Browns interested in trade for Garoppolo

[GodBrady]

Option "A" seems more attractive to me and it's not even close. Am I crazy? If so, what am I missing?

"Successfully started" is romanticizing. The guy doesn't even have 100 career pass attempts. This year he only attempted 63 passes! Killing it over a 63-pass sample size doesn't say much.

Jimmy's numbers on the year:
68.3 CMP%
4 TD
0 INT
7.97 Y/A
113.3 passer rating

Great numbers, but lots of players can put up gaudy numbers in small sample sizes. For example, Colin Kaepernick is a steaming pile of trash, but here were his numbers to end the year (final 3 games):
70.65 CMP%
5 TD (+1 rushing TD)
1 INT
7.2 Y/A
104.6 passer rating

Also very strong numbers.

You can't say Watson/Kizer/Trub are unproven and act like Jimmy he. He's largely an unknown as well. Working under Brady/Belichick both helps and hurts him. It's great that he has that tutelage. but there are also questions about whether he will continue to succeed in another environment.

 

[IllegalContact]

sure

Emmanual Ogbah, their 2nd 1st rounder, and a 2018 2nd rounder

with palmer looking like he's quitting, yet another team to help drive up the price

there are a huge number of really crappy starting NFL QB's

 

[varjao]

A trade for Cleveland makes too much sense, they have a ton of picks and they already signed all 14 (or close to that) rookies last year, and they looked like a semi professional football team most of the season. At a certain point they need to build a team and stop stock pilling picks, I'm saying this like talking about Cleveland as a whole, the football team, if I'm talking about Hue Jackson's perspective it's even more urgent, another year like this and he is gone.

 

[scott99]

Bottom line, we are in good shape whether Jimmy gets traded at the draft this year, or some time after that (next year's draft, etc). Or if they keep him. Teams are interested in him because, bottom line, he is a good QB. He was a great QB in college, and he hasn't shown any indication that he will be average to below average in the NFL, in fact he showed quite the opposite. Teams are realizing he's a good QB, that in my opinion has the talent to be a top 10 level QB in the NFL. He's smart, has a quick release, has not been flustered by anything in his chances to play in the NFL.

I don't see an RG III type of player (one who has a great 1st season then fizzles), I see a QB who can have a good to great NFL career. Just needs a chance. IF Cleveland wants him at this draft I hope we can get the #12 overall from them. If not, give us a ****load of 2's and 3's we can use as currency in the draft to move up or down.

 

[luuked]

Again, it's apples and oranges. Carson Wentz is a rookie, and so he is forced to sign a cheap rookie contract. After Wentz was drafted, he signed a 4-year, $27M deal, which additionally comes with a 5th-year option.

Jimmy is in the last year of his contract. Brock just signed for $72M and he's a steaming pile of garbage. Jimmy G could require something like a 5-year, $90M contract. Who knows.

So basically, if you're the Browns, you have to say something like:
- do I want Jimmy G and lock him up at 5-years, $90M, OR,
- do I want Kizer/Watson/Trubisky at 4-years, $29M + 5th year option, and have $61M extra in payroll over the next five years? $12M a year could completely cover a Terrelle Pryor extension!

Again, many of the arguments being made apply exactly to Jamie Collins. Let's say hypothetically we knew there were ongoing trade discussion for Jamie Collins earlier in the season. You would've seen posts on this board like, "Collins is an elite talent. If the Browns want him, they're going to have to pay a steep price. I wouldn't settle for anything less than a 2nd round pick. If the Browns don't want to pay that? Too bad, then you can't have him. We don't have to trade Collins, we're only going to trade him if the price is right. Belichick shouldn't settle any for anything less than we got for Chandler Jones, and he's not going to. Period."

I don't completely agree with your take here. The reason why JG might be worth the first round is that he is still under contract with a "cheap" year coming up. Whoever trades for him might be out of a draft pick but there are no major year-spanning repercussions as with e.g. signing Brock. You swing and you either hit or move on. That is a huge benefit that can't be understated.

Additionally, as others have pointed out with JG you have more of a NFL level comparison than with anyone coming out of college. Yes the sample size is small -- which is what makes all of this so tricky -- but it is still so much more telling than anything that a college QB has on tape.

Finally, on a certain level the QB salaries don't matter. If you have someone who is good enough to be there for a bit you will pay him whatever the market dictates. That is a good problem to have because without a QB you are screwed anyway. The key is to stay away from giving away too much money to people that are not worth it (e.g. Brock) which -- to bring this post full circle -- is not the case because anyone can just move on from JG with only minimal investment (draft pick + rookie salary).

 

[varjao]

Anyone saying Jimmy is not worth a 1st round pick is not paying attention to the market.

Too bad he got injured, without that shoulder injury I believe he goes 4-0 and we would be talking about a truckload of draft picks.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

"Successfully started" is romanticizing. The guy doesn't even have 100 career pass attempts. This year he only attempted 63 passes! Killing it over a 63-pass sample size doesn't say much.

Jimmy's numbers on the year:
68.3 CMP%
4 TD
0 INT
7.97 Y/A
113.3 passer rating

Great numbers, but lots of players can put up gaudy numbers in small sample sizes. For example, Colin Kaepernick is a steaming pile of trash, but here were his numbers to end the year (final 3 games):
70.65 CMP%
5 TD (+1 rushing TD)
1 INT
7.2 Y/A
104.6 passer rating

Also very strong numbers.

You can't say Watson/Kizer/Trub are unproven and act like Jimmy he. He's largely an unknown as well. Working under Brady/Belichick both helps and hurts him. It's great that he has that tutelage. but there are also questions about whether he will continue to succeed in another environment.

For $820k and a 1st round pick (which is probably going to bust anyway), it's not much of a gamble and seems like a good bet. He's performed at an NFL level. College players obviously haven't.

At least, it's less of a gamble then dumping $24M+ into a guy who has never taken a snap in the NFL. That's my point. Low cost. Potentially high reward.

Not to mention that there is plenty of buzz around Jimmy G so if you get him and hire someone like Coughlin as a HC, you have something to sell your fans.

 

[carmelo15]

Jimmy and 32 (you heard me) for SF 2nd overall and a future 4th. Than we take Allen from Bama groom Brissett for 3-4 more years.

 

[fightingirish595]

Again, it's apples and oranges. Carson Wentz is a rookie, and so he is forced to sign a cheap rookie contract. After Wentz was drafted, he signed a 4-year, $27M deal, which additionally comes with a 5th-year option.

Jimmy is in the last year of his contract. Brock just signed for $72M and he's a steaming pile of garbage. Jimmy G could require something like a 5-year, $90M contract. Who knows.

So basically, if you're the Browns, you have to say something like:
- do I want Jimmy G and lock him up at 5-years, $90M, OR,
- do I want Kizer/Watson/Trubisky at 4-years, $29M + 5th year option, and have $61M extra in payroll over the next five years? $12M a year could completely cover a Terrelle Pryor extension!

Again, many of the arguments being made apply exactly to Jamie Collins. Let's say hypothetically we knew there were ongoing trade discussion for Jamie Collins earlier in the season. You would've seen posts on this board like, "Collins is an elite talent. If the Browns want him, they're going to have to pay a steep price. I wouldn't settle for anything less than a 2nd round pick. If the Browns don't want to pay that? Too bad, then you can't have him. We don't have to trade Collins, we're only going to trade him if the price is right. Belichick shouldn't settle any for anything less than we got for Chandler Jones, and he's not going to. Period."

Totally not buying what your trying to sell. Unless of course the browns think Jimmy isn't as good as those guys. But If the browns think Jimmy is better than those guys and can be a top quarterback as soon as he gets there, on the last year of his rookie deal, they would be absolutely stupid to pass up on that even if it means giving up a lot. The trade I'm suggesting isn't Hershal walker bad. It's a fair trade. No team that knows what they are doing is taking much less of a player because he'll be significantly cheaper. Especially not a quarterback. But it all depends on the evaluation of the other quarterbacks by each team.

 

[n6249c]

Again, it's apples and oranges. Carson Wentz is a rookie, and so he is forced to sign a cheap rookie contract. After Wentz was drafted, he signed a 4-year, $27M deal, which additionally comes with a 5th-year option.

Jimmy is in the last year of his contract. Brock just signed for $72M and he's a steaming pile of garbage. Jimmy G could require something like a 5-year, $90M contract. Who knows.

So basically, if you're the Browns, you have to say something like:
- do I want Jimmy G and lock him up at 5-years, $90M, OR,
- do I want Kizer/Watson/Trubisky at 4-years, $29M + 5th year option, and have $61M extra in payroll over the next five years? $12M a year could completely cover a Terrelle Pryor extension!

Again, many of the arguments being made apply exactly to Jamie Collins. Let's say hypothetically we knew there were ongoing trade discussion for Jamie Collins earlier in the season. You would've seen posts on this board like, "Collins is an elite talent. If the Browns want him, they're going to have to pay a steep price. I wouldn't settle for anything less than a 2nd round pick. If the Browns don't want to pay that? Too bad, then you can't have him. We don't have to trade Collins, we're only going to trade him if the price is right. Belichick shouldn't settle any for anything less than we got for Chandler Jones, and he's not going to. Period."

Another possibility that could work out well for the Browns is that they get Jimmy G for this year and he has a mediocre year because he's playing behind a mediocre line so they sign him for something less than top dollar while they rebuild the O line. Or if they're going all in on him maybe they work out an extension before training camp. Either way he might not command a $90mm contract. They might think it's a good gamble to roll the dice on a potential franchise QB like that.

 

[Tuck]

I'm coming around to believe the relevant question is how much confidence BB has that Brissett can lead his team and make the plays to win. We talk about Brady's time remaining (a few years?), and Jimmy's evidence (some) and college competition (weak). Not nearly enough about Brissett's ceiling.

We haven't seen much of the kid, but for certain the coaches have. They didn't draft him for no reason at all. They didn't activate him off IR for no reason at all, either.

You're right on target. If they really wanted to keep JG and move Brady they wouldn't have drafted Brisket in MHO. Brady seems untouchable at this point which means baring some unforeseen injury, JG will be moved, the only question is when. Will somebody make a ridiculous offer and pry him away this offseason or will Bill opt to keep him for insurance on Brady next season then tag and trade him for less?

 

[n6249c]

For $820k and a 1st round pick (which is probably going to bust anyway), it's not much of a gamble and seems like a good bet. He's performed at an NFL level. College players obviously haven't.

At least, it's less of a gamble then dumping $24M+ into a guy who has never taken a snap in the NFL. That's my point. Low cost. Potentially high reward.

Not to mention that there is plenty of buzz around Jimmy G so if you get him and hire someone like Coughlin as a HC, you have something to sell your fans.

Don't even need a coaching change. Jackson gets him and an O line upgrade in Cleveland and he has something to give the fans hope.

Face it, a big part of the high draft pick circus is giving the fans of losing teams something to get excited about, and to fuel hope for the future. Picking up a hot young star on the rise is a good alternative, that's why Houston overspent so wildly for BO.

Whether the market valuation makes good sense or not isn't as much concern as what the market valuation will be, at least for a potential seller such as the Pats.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

"Successfully started" is romanticizing. The guy doesn't even have 100 career pass attempts. This year he only attempted 63 passes! Killing it over a 63-pass sample size doesn't say much.

Jimmy's numbers on the year:
68.3 CMP%
4 TD
0 INT
7.97 Y/A
113.3 passer rating

Great numbers, but lots of players can put up gaudy numbers in small sample sizes. For example, Colin Kaepernick is a steaming pile of trash, but here were his numbers to end the year (final 3 games):
70.65 CMP%
5 TD (+1 rushing TD)
1 INT
7.2 Y/A
104.6 passer rating

Also very strong numbers.

You can't say Watson/Kizer/Trub are unproven and act like Jimmy he. He's largely an unknown as well. Working under Brady/Belichick both helps and hurts him. It's great that he has that tutelage. but there are also questions about whether he will continue to succeed in another environment.

Yes, the sample size is small, but the evaluation will be based on more than just what the average fantasy football player looks at.

Each and every one of those snaps came in a complex NFL offense against real NFL defenses, which is far more than any of the 3 guys you've listed can say.

If you draft Watson, yes, you get some extra cheap years. But odds are those first few years will not be at a high level. He will need to learn a pro style offense, develop the footwork to work from under center, and throw from 3/5/7 step drops. And hopefully by year 3, Watson will be...well, Jimmy G, who also came from a spread offense and has successfully done all of those things.

IF Watson can do all of that, then you could argue his slight potential upside and potential extra cheap year or two more might offset the risk of him being a bust.

And while mentioning Jimmy's small sample size, you casually throw Mitch Trubisky's name into the conversation as an alternative? The guy has 13 starts in college! He has approximately 400 throws that matter against college competition to try to evaluate the guy. I gladly take Jimmy's 63 against NFL competition over that.

The wild card in this is Kizer. He comes from a pro style offense, and may not have the ceiling of some of the others, but his floor is probably higher. Odds are he will at least be a decent game manager type of QB at worse. But I don't even know if he'll be a 1st round pick at this point.

I know money matters. But it's not the only factor. You shrug off those 63 snaps from Jimmy, but they represent not just a QB who has played against NFL teams, but also one who has developed from a simplistic college offense to a fully-formed NFL QB. He has made the transition that many draft picks never do. You take it for granted that any draft pick can, and will do the same, but that's simply not true.

 

[fightingirish595]

Yes, the sample size is small, but the evaluation will be based on more than just what the average fantasy football player looks at.

Each and every one of those snaps came in a complex NFL offense against real NFL defenses, which is far more than any of the 3 guys you've listed can say.

If you draft Watson, yes, you get some extra cheap years. But odds are those first few years will not be at a high level. He will need to learn a pro style offense, develop the footwork to work from under center, and throw from 3/5/7 step drops. And hopefully by year 3, Watson will be...well, Jimmy G, who also came from a spread offense and has successfully done all of those things.

IF Watson can do all of that, then you could argue his slight potential upside and potential extra cheap year or two more might offset the risk of him being a bust.

And while mentioning Jimmy's small sample size, you casually throw Mitch Trubisky's name into the conversation as an alternative? The guy has 13 starts in college! He has approximately 400 throws that matter against college competition to try to evaluate the guy. I gladly take Jimmy's 63 against NFL competition over that.

The wild card in this is Kizer. He comes from a pro style offense, and may not have the ceiling of some of the others, but his floor is probably higher. Odds are he will at least be a decent game manager type of QB at worse. But I don't even know if he'll be a 1st round pick at this point.

I know money matters. But it's not the only factor. You shrug off those 63 snaps from Jimmy, but they represent not just a QB who has played against NFL teams, but also one who has developed from a simplistic college offense to a fully-formed NFL QB. He has made the transition that many draft picks never do. You take it for granted that any draft pick can, and will do the same, but that's simply not true.

Everything is right except Kizer playing in a pro style offense. He's got potential but huge project. More upside as a pocket passer than Watson in my opinion

 

[1960Pats]

The thing about the trade market is the Patriots will get what teams are prepared to pay. All it takes is one team to make a Godfather offer and for that news to spread and suddenly, you've got a bidding war.

There's one team that doesn't even require another team to get into a bidding war. Darrelle Revis had the Jets bidding against the Pats for 24 hours after the Pats had dropped out.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Everything is right except Kizer playing in a pro style offense. He's got potential but huge project. More upside as a pocket passer than Watson in my opinion

I'm not a huge college football guy, but my understanding was Kizer did have some experience with a pro style offense. But if not, then that's just another player that requires a lot of projecting.

 

[fightingirish595]

I'm not a huge college football guy, but my understanding was Kizer did have some experience with a pro style offense. But if not, then that's just another player that requires a lot of projecting.

Maybe he did but he certainly did not get much of that n Brian Kellys offense. I wish they would run a pro style. Kizer has potential. but major project. I personally think he should have stayed in school

 

[SalemPats]

The Browns have the picks and cap room it makes sense. If they give us the #12 pick/4th and next year's 2nd i think we have to make that trade

 

[patman52]

I disagree, I think the 12th pick is the minimum we would get back. Is Jimmy G worth that in a vacuum? Probably not but that is completely irrelevant. The question is what other choices do the Browns have? They are stuck in QB purgatory and their entire front office is under pressure to turn things around. They desperately need a talented young QB and will have to fight with all the other QB needy teams to get one.

They aren't going to take a QB #1 overall because nobody is worthy. It's almost guaranteed they will take Myles Garrett who is the consensus top guy in the draft. The problem for the Browns is even though this is a historically weak QB class, none of the top guys will make it to the 12th pick. So they would either have to trade up, likely into the top 6 picks to draft a QB, draft yet another developmental QB later in the draft and continue to suck while they hope they develop or sign a journeyman FA QB and likely suck while hoping the QB class is better next year and you don't win just enough games to miss out on the top QBs in 2018.

I might be a complete homer but to me Jimmy G looks like by far the best option for the Browns, even if it costs the #12 pick. They have a ton of draft capital to fill other needs and a few nice pieces where they might be able to turn things around pretty quickly. But more importantly they have no leverage to negotiate with the Pats. The other trade and free agent options are poor, the draft class is historically weak and they are desperate.

If I am Cleveland I would be thrilled to get Jimmy G for just the #12 pick. You get the top QB available (assuming Cousins goes nowhere), you get an elite blue chip prospect in Myles Garrett and you have two more high picks in the second round. I think you would be much crazier to spend a high pick on any of the QBs in this draft than trade one for Garoppolo.

Jimmy G has one year left on his deal, before he gets paid. Before I give up the 12th pick for him I will bid on Glennon, or Tyrod Taylor, for nothing while I build up my team. I disagree that the team is under pressure to win, their fans know the team sucks. They have to quit spending #1 picks on QBs.

 

[deroc5050]

This probably wouldn't work because of various circumstances but if I was the Browns and I traded for Jimmy, I would let him play out his last year and then franchise him if you want to keep him. After they franchise him they may work out a long term deal instead. I am rooting for Jimmy I think he is going to be a really good QB.