2020 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: N/A

Current Patriots Twitter Feed:
Status
Not open for further replies.

jimnance

In the Starting Line-Up
I think the issue is that the proday time is recorded and common knowledge while the patriots workout is rumor.
If I remember correctly even butler said they never told him what they timed.
I'm far from an expert on the subject so if you have a bunch of backup for this I'd accept that.
I've read it multiple places. The one that stood out to me was an interview with the Pats scout who first worked him out and recommended bringing him in for a closer look. Gotta get up at 5am, so I'll hunt for it tomorrow. But shouldn't be hard to find.
 

SammyBlueCat

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Some pretty decent athleticism among Pats CBs ...

ROWE:
6010/205 ... 4.45/40, 1.58/10yd ... 39 vert/125 lj ... 3.97 ss/6.70 3c

GILMORE:
6004/190 ... 4.40/40, 1.52/10yd ... 36 vert/123 lj ... 3.94 ss/6.61 3c

BADEMOSI:
6006/201 ... 4.39/40, 1.58/10yd ... 40 vert/125 lj ... 4.10 ss/6.96 3c


J. JONES:
5091/190 ... 4.33/40, 1.47/10yd ... 36 vert/123 lj ... 4.25 ss/7.25 3c

BUTLER:
5096/190 ... 4.62/40, 1.62/10yd ... 33.5 vert/118 lj ... 4.27 ss/7.20 3c


R. LEWIS (practice squad):
5110/192 ... 4.37/40, 1.59/10yd ... 35 vert/128 lj ... 4.34 ss/6.87 3c

Cat like quickness!
 

Ozymandias

In the Starting Line-Up
You missed the 2006 AFC championship game.

I think you mean 2005 divisional game, but this (not that) constitutes pass interference.
It was the 2006 AFCCG that @neali is referring to in which Ellis Hobbs was erroneously called for it. Nevertheless, the league had to admit then that face-guarding is not a penalty, and it still isn't, hence why Bademosi wasn't called for it last night.
 

Mack Herron

Pro Bowl Player
It was the 2006 AFCCG that @neali is referring to in which Ellis Hobbs was erroneously called for it. Nevertheless, the league had to admit then that face-guarding is not a penalty, and it still isn't, hence why Bademosi wasn't called for it last night.
The relevant PI rule:
Actions that constitute defensive pass interference include but are not limited to:

(a) Contact by a defender who is not playing the ball and such contact restricts the receiver’s opportunity to make the catch.
NFL Rules Digest: Pass Interference

Faceguarding is not illegal per se, but if a defender contacts the receiver while doing so it will draw PI.
 

Ozymandias

In the Starting Line-Up
Faceguarding is not illegal per se.
Face-guarding is not illegal, period. As was the case in the Hobbs situation - no contact was initiated and the flag was still thrown wrongly anyway. The league flat-out said afterward that the refs got it wrong, which made it even worse for the Patriots because that was one of the catalysts to the start of Colts' comeback.

A more apt example would be the Lions-Cowboys NFC wildcard game from the 2014 season in which the flag was picked up on a penalty that was initially called pass interference but was shown to be face-guarding instead. The refs got it right in that game, but failed to do so in the Patriots-Colts game.
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member
@neali is referring to in which Ellis Hobbs was erroneously called for it. Nevertheless, the league had to admit then that face-guarding is not a penalty, and it still isn't, hence why Bademosi wasn't called for it last night.[/QUOTE]
I edited my post because I mistyped. I meant to say it was clearly NOT PI
I still think you are referring to 05 in Denver with Hobbs.
 

luuked

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Wrong. The Patriots timing of Butler's 40's- all in the low to mid 4.4's we're not "haphazardly" reported. They were widely reported by well-known Patriots scouts, Matt Patricia and oh, some guy named Belichick.
I put a lot more stock in the accuracy of those times than nfldraftscout.com.
I assumed as a Pats fan, you would have read and researched this. It is well known that his pro day 40 time is an anomaly. That is not unusual.
And yes,it is a false narrative you're trying to perpetuate.
Unless you believe BB lied.

I am going with @maineman209 here. The only times you can take at face value are the ones that were made in official settings. Everything else is hearsay. He definitely looks faster than he was timed but that doesnt mean there is independent evidence of that.

Now whether any of this is relevant in general is a different question because e.g. I certainly think that most of those combine tests should be done with the pads (or at least shells) on as some players slow down more than others wearing them. But either way your are perpetuating claims that are not verifiable.
 

PatsBoy12

Pro Bowl Player
Who is Bademosi???

You mean Badassmosi :cool::D

He's been solid and nowhere near the liability some of us feared he'd be.

Between him and Jonathan Jones, our cornerback depth has been surprisingly good!
I have been so impressed with Jonathan Jones in the little playing time he's gotten this season. Sans a few plays, his coverage is always tight to the receiver, he gets his head around and he's competitive at the point of the catch. He looks a lot like Butler did early in the 2014 season when he was still little known.
 

supafly

Eff you, Shula
PatsFans.com Supporter
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
I still think you are referring to 05 in Denver with Hobbs.
Nah, the 2006 AFCCG at Indy is definitely what they’re thinking of. We had the 21-3 lead and Hobbs had great coverage on the throw. Pretty sure it was a longer throwin the end zone. The league/refs issued a formal “apology” after the game was played, like it mattered. That call was a big reason why we didn’t smash the Bears in a SB rematch that year. It was an enormous call.

Hobbs also had 220 yards worth of returns in that game. He was playing well.
 

primetime

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Nah, the 2006 AFCCG at Indy is definitely what they’re thinking of. We had the 21-3 lead and Hobbs had great coverage on the throw. Pretty sure it was a longer throwin the end zone. The league/refs issued a formal “apology” after the game was played, like it mattered. That call was a big reason why we didn’t smash the Bears in a SB rematch that year. It was an enormous call.

Hobbs also had 220 yards worth of returns in that game. He was playing well.

It was a little more than midway through the 3rd in the end zone for 18 yards, next play Klecko scored and they tied it up with a 2pt. It sucked but wasn't the swing you remember; the score was 21-13 at the time and it was 2nd and 7 inside the red zone.

As penalties go, the big sequence was late in the 2nd, up 21-3, deep in Colts territory, 3rd and 6, and Brown got an OPI and then Watson illegal motion and 3rd and 6 became 3rd and 21, Brady was sacked, and they went from another score to punting. Colts went down the field and made it 21-6 at the half.
 
Last edited:

PatsBoy12

Pro Bowl Player
Nah, the 2006 AFCCG at Indy is definitely what they’re thinking of. We had the 21-3 lead and Hobbs had great coverage on the throw. Pretty sure it was a longer throwin the end zone. The league/refs issued a formal “apology” after the game was played, like it mattered. That call was a big reason why we didn’t smash the Bears in a SB rematch that year. It was an enormous call.

Hobbs also had 220 yards worth of returns in that game. He was playing well.
Yeah, I really think the call was the real turning point in that game.
 

condon84

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Impressed with his willingness to come up and make tackles. On top of actually making the tackle.
 

supafly

Eff you, Shula
PatsFans.com Supporter
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
It was a little more than midway through the 3rd in the end zone for 18 yards, next play Klecko scored and they tied it up with a 2pt. It sucked but wasn't the swing you remember; the score was 21-13 at the time and it was 2nd and 7 inside the red zone.

As penalties go, the big sequence was late in the 2nd, up 21-3, deep in Colts territory, 3rd and 6, and Brown got an OPI and then Watson illegal motion and 3rd and 6 became 3rd and 21, Brady was sacked, and they went from another score to punting. Colts went down the field and made it 21-6 at the half.
So, you’re saying that the call that led to the score being tied in the 3rd quarter which gave all the momentum back to Indy with a brand new game, wasn’t as important as the call before the half that made it 21-6 Pats? Did I read that correctly?
 

primetime

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
So, you’re saying that the call that led to the score being tied in the 3rd quarter which gave all the momentum back to Indy with a brand new game, wasn’t as important as the call before the half that made it 21-6 Pats? Did I read that correctly?

The ball was on the Patriots' 19 and it was only 2nd down so it wasn't like it was a 40 yard play or the difference between a touchdown and a field goal or punt. The Colts were only down a score at that point. The momentum was already well into the Colts' court by that point in the game, the Patriots hadn't scored since early in the second quarter with the Samuel interception and the Colts were driving down the field for the second time in a row.

The Brown OPI happened with the Patriots just outside the red zone on a play that would have been a first down inside the red zone with the Patriots up 21-3. The sequence led to a punt rather than another Patriots score, and the Colts were able to take the ball down the field and kick a field goal after that which gave them hope at the half. Had the Brown OPI gone uncalled, it very well could have been 28-3 or, at worst, 24-3 at the half, with the Colts down a full three or four scores to the two they were down in reality.

The Hobbs call was bad but it wasn't the swing people remember it being.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top