[ALP]

put me in the group that thinks DMac played just fine, and nothing to worry about

there's a reason offenses score lol

and 2 of the 3 examples he got his hand on the ball, most likely in that case its dropped, not caught

i'm not at all worried

 

[Betterthanmost]

Can anyone isolate Hightower plays?

 

[Ring 6]

Yes he is playing inside technique, but his body is positioned to break to the outside Incase the te breaks that way, which was what happened. He was in perfect position defensively but was just slower to react. Is Ebron really that fast? I remember when mccourty used to break up those passes.

Perfect position would have been an assignment of outside leverage on an ourbreaking Route

 

[patfanken]

The final play I will post about DMac. Getting beat by Ebron for a TD in the third quarter:



Looks essentially identical to the other completion Ebron had on him. Same issue with man-to-man technique. That being said the TE chip in this play really did not help as well. Also another pitch perfect pass by Luck. Just slid it in far enough ahead of Ebron where he doesn't have to slow down too much but still has enough room to get both feet down.

This was the play that caused me to make my remarks about DMac. Your first 2 clips actually made me feel a bit better since he literally had his hand on the ball as the receiver makes the catch. They were both perfect throws.

HOWEVER, on the 3rd clip Ebron seems to out run McCourty to the outside. He doesn't look to even close the separation. This pass didn't need to be perfect....or even close to perfect.

If I were the Pats and I had Kelce coming in this week, I'd make sure I'd have DMac working hard on his man techniques all week. Physically he's the best match up for Kelce, but not the guy we saw on Thursday. He was a quarter step slow all game. And if the opposing QB is having a great day, it will be a long one for the Pats.

 

[patfanken]

actually feeling a bit better about McCourty after reading the full thread. It really was only the 3rd clip looked bad, and that was just one play out of, what, 80. So maybe in our rush to find something to explain all the passing yards the Colts got, we got caught up in the rush to find something negative to talk about.

As for all the points, when you look around league these days this kind of scoring isn't an isolated event. It could be that 24 is the new 17.

 

[RobertWeathers]

actually feeling a bit better about McCourty after reading the full thread. It really was only the 3rd clip looked bad, and that was just one play out of, what, 80. So maybe in our rush to find something to explain all the passing yards the Colts got, we got caught up in the rush to find something negative to talk about.

As for all the points, when you look around league these days this kind of scoring isn't an isolated event. It could be that 24 is the new 17.

People need to calm down about DMc losing a step. I dont ever recall him being able to shut down TEs.

There was no question he was roasted on a few plays but it was a crappy matchup to begin with.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

actually feeling a bit better about McCourty after reading the full thread. It really was only the 3rd clip looked bad, and that was just one play out of, what, 80. So maybe in our rush to find something to explain all the passing yards the Colts got, we got caught up in the rush to find something negative to talk about.

As for all the points, when you look around league these days this kind of scoring isn't an isolated event. It could be that 24 is the new 17.

Funny you say that, because check out these stats from NFL.com:


-- 3,030 points scored is the most to this point in NFL history.

-- 344 touchdowns is the most to this point in NFL history.

-- 228 touchdown passes are the most to this point in NFL history, an increase of almost 12 percent over the previous high -- 205 -- set in 2013. (Patrick Mahomes leads the league with 14 touchdown passes, and six other quarterbacks also already have at least 10.)

Teams are averaging 24 points per game, which is particularly noteworthy because scoring dropped last season below an average of 22 points for the first time since 2009. And quarterbacks are averaging 7.5 yards per attempt, which, if it stands up for the rest of the season, would be the highest since 1965 -- or before the 1970 merger.

Jags vs. Patrick Mahomes; Giants' offensive rut; Eagles' calm

 

[Angelpats]

You can't be serious with that.

It would be better if he had outside leverage but his body position on that play allowed him to trail that te without turning his body. Don’t really know how fast Ebron is but Mccourty makes a play on that ball against other tes in years past.

 

[luuked]

HOWEVER, on the 3rd clip Ebron seems to out run McCourty to the outside. He doesn't look to even close the separation. This pass didn't need to be perfect....or even close to perfect.

All I see is DMac playing with inside leverage, Ebron reading this and breaking to the outside and Luck delivering a ball that fit right into the small window before Ebron runs out of space.

Given the technique DMac played I don't agree that it is reasonable to expect him to close down in that short amount of time. Don't forget that Ebron is already in motion and DMac starts from standstill.

Now obviously a play needs to be made on this somehow and that is why I was asking people to explain to me what DMac could have done better. I am still waiting for a suggestion.

The one thing I am wondering about is why he played it with inside leverage when Harmon would have been able to help with that potentially. But when he switched to outside leverage on Swoope's TD later in the game he got beat on that because the hole between the two was big enough for Luck to fit another perfect pass through.

 

[luuked]

It would be better if he had outside leverage but his body position on that play allowed him to trail that te without turning his body. Don’t really know how fast Ebron is but Mccourty makes a play on that ball against other tes in years past.

He still needed to start from essentially a standstill against player who got chipped towards him by another Pats defender.

According to MockDraftable DMac had a 4.38 and Ebron a 4.6 on the 40y dash. Now scale that fraction of a second difference down to the little space Devin had to make up any ground on someone who was already in motion and I just don't think it is reasonable to expect it here.

The only way I see him making a play here is if the pass is bad.Is he still as fast as 8 years ago when he was drafted ? Most probably not. But I don't see any evidence of him being "too slow".

The one thing that could have made a difference on this play imo really was HT chipping Ebron into the other direction instead of pushing him towards DMac. That chip really did nothing to screw the timing between Luck and his TE up.

 

[PP2]

 

[captain stone]

Here are the two incomplete passes by Brady to Gordon:


There is so much open space around where Gordon is that I think he drifted a bit too far upfield based on where Brady threw the ball. But then again he would have needed to sit about a yard before the sticks so it was definitely also not a great throw by Brady.


Here I think it is clear that Gordon just drifted too far upfield before breaking for the comeback around sticks depth. Definitely not on Brady.

It is still a work in progress but the throw into double coverage -- as questionable as it was -- was a big sign of trust.

Yep, the first incompletion might've been on Brady, but the second one was definitely on Gordon. He was already past the sticks, and the DB had his back to him, so he HAS to know to stop and turn. Too bad, because that happened on 3rd down, forcing a punt.

In week 5, they were two gift picks away from being beaten by a score of something like 50-10.

Could have even been 52-3.

I'm thinking more like 48-18.

 

[PP2]

Lazar at it again; this time breaking down the improvements in our D, in the past 2 weeks:

Film Review: Patriots Defense Improving at All Three Levels in Last Two Weeks | CLNS Media

 

[luuked]

Howe did a dive into Gordons snap so far on the Athletic (behind paywall, free trial):

Howe: What we can learn from how the Patriots have used Josh...

I will just post the conclusion since it is against rules to post full articles:

There have been some timing issues with the routes, which is expected during the indoctrination to the new system and will likely continue throughout the season. Gordon had a play in each game when he stemmed his route and crossed directly into a defender, almost squarely into their shoulder pads. Gordon’s route depth has largely been good, but those two plays were the sign of growing pains. … He also had a play midway through the Colts game when he ran a 16-yard hitch on second-and-6 and Brady’s throw was well short. Gordon was open, so it’s worth wondering if he ran too far up the sideline before breaking off the route and threw off the timing. … And there was the slant in the first quarter against the Colts when Brady missed him low. At first glance, it seemed like a low misfire from Brady, who was visibly frustrated. But is it possible Gordon was supposed to flatten the route or stop in between two zone defenders to receive the pass? Really, it could have been a combination of each, but their timing should be better with each passing week. … Finally, Gordon’s hamstring should theoretically improve each week, which would allow him to get on the field more frequently and help the Patriots mix up his usage. The chance to practice four times this week before meeting the Chiefs will be beneficial to the whole process, but Gordon and the Patriots are already off to an impressive start.

The two routes he is writing about have been posted in this thread btw.

 

[Kontradiction]

This was the play that caused me to make my remarks about DMac. Your first 2 clips actually made me feel a bit better since he literally had his hand on the ball as the receiver makes the catch. They were both perfect throws.

HOWEVER, on the 3rd clip Ebron seems to out run McCourty to the outside. He doesn't look to even close the separation. This pass didn't need to be perfect....or even close to perfect.

If I were the Pats and I had Kelce coming in this week, I'd make sure I'd have DMac working hard on his man techniques all week. Physically he's the best match up for Kelce, but not the guy we saw on Thursday. He was a quarter step slow all game. And if the opposing QB is having a great day, it will be a long one for the Pats.

If I'm the Pats, I don't even use McCourty in that role in this game. I play him back into more of a FS role so his range can disrupt those deeper patterns to Hill or Watkins (whomever lines up on his side).