Re-watch thread ATL @ NE

[PP2]

I have never in my life heard of a 2 gap pass rush. 2 gap is a run d technique.
I would be as shocked as anything I have ever heard out of foxboro to find out that in 4th and 7 against Matt Ryan we told our DE to hang out, not worry about pressure and play contain in case he tries to leave the pocket.
I’m not sure what the film will show regarding what his assignment was.

Controlled rushing is not straight up one-gap rushing which is what you're probably thinking of. There are such things as two-gapping DE's that defend against the pass and run. Think of the Indian front (vs. the Outlaw or 33 front). We were probably defending against the possibility of a scramble if a pass play broke down.

Anyway we are getting into a debate which is cluttering up this thread and there's already been a mod warning so I'm not going to continue this, since you'll just move the goalposts all the way to China.

We'll see what the tape says.

 

[Ring 6]

Controlled rushing is not straight up one-gap rushing which is what you're probably thinking of. There are such things as two-gapping DE's that defend against the pass and run. Think of the Indian front (vs. the Outlaw or 33 front). We were probably defending against the possibility of a scramble if a pass play broke down.

2 gap isn’t a position it’s a run defense technique.
I cannot fathom that we would tell the de to defend against a scramble instead of trying to pressure the qb vs Matt Ryan on 4th and 7.

Anyway we are getting into a debate which is cluttering up this thread and there's already been a mod warning so I'm not going to continue this, since you'll just move the goalposts all the way to China.

We'll see what the tape says.

Yeah threads won’t get clogged when you throw in bs comments like that.
The film isn’t going to tell anyone what his duties were on that play.

I agree not worth discussing further because we are in an area of discussing something that just isn’t realistically going to be called.

 

[PP2]

2 gap isn’t a position it’s a run defense technique.
I cannot fathom that we would tell the de to defend against a scramble instead of trying to pressure the qb vs Matt Ryan on 4th and 7.


Yeah threads won’t get clogged when you throw in bs comments like that.
The film isn’t going to tell anyone what his duties were on that play.

I agree not worth discussing further because we are in an area of discussing something that just isn’t realistically going to be called.

Wrong.

Two gapping is neither a position or strictly limited to run defense, it's a defensive philosophy where as a lineman, you are responsible for both sides to you, rather than just one, and so you are more concerned with eating up blocks or jamming, than penetrating because in two-gap schemes the backers traditionally make the plays, whether closing holes on run plays or rushing the passer on pass plays (if not dropping into coverage). And yes, you can technically rush and still maintain responsibility on both sides. Ninko did it many times on the edge and he was pretty good at it.

If I were you, I'd just dial it down because you're just endlessly debating with several posters in this thread.

 

[reflexblue]

I'm not sure what I'm seeing either. It's just a gray box.

Looks like all 22 were lost in a fog

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Grady almost took out Thuney's leg

 

[skinnydog]

If you're looking at the replay you could ask if Brady's throw was too low and too far to the right. But if this was a called curl into the gap of the zone coverage then it was a good throw and catch. Tough to tell which it was without knowing what the call was. Either way "First Down!"

Well it sure looks like the route was a curl into the gap. Brady releases the ball as Cooks is just crossing the number 30 on the field and Cooks back is entirely to Brady. About 5 yards later Cooks looks back to his right and the ball is on the way already and almost there. Cooks catches the ball about 5 yards later. Looks like Brady knew exactly where and when Cooks would turn back to look for the ball. Also looks like Brady intentionally threw it to Cooks inside shoulder and with a Safety in the middle, Brady threw it low to make it more difficult for the safety to make a play on the ball (and safer for Cooks). Looks like they are on exactly the same page on this completion.

 

[skinnydog]

I think Tom screwed up. He should have thrown a bomb towards the sidelines. Would have been a bigger gain if not a TD

Might be that Cooks and TB12 aren't quite there with the non-verbal communication.

You may be right about a bomb down the sideline being successful, but I don't see that Tom screwed up. It looks like he and Cooks read the same route at the snap. freeze the video just as Brady releases the ball. Cooks is just past the #30 on the field with his back to Brady. So Brady is counting on Cooks curling into the soft spot in the zone. Cooks essentially does that and about 5 yards later with the ball most of the way, Cooks turns to look back over his right shoulder the ball. A few more steps and the ball is in his arms. It appears that the read at the snap of the ball was that the Safety would be getting over to the sideline to take away the deep ball. To me based on when Brady releases the Ball and where and when and how Cooks turns to look for the ball they both read the route the same. As it turns out, the safety may have been slow to get over and a deep pass would have worked, but I love that Cooks and Brady seem to be in sync on this play.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

 

[skinnydog]

My point is Tom should have called a 'go" but he didn't b/c he and Cooks aren't on that wavelength yet.

My impression is that tom didn't call anything, he and Cooks read the coverage at the line, saw it was zone coverage, both saw the slight shift in the zone to the right and read the same route.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Could have been set this way but a chip on Vic would have been nice.

Explodes with 3 strides. Goes into a long arm but almost rolls into a spin. Could have been a better ice pick but he got the job done.

 

[Ring 6]

Wrong.

Two gapping is neither a position or strictly limited to run defense, it's a defensive philosophy where as a lineman, you are responsible for both sides to you, rather than just one, and so you are more concerned with eating up blocks or jamming, than penetrating because in two-gap schemes the backers traditionally make the plays, whether closing holes on run plays or rushing the passer on pass plays (if not dropping into coverage). And yes, you can technically rush and still maintain responsibility on both sides. Ninko did it many times on the edge and he was pretty good at it.

If I were you, I'd just dial it down because you're just endlessly debating with several posters in this thread.

2 gap is a run defense technique. Time to move on from this.

 

[Tony2046]

We'll see when Tony posts the clip. I'm going to err on the side of the call being conservative- i.e., a controlled rush in two gap tech where he is ready to seal the edge if necessary. This is something Ninko was pretty good at.

We've had a serious problem with plays that end up being QB keepers, all season long, so I don't think it's a straight up rush.

I don't think you can see the actual hold but you can see Marsh trying to get away from the Offensive lineman. He is pulling away or moving backwards which should be a clean release.

I tried to find the two best angles.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You may be right about a bomb down the sideline being successful, but I don't see that Tom screwed up. It looks like he and Cooks read the same route at the snap. freeze the video just as Brady releases the ball. Cooks is just past the #30 on the field with his back to Brady. So Brady is counting on Cooks curling into the soft spot in the zone. Cooks essentially does that and about 5 yards later with the ball most of the way, Cooks turns to look back over his right shoulder the ball. A few more steps and the ball is in his arms. It appears that the read at the snap of the ball was that the Safety would be getting over to the sideline to take away the deep ball. To me based on when Brady releases the Ball and where and when and how Cooks turns to look for the ball they both read the route the same. As it turns out, the safety may have been slow to get over and a deep pass would have worked, but I love that Cooks and Brady seem to be in sync on this play.

Saying Tom screwed up was harsh

My intent was to call out that they didn't take advantage of the bigger opportunity on that play.

 

[RobertWeathers]

My impression is that tom didn't call anything, he and Cooks read the coverage at the line, saw it was zone coverage, both saw the slight shift in the zone to the right and read the same route.

Agree. That is exactly what they saw. What they didn't see is the corner post to the left sideline

 

[luuked]

I don't think you can see the actual hold but you can see Marsh trying to get away from the Offensive lineman. He is pulling away or moving backwards which should be a clean release.

I tried to find the two best angles.

The real issue I see on this play is Marsh taking those steps to the inside after the initial contact with the lineman. That was totally unnecessary especially with Wise being already in the backfield fighting the tackle pretty close to Ryan.

If Marsh maintains outside leverage Ryan will have to either throw soon or try a run inside where there were considerably more bodies than on the outside where there are none:

 

[long distance]

lol, #23 makes a business decision on that lead block by Gronk hahahah

Can you even imagine being that guy in that exact moment in time.. and how terrifying it must be to see Gronk running with a full set of steam, locked eyes as he barrels down on you

I wonder if #21 makes a business decision here or simply “corner instincts“ get the better of him (much safer alternative being just punching the ball away)?



I wonder if BB went at him on Monday regarding this one . or he considers this risky play good complimentary football . being 1st and goal on 1yd line?

 

[luuked]

I wonder if #21 makes a business decision here or simply “corner instincts“ get the better of him (much safer alternative being just punching the ball away)?



I wonder if BB went at him on Monday regarding this one . or he considers this risky play good complimentary football . being 1st and goal on 1yd line?

I think he made the right play in this situation. This is an INT 8 out of 10 times. Obviously if this is third down it might be a different situation but you already alluded to that.

Apart from Julio how many players will be able to take that ball away from a CB in this situation ?

 

[luuked]

The emphasis should be on generally more coverage duties at LDE than at RDE. Something that some people here have been hammering through the offseason and before FA and the draft.

 

[Tony2046]

The real issue I see on this play is Marsh taking those steps to the inside after the initial contact with the lineman. That was totally unnecessary especially with Wise being already in the backfield fighting the tackle pretty close to Ryan.

If Marsh maintains outside leverage Ryan will have to either throw soon or try a run inside where there were considerably more bodies than on the outside where there are none:

Here are my thoughts:

1. I'm not sure if Marsh or anyone is capable of knowing what a player on the other side of the line is doing.
2. Part of the reason Marsh lost edge containment was that he was held. He took an initial step towards the inside gap but moved back to the outside when Ryan started to scramble.
3. The step to the inside was necessary to close the inside running lane imo.
4. The ref wasn't going to call anything on that play apparently.

Hands to the face? Marsh's head snaps back during the play.


Marsh was protecting both gaps. His move to the inside closed that gap.



This is when Marsh attempts to move to the outside. He is being held. There is no doubt on this.


Still being held.