Butler/Bademosi CB Tandem Now 3-0, 13ppg Defense

[shmessy]

The defense has improved as a whole and there isn't just one reason why. Bademosi though is making a strong case to stay in the lineup. I want Gilmore and Rowe both back ASAP but I don't see how you sit Bademosi in favor of Rowe at this point unless he falls off.

As with most thing I believe the truth here is somewhere in the middle.
Was Gilmore playing well most of the games he played? No.
Did he show signs he could be a #1 CB? Yes (we knew he had the talent).
Were many of his errors mental and correctable? Yes.
Did he look like he was starting to fix them before he got injured? Yes.

At this point if the Pats want a good chance to win it all they need their D to do well and that means Gilmore needs to come back and play like the CB we paid him to be.

Rowe is fantastic. He's not a problem and knows the system.

Gilmore will be great once he knows the system (outside of just man-to-man).

I'm rooting for him to learn it.

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[shmessy]

Well to be fair the offenses they have faced are ranked 21st, 15th, and 22nd in points scored per game.

Whereas in the 1st 4 games we face: #3, #6, #1, and #23.

So there may be another reason for the decline in points allowed as well.

Take the Patriots scores out of those point totals and what are those rankings?

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[shmessy]

You just had to bring up 2005! That was the year for crowning achievement #2, the threepeat. The sh!t PI call, and I swear we had 10 turnovers if we had 1. I think Denver was held to like 270 yards(?) TOTAL offense. What was that stat that Denver gained like 22(??) offensive yards to score 17 of their points.

We had the team on both sides of the ball for the threepeat (weaker pass D but overall good team). We were mediocre for 3 months but we turned it on the last month or so of the season playing very good ball. Yes Denver had a very good (I hope Champ is now shoveling slop for a living ) but damn did we turn it over too much. That loss sucked the big one. Get past Denver and it was a PItt team we would have beaten and a Seattle team we would have beaten.

They were a 10-6 team that couldn't earn a bye. It wasn't just 'bad luck' on one night.

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[RobertWeathers]

They are 2-5 and getting most of those stats in garbage time of losing games - - just like the Patriots game.

Look at all those great stats Winston put up in the Pats game.......do you really think they were good? Or the Pats were going into safe mode. Does anyone who WATCHED that game actually think Winston's 26-46 for 334 yds was legit and not garbage time padding?

It may help to watch the field instead of only the stat line.

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TB has very good talent on offense.

It may help if you were aware of that.

 

[shmessy]

TB has very good talent on offense.

It may help if you were aware of that.

So does San Diego. What's your point?

BTW, how many weeks of training camp did Bademosi have?

Look, RW, I'm rooting for Gilmore, truly I am. I hope he gets the system down. He's a great natural talent and the Pats could benefit from him.

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[RobertWeathers]

So does San Diego. What's your point?

BTW, how many weeks of training camp did Bademosi have?

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Point is NE has a good defense. If you want to crap on teams that have talent at the skill positions go ahead. I won't .

 

[shmessy]

Point is NE has a good defense. If you want to crap on teams that have talent at the skill positions go ahead. I won't .

They've made some great changes and the D has been much improved the past 4 games. It's been wonderful to watch. Yesterday, was even more impressive given the absences of Hightower, Gilmore, Rowe and Malcolm Brown. Bademosi and Jonathan Jones have been playing well above what anyone could have expected. Hopefully all players can reach their full potential.

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[Tuck]

Badass is officially playing better than Gilmore before he was injured/benched.. There's now question about it anymore.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

They are 2-5 and getting most of those stats in garbage time of losing games - - just like the Patriots game.

Look at all those great stats Winston put up in the Pats game.......do you really think they were good? Or the Pats were going into safe mode. Does anyone who WATCHED that game actually think Winston's 26-46 for 334 yds was legit and not garbage time padding?

It may help to watch the field instead of only the stat line.

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When was there *garbage time* in that game? His final drive could have won the game 21-19. I know I did not rest easy until the final whistle.

 

[Mack Herron]

I predict it will look different when Gilmore returns.

 

[Mack Herron]

“Well, we listed him on the injury report the way we always do," he said. "We make those designations on Friday and then based on where things are on Sunday then we make that determination. I think when he’s ready and able to play and able to do everything I’m sure he will be able to help us. We’re working towards that point. We’re getting closer.”

Bill Belichick explains decision to make Stephon Gilmore inactive vs. Chargers

 

[brdmaverick]

Oh, is that the one where Butler looked back at McCourty...kind of like how Gilmore looked back at one of his safeties when he was on the Bills?

I thought that didn't happen on the Pats...

I can see how they would appear similar but there is one difference that changes EVERYTHING.....

When Butler had his exchange with McCourty the play was undisputably OVER. He didn't stop in mid pursuit to blast McCourty.

But, whatever, I don't want to go down this rabbit hole again. We'll just continue to agree-to-disagree on that play.

But I do agree that people are quick to write off Gilmore so quickly. The defense is clearly playing better without him at the moment, but that doesn't mean they won't be even better with him back.

 

[chasa]

i heard once gilmore found out he was inactive he left the stadium. is that true?

If so thats a severe lack of character to not want to watch your team play.

 

[shmessy]

i heard once gilmore found out he was inactive he left the stadium. is that true?

If so thats a severe lack of character to not want to watch your team play.

Where'd you heard that?

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[JMC00]

He isn’t that open in that coverage without opi

Ya I mean to say that wasn't OPI is just comically wrong. If Benjamin could get out of the way of Chung why couldn't their guy get out of the way of Bademosi? Teams run those plays in the hopes the DB will move out of the way which will cause enough separation for the WR they are covering or if they do run into each other the refs won't throw the flag.

Chargers are whining like ****ies about it yet the refs made it up to them with that PI call on Bademosi

 

[brdmaverick]

The Pats have given up 51 points the last 4 weeks ( after giving up 128 the first four weeks).
I researched the last time the Pats have given up a total of 51 points or less over 4 weeks.... Considering all the injuries, it is even more impressive......



Weeks #13-16 in 2005

Wow, count me as one of the shocked people that the 2005 team had a stretch this good. After all, that was the team with significant injuries (like Bruschi and Rodney) and failed additions such as Duane Starks, Monty Biesel, and Chad Brown.

 

[mgteich]

If Rowe is healthy, it is time for a heart to heart talk with Gilmore. Presuming that Gilmore really wants a future with the patriots, AND Rowe is healthy, then just perhaps, Gilmore needs to take a very minor role for the rest of the season (absent further injuries). In the scenario, Gilmore would be expected to start in 2018 (as one the three starters).

After all, we should be OK going forward this year with Butler, Bademosi, Rowe and Jones (and our safeties).

 

[BradyFTW!]

Of the Chargers' 2 touchdowns, one came because Butler was matched up against Benjamin outside and got torched for a long touchdown because, as good a player as he is, he has neither the speed nor the side to handle that role against superior athletes. He does as well as he reasonably can, I don't fault him at all, but if his technique falters even a little he's getting torched. Gilmore, OTOH, has more margin of error due to his size and speed, and that's the main reason why he's a significantly better outside man-to-man corner. If Gilmore is playing yesterday, that second touchdown likely doesn't happen.

Meanwhile, Bademosi got worked over all day on comeback routes that repeatedly extended drives. The Chargers were picking on him. I like him, but he's not a strong athlete by position/NFL standards, and against some matchups that will be a real difficulty for him. Yesterday was one of them. Bademosi is a good player with a real role to play, but he's nowhere near matchup-proof. He was a career special teamer until 2 weeks ago because it was generally believed that he did not have NFL corner athleticism: I think he's already proven that false to an extent, but athleticism is clearly a limitation for him going forward as a CB. He could still develop as a corner and make himself a bona fide starter-caliber CB2 along the lines of Logan Ryan, but he'll always be vulnerable to certain matchups, and at this point he's vulnerable to certain routes as well.

Replay yesterday with Gilmore in Butler's role and Butler in Bademosi's role, and we have a real shot at shutting them out. This defense has improved dramatically over the last month, but that improvement largely took place before Gilmore's injury, and suggesting that Gilmore's injury contributed to it is just a stupid argument that invents causation where there is none.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Think that one was on McCourty. We'll have to wait for the rewatch thread to verify, but I'm pretty sure it was on McCourty.

I don't think so, the issue was that Butler was not set and was staring into the backfield when the ball was snapped. He was caught flat-footed right up at the line, which against a guy with Benjamin's speed is basically a death sentence. The moment he missed the jam Rivers locked on to Benjamin because he knew there was no safety help over the top and it was an easy pitch-and-catch touchdown.

McCourty is a great FS, but I don't think there's anyone who can come across the field and catch a guy with 4.3 speed after the corner completely whiffs like that. It's just a pure footrace at that point, and no safety is going to win that.

 

[chasa]

Where'd you heard that?

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Patriots CB Stephon Gilmore leaves stadium and is inactive vs. Chargers