Report: Browns and 1st rounder for Garappollo (Maybe Yes or No or Who Knows)EDIT

[Nunchucks]

How is any of this denial. The entire JG situation has been discussed in detail until the end and BB gave a very clear press conference about it. They rode it out as long as possible, exhausting all options to keeping it going but then got to the point where they had to do something otherwise there would have been no compensation (no a imaginary comp pick at the end of the third round that might end up in Foxboro a year late is not the same).

JG had all the leverage in this situation. He could essentially dictate to which teams he would go by saying via Don Yee where he would sign the franchise tag and where not. If you hear from a players agent already ahead that there will be a franchise tag hold out coming I am sure you will not be willing to pay the 4th overall pick of the draft.

Similarly the team didnt have a way to make any other team believe that franchising JG was an option this offseason so there really was also not much leverage there.

I dont understand how dense a person must be to not understand those very fundamental things. Nothing here is complicated or difficult to understand. Jesus..

I semi-buy the franchise argument, but 25+ million for a year of work is hard to pass up. The Browns could be competitive with a QB like Jimmy.

 

[FourierSeries]

Thank you for providing some substance to this conversation.

You're doing such a marvelous job of providing substance and rational thought to the discussion, such as claiming that because you attend Patriots games you automatically know the inner workings of the Patriots organization, that I didn't want to interfere with your brilliant points.

If only you were this team's GM, perhaps they could have achieved some success by now.

 

[luuked]

I semi-buy the franchise argument, but 25+ million for a year of work is hard to pass up. The Browns could be competitive with a QB like Jimmy.

The point being that the 4th pick of the draft (or any top 15 first round pick really) is only worth it if you can close a long term contract.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Those listed rationalizations are terrible.

1) The Browns are a difficult organization to deal with...give me a break, a first round pick plus means you suck it up to make your team better. Belichick signed Albert Haynesworth because it might make the team better. Just stop.

2) He wanted insurance in case Brady sucked or got hurt - another terrible argument. He traded Jummy in the middle of the season, proving that the argument was flawed. And to expect Brady to not be ready this season...really? We all know Brady is the GOAT for a reason.

Those are the top two rationalizations and they just are bad.

Do you watch the NFL? Yes, the Browns are known dumpster fire. Also, BB was not wanting to destroy the kid's career by sending him there for 30 more draft slots.

Get it?

It's technically bad enough they've sat on his situation because he was ready to go last year, IMO.

The league's tv ratings have plunged for numerous reasons like Goodell cheating and lying in federal courts, the baggage of just trying to get through an NFL season, amongst other things.....But, another reason is the product is weak, at its weakest since probably 1990, before the concept of the Cap Era even came into being as a way to strengthen the league.

So, yes, 90% of the league is led by moron, greedy and lazy owners and bad GMs, because those LAZY, cheating owners, HIRED that GM.

Get it?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Those listed rationalizations are terrible.

1) The Browns are a difficult organization to deal with...give me a break, a first round pick plus means you suck it up to make your team better. Belichick signed Albert Haynesworth because it might make the team better. Just stop.

Thats not how the world works, son.

Teams do deals with teams they can trust. Teams do deals with each other when there is confidence they aren't playing games. There is documented proof the Browns football ops team cannot execute trades in a timely manner (see Cin/AJ Mccarran). It is also documented that the reneged on a verbal conditions with DEN in the Joe Thomas deal.

You refuse to believe the 1st rd pick offered is a hoax and a formal offer was made when BB was not taking calls. You chose to believe a 1-31 GM over a 5 time Super Bowl GM. Pathetic and trollish.

2) He wanted insurance in case Brady sucked or got hurt - another terrible argument. He traded Jummy in the middle of the season, proving that the argument was flawed. And to expect Brady to not be ready this season...really? We all know Brady is the GOAT for a reason.

He wanted to exhaust all possibilities to extend jimmy and ensure Tom did not break down. He took it to the 11th hour.

Those are the top two rationalizations and they just are bad.

They are bad because you don't like them.

Are you a Garrapolite by chance?

 

[Nunchucks]

That there were 1st round picks on the table is not a fact.
Following the team closely and going to games doesn’t mean you have knowledge of what was it wasnt offered .

This is what you deniers need to believe, just like I need to believe that there was a first round pick on the table.

We know that Cleveland reporters were saying the Browns were willing to offer a first round pick. We know that Schefter reported the Patriots required at least 2 first round picks...or would not even entertain trade offers.

We know this to be true. Which makes more sense? Belichick did not even listen to trade offers because he wanted to try and sign Jimmy to a bridge deal. Or that Belichick wanted to keep Jimmy for half a season as insurance, trade Jacoby, and then trade Jimmy for a second round pick at the deadline.

I mean, you are choosing door number 2. I cannot believe you think that is the optimal option.

 

[Deus Irae]

This is what you deniers need to believe, just like I need to believe that there was a first round pick on the table.

We know that Cleveland reporters were saying the Browns were willing to offer a first round pick. We know that Schefter reported the Patriots required at least 2 first round picks...or would not even entertain trade offers.

We know this to be true. Which makes more sense? Belichick did not even listen to trade offers because he wanted to try and sign Jimmy to a bridge deal. Or that Belichick wanted to keep Jimmy for half a season as insurance, trade Jacoby, and then trade Jimmy for a second round pick at the deadline.

I mean, you are choosing door number 2. I cannot believe you think that is the optimal option.

You're talking out of your backside rather than just acknowledging that we don't know the context, and can't really evaluate the actual deal as a result, and it's making you look foolish. It's really that simple.

Stop digging the freakin' hole, already.

 

[Ring 6]

You do realize that the GM is just corroborating stories were heard prior to the draft, this isn't new information.

The gm who was fired because he couldn’t find a qb is confirming unsubstantiated rumors that he wanted to get the QBs who went on to play well but B.B. wouldn’t let him. Yeah sure.

This is what you deniers need to believe, just like I need to believe that there was a first round pick on the table.

Clearly you are not objective here.

We know that Cleveland reporters were saying the Browns were willing to offer a first round pick. We know that Schefter reported the Patriots required at least 2 first round picks...or would not even entertain trade offers.

Reports by sportswriters of what they think someone would offer or take in a trade are gossip not fact.
Do you seriously think when trades are negotiated the teams bring in reporters and tell them how much they are willing to offer or take? That’s like playing poker while showing your cards.

We know this to be true.

No that is the point, we don’t.
Do we know it to be true that brady threw a temper tantrum over patriot of the week, Goodell had a long meeting with belichick last week, and kraft and B.B. had a half day meeting about jimmy?

Which makes more sense? Belichick did not even listen to trade offers because he wanted to try and sign Jimmy to a bridge deal. Or that Belichick wanted to keep Jimmy for half a season as insurance, trade Jacoby, and then trade Jimmy for a second round pick at the deadline.

They aren’t mutually exclusive. You also are assuming he knew what trade value would be later.

I mean, you are choosing door number 2. I cannot believe you think that is the optimal option.

Trading today and having no viable insurance policy or waiting to trade if the insurance policy isn’t needed is a logical decision.
“I’ll pass up a 1 because I know I’ll get a 2 in 6 months” is a fantasy land thought process that you literally made up.

 

[JMC00]

If you are using "4th overall pick" in your argument as to why Belichick screwed up then it's a terrible argument.

Texans were 3-4 and 2 of the Ls were close losses @ NE and @SEA and Watson hadn't torn his ACL yet.

So for arguments sake say even if the browns did call, Belichick wasn't looking at it as a top 4 pick, he would have been looked at the worst case scenario for the pick, not the best, which would have been a playoff spot draft pick because with Watson the Texans were definitely a playoff contender.

49ers worst case was top 10. There was also the part where 49ers had something the
Pats deemed valuable which was a backup QB who knows the system. Which i'm sure some of you don't think that matters but getting a QB off the streets mid-season and having him learn the system is just something a team with SB aspirations doesn't need to deal with. Granted he wasn't included in the trade but he was released so the Pats could pick him up.

Top of the 2nd round pick + Hoyer

vs

Bottom 1st round pick


That's what Belichick was looking at if hypothetically the browns did call and offer the Houston pick

 

[Ring 6]

If you are using "4th overall pick" in your argument as to why Belichick screwed up then it's a terrible argument.

Texans were 3-4 and 2 of the Ls were close losses @ NE and @SEA and Watson hadn't torn his ACL yet.

So for arguments sake say even if the browns did call, Belichick wasn't looking at it as a top 4 pick, he would have been looked at the worst case scenario for the pick, not the best, which would have been a playoff spot draft pick because with Watson the Texans were definitely a playoff contender.

49ers worst case was top 10. There was also the part where 49ers had something the
Pats deemed valuable which was a backup QB who knows the system. Which i'm sure some of you don't think that matters but getting a QB off the streets mid-season and having him learn the system is just something a team with SB aspirations doesn't need to deal with. Granted he wasn't included in the trade but he was released so the Pats could pick him up.

Top of the 2nd round pick + Hoyer

vs

Bottom 1st round pick


That's what Belichick was looking at if hypothetically the browns did call and offer the Houston pick

Stop. There is nothing salacious in analyzing things as they were. Can’t yuu learn to make wild assumptions and then criticize everyone involved as if they were facts?
How long have you been on this board? Seems like you haven’t learned anything yet.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Thats not how the world works, son.

Teams do deals with teams they can trust. Teams do deals with each other when there is confidence they aren't playing games. There is documented proof the Browns football ops team cannot execute trades in a timely manner (see Cin/AJ Mccarran). It is also documented that the reneged on a verbal conditions with DEN in the Joe Thomas deal.

This needs to be repeated over and over.

It's like the Nigerian Prince promising you millions of dollars. Yes, he's made you an incredibly generous offer! But can he actually back it up?

It's clear BB did not want to deal with the **** show that passes for a FO in Cleveland. It doesn't even matter if Sashi offered the #1 pick overall, BB didn't believe in him or his ability to get the deal done. Sashi could say he's offering both #1s, a couple of #2s, $50M, whatever, but it's clear BB didn't trust his word and didn't find him to be credible.

So talking about what Sashi may or may not have offered is irrelevant if BB didn't have any faith in his word or credibility.

 

[RobertWeathers]

This needs to be repeated over and over.

It's like the Nigerian Prince promising you millions of dollars. Yes, he's made you an incredibly generous offer! But can he actually back it up?

It's clear BB did not want to deal with the **** show that passes for a FO in Cleveland. It doesn't even matter if Sashi offered the #1 pick overall, BB didn't believe in him or his ability to get the deal done. Sashi could say he's offering both #1s, a couple of #2s, $50M, whatever, but it's clear BB didn't trust his word and didn't find him to be credible.

So talking about what Sashi may or may not have offered is irrelevant if BB didn't have any faith in his word or credibility.

Exactly. For sake of the discussion, lets say the Browns genuinely wanted to offer a 1st rd pick. BB was not picking up the phone so he never fielded an offer. He doesn't even want to start the conversation and lead people on. Thats ethical, IMO. John Lynch, who seems like a stand-up guy is on record as saying he made a push for Jimmy in the spring and BB told him he was not taking offers for Jimmy. Even Schefter said this as well.

This what Lynch said according to Jay Glazer (who I think is accurate most of the time and does a good job.)

According to Fox Sports' Jay Glazer, when 49ers GM John Lynch attempted to acquire Jimmy Garoppolo from the Patriots this offseason and was turned down, he then asked Bill Belichick about the availability of Tom Brady.

“So Lynch calls back," Glazer said. "‘Garoppolo’s off limits. Will you trade us Tom Brady?’ Belichick said, ‘What did you just ask me?’ [Lynch said>, ‘I’m asking would you trade us Tom Brady? You said Garoppolo’s off limits.’ He goes, ‘Did you just ask me if you’d trade Tom Brady … Did you just ask me if I’d trade the greatest quarterback of all time?’"

So was Sashi willing to give up a 1st rounder? Maybe. Was that swaying Bill's decision not to move Jimmy? Nope. Not CLE not anyone. He was keeping Jimmy for as long as he could in the hopes of trying to get him to sign a bridge deal or in case TB12 got hurt or "fell off the cliff". When neither one of those things happened, he did what he needed to do which was move Jimmy.

I really don't understand why people think this is some kind of vast conspiracy?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Adding more fuel to the fire (why not) - Hurley thinks there’s a chance Jimmy G signs with NE down the road.

Here's One Theory Why Belichick Didn't Call Browns About Garoppolo

 

[Jackson 2]

Adding more fuel to the fire (why not) - Hurley thinks there’s a chance Jimmy G signs with NE down the road.

Here's One Theory Why Belichick Didn't Call Browns About Garoppolo

That might be the event that would put ***hats like Shank, Borges, Felger and Volin in the ground. Not gonna happen, but good god it would be spectacular.

 

[luuked]

Adding more fuel to the fire (why not) - Hurley thinks there’s a chance Jimmy G signs with NE down the road.

Here's One Theory Why Belichick Didn't Call Browns About Garoppolo

There is also a chance that I will step through a door that sends me to a parallel universe where Peyton's forehead is 20x larger. Both not particularly probable..

 

[Nunchucks]

Can you please find some of these stories? I know there were lots of rumors and reporters’ opinions, but I don’t remember seeing any worthwhile reports and I can’t find any on Google right now.

Browns reportedly rejected by Patriots after trying to trade for Jimmy Garoppolo again

This is one of many stories that were run leading up to and just after the draft. The 12th pick in the draft was constantly being floated as a starting point.

For what feels like probably the 50th time this offseason, the Cleveland Browns attempted to acquire Jimmy Garopplo from the New England Patriots, this time trying to make a move while the 2017 NFL Draft clock was moving.

 

[Sciz]

Browns reportedly rejected by Patriots after trying to trade for Jimmy Garoppolo again

This is one of many stories that were run leading up to and just after the draft. The 12th pick in the draft was constantly being floated as a starting point.

Yes, the 12th pick was the subject of many rumors and opinion pieces. Who ever reported that the Browns actually offered it?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Browns reportedly rejected by Patriots after trying to trade for Jimmy Garoppolo again

This is one of many stories that were run leading up to and just after the draft. The 12th pick in the draft was constantly being floated as a starting point.

Yes and Mary Cabot Lodge of the CPD was reporting the same thing. Sashi fed her that because Bill was sending him right to voice mail or his junk folder.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Normally, I don't pay much attention to these types of threads but once in a while I check them out to see what the pulse of the fanbase is.

My 2 cents, and that's all it's worth, is that I don't care if BB traded Jimmy for a box of fruit loops. The guy's brought my team to 7 Super Bowls over 18 years. If he says it's okay, I'm okay. I'm sticking with him and if you think any other GM/coach could do a better job, then let's see if there aren't 31 teams out there who would open the vault for him.

Any news that implies chinks in the armor, is going to be met with a defense by the fans and widespread rejoicing and blind belief by those who are looking for it. It gets both sides all riled up. Report everything going well and only the Patriots fans would care. Report the same thing for a team like Jax or even the Steelers, and you get a mild response. Report it on the Patriots, and you get endless speculation and blind belief that it must be true.

I've already give this too much time so I'll leave it at this, even if it's true, I'm okay a mistake here and there because I know for sure, there are 31 teams that want it to be true.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Browns reportedly rejected by Patriots after trying to trade for Jimmy Garoppolo again

This is one of many stories that were run leading up to and just after the draft. The 12th pick in the draft was constantly being floated as a starting point.

And regarding those trade offers during the 2017 draft season, there's this from Ian Rapoport:



He's not Adam Schefter but has proven to be reasonably accurate with his scoops. Moreso than Seth Withersham.