Revisiting the Browns and Jimmy Garoppolo

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Lots of debate here last off-season about whether or not you (as the Browns) would have traded the first overall pick for JG. The argument (which many supported) was that the Browns should have been willing to give up #1 and more, while detractors said it would be crazy for them them to trade away the top pick in the draft for an “unknown commodity” and instead should draft the best college kid available and/or a college quarterback (I know, it makes no sense, so maybe you can guess my opinion at the time). It’s hard to say exactly what Cleveland did offer, but if you look at most of the reports, it was probably their 2017 second round pick and a little more, or possibly (I believe one report) was they offered their other 2017 (mid) first round pick. It was reported that the first overall pick was a non-starter for the Browns in negotiations.

Just curious what, had the 49ers not locked him up and had decided to trade him instead to Cleveland at the end of this season, what the price would be. I think the starting point for a trade woukd need to be Cleveland’s 2018 1st AND 4th overall picks, and even then the 49ers probably wouldn’t do it.

 

[signbabybrady]

I've gotten past the what we could of got last April because BB was not trading him then and did not entertain talks prior to the draft end of story there.

The real question becomes when did he decide to shop him prior to the deadline and were all interested teams given a chance to outbid the others.

It seems like BB refused to trade him for anything until he decided to accept a decent but not necessarily top deal from the first call he did make after finally shopping him.

 

[luuked]

The issue is that if never got traded he would have never started those 5-6 games and therefore the national narrative would be that he might as well be another Cassel. There were people preferring McCarron to JG last offseason.

It is pointless to build up imaginary draft scenarios when your opinion of that player is totally biased by hindsight.

 

[archstanton543]

Just curious what, had the 49ers not locked him up and had decided to trade him instead to Cleveland at the end of this season, what the price would be. I think the starting point for a trade woukd need to be Cleveland’s 2018 1st AND 4th overall picks, and even then the 49ers probably wouldn’t do it.

The 49'ers couldn't trade Jimmy G at the end of the season. First, it's way past the trading deadline for the 2017 season. Second, if they didn't sign him to a new contract before the new league year, Jimmy becomes a free agent. There's no scenario where San Fran could have traded Jimmy G to any team let alone the Browns.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The 49'ers couldn't trade Jimmy G at the end of the season. First, it's way past the trading deadline for the 2017 season. Second, if they didn't sign him to a new contract before the new league year, Jimmy becomes a free agent. There's no scenario where San Fran could have traded Jimmy G to any team let alone the Browns.

I think you are missing the point. Check that, I know you are missing the point.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The issue is that if never got traded he would have never started those 5-6 games and therefore the national narrative would be that he might as well be another Cassel. There were people preferring McCarron to JG last offseason.

It is pointless to build up imaginary draft scenarios when your opinion of that player is totally biased by hindsight.

Those opinions last off-season included the built-in risk that he wasn’t as good as he appeared in limited action.

 

[maust]

I think the starting point for a trade woukd need to be Cleveland’s 2018 1st AND 4th overall picks, and even then the 49ers probably wouldn’t do it.

Interesting point that last part. SF has found their 'face' and I don't think the Browns could come up with anything that would make them part with him. Garoppolo has become integral to their entire way forward not just on the field but just as importantly off of it. On another note thanks for looking at it from a different perspective and not revisiting the whole pointless Pats end of it. Hopefully others will stay on topic with it.

 

[Sciz]

I’ve only seen one worthwhile report on the Browns’ offseason offer, and it wasn’t anywhere near #1 overall.



(Which of course would mean the second first was also not in play.)

 

[Soliel]

I doubt San Fran would part with jimmy for any kind of draft picks reguardless of what anyone offered. I didn’t like our compensation for him but I do understand the whole leverage thing. Finally, I’m glad he is in San Fran rather than Cleveland or New York. Buffalo or somewhere would be bad.

 

[luuked]

Those opinions last off-season included the built-in risk that he wasn’t as good as he appeared in limited action.

The point is that every discussion about his value now will be biased based on the additional info we have.

 

[IcyPatriot]

The point is that every discussion about his value now will be biased based on the additional info we have.

Agreed ...
At the time he was a player with decent potential who was hurt twice in limited playing time.
Maybe we could have grabbed an extra 3rd based on results ... who knows.
Too easily assumed that the 49'ers got a great deal ... 1 or 2 years from now the deal will show it's value + or - .

A better debate which is totally hindsight I read a few days back - if we had drafted Jimmy in round 1 instead of the Easley reach.

 

[oldrover]

Lots of debate here last off-season about whether or not you (as the Browns) would have traded the first overall pick for JG. The argument (which many supported) was that the Browns should have been willing to give up #1 and more, while detractors said it would be crazy for them them to trade away the top pick in the draft for an “unknown commodity” and instead should draft the best college kid available and/or a college quarterback (I know, it makes no sense, so maybe you can guess my opinion at the time). It’s hard to say exactly what Cleveland did offer, but if you look at most of the reports, it was probably their 2017 second round pick and a little more, or possibly (I believe one report) was they offered their other 2017 (mid) first round pick. It was reported that the first overall pick was a non-starter for the Browns in negotiations.

Just curious what, had the 49ers not locked him up and had decided to trade him instead to Cleveland at the end of this season, what the price would be. I think the starting point for a trade woukd need to be Cleveland’s 2018 1st AND 4th overall picks, and even then the 49ers probably wouldn’t do it.

https://imgflip.com/gifgenerator

 

[Simpelton]

I'm probably in the minority here, but I honestly don't think the Browns are a quarterback away from doing useful things.

One thing that was quite notable about the 49ers at the time of the trade was the number of times they cane up just short under Hoyer and then Beathard. The young core of the team was struggling to learn how to win and needed an offensive leader to put them over the top.

I honestly don't think the trade works out in anywhere near the same way for Cleveland... my sense of Cleveland is that their coaching isn't nearly as good, their core isn't nearly as cohesive and that the team from owner on down has no idea how to win. Bottom line, I don't get the sense that the Cleveland Browns know what they're doing and if they'd gotten Jimmy G they would have found a way to squander him..

The 49ers by contrast seemed to have a fair idea how to win, but were lacking skill in key areas including QB. Their coach and GM know what they're doing, and their plan was getting close to producing results under Beathard. Jimmy G was the piece that put them over the top but they were actually close to turning it around without him.

 

[Simpelton]

That being the case, if I woke up one morning and suddenly I was cursed with having to GM the browns,I'm not even sure I'd be looking to draft a quarterback in this offseason.

Honestly my top priority this offseason would be the vest running back I could get my hands on, followed by the best possible upgrade at center and an upgrade at TE1 or TE2 that knows how to block. The biggest thing the Browns need right now is vastly improved ability to block for their quarterback and RB. I'd probably look in FA for the center, a veteran snapper who can call audibles and anchor the run blocking game would make a massive difference. If a good young fullback can be secured, so much the better.

They've got good receivers and their quarterback could improve significantly with experience and better protection, especially if the weight of the offense was shifted towards the running game. That means that those positions are the priorities, at least on offense -- RB, TE1/TE2, FB, veteran C (in no particular order)

That and a good young defensive minded coach would move the Browns a long way towards respectability. I'd actually go sniffing around the Jaguars' DC Todd Wash to see if he was interested in moving up. He's done some good work with the Hawks and Jags, teams that made the most of very talented defenses and that's exactly what the Browns need.

 

[rochrist]

Agreed ...
At the time he was a player with decent potential who was hurt twice in limited playing time.
Maybe we could have grabbed an extra 3rd based on results ... who knows.
Too easily assumed that the 49'ers got a great deal ... 1 or 2 years from now the deal will show it's value + or - .

A better debate which is totally hindsight I read a few days back - if we had drafted Jimmy in round 1 instead of the Easley reach.

Where do you get hurt twice?

 

[Simpelton]

Where do you get hurt twice?

He didn't. The one injury he did have was also of a kind that could literally happen to anyone

 

[primetime]

Drafting Myles Garrett was absolutely the right decision for the Browns and he looks like he's going to be a force in years to come. Garrett plus someone like McCarron is simply a more reasonably competitive team than Garoppolo alone, unless Garoppolo turns out to be a top-5 QB.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Drafting Myles Garrett was absolutely the right decision for the Browns and he looks like he's going to be a force in years to come. Garrett plus someone like McCarron is simply a more reasonably competitive team than Garoppolo alone, unless Garoppolo turns out to be a top-5 QB.

The 49ers were 1-10, added Garoppolo and won their final five games. The Browns were 0-16, and they would have been 0-16 even if Myles Garrett had played like Lawrence Taylor multiplied by Reggie White.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

The 49'ers couldn't trade Jimmy G at the end of the season. First, it's way past the trading deadline for the 2017 season. Second, if they didn't sign him to a new contract before the new league year, Jimmy becomes a free agent. There's no scenario where San Fran could have traded Jimmy G to any team let alone the Browns.

There's technically one, which falls in the gap between the end of the 2017 season and the beginning of the 2018 season: franchise Jimmy G before the official start of the new season, then trade him once the season begins.

The 49ers and Browns have a ton of cap room to facilitate this scenario.

 

[Simpelton]

The 49ers were 1-10, added Garoppolo and won their final five games. The Browns were 0-16, and they would have been 0-16 even if Myles Garrett had played like Lawrence Taylor multiplied by Reggie White.

You're right. They also would have probably been 0-16 even with Garoppolo. Because their team is in the thick of a decade-old identity crisis that they're not going to get out of until their owner stops burning the team to toe ground every 2-3 years.

The difference between the 49ers and the Browns can't be overstated. The 49ers were in danger of winding up in Browns territory, but the owners made a great choice at GM and a solid choice at head coach, and the pieces were already starting to come together before Garoppolo arrived.

THe 49ers were 1-10, but a few more bounces their way and they could have been 4-7 or 5-6. How many different games did they lose by 5 points or less this year? Anecdotally it seemed like a lot.

Point being, they were pretty close to figuring out how to win before Jimmy G ever got there. That's one of the reasons Garoppolo was able to find enough talent to go undefeated the rest of the way. In San Francisco, Jimmy was the final piece. In Cleveland, Jimmy would have been the only piece. That whole franchise is still on the fast road to nowhere, and they aren't close to figuring it out, unlike the 49ers were.

Point being, if his goal was first and foremost to do Jimmy G a solid and put him on a team that was poised to compete, Bill made a great choice.