PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Idle thoughts - the grumpy old guy edition


Status
Not open for further replies.

patfanken

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
15,522
Reaction score
27,522
Sorry about the delay. Part of the reason was personal stuff that got in the way and part was because I just didn't feel like it. But anyway, here I am with what will likely be a much shorter version since I don't want to bore people with stuff that has already been talked about ad nauseaum. LIke in most losses I have issued a self-imposed media lockout, like I do after most losses. so, in the end, I might very well be redundant in my thoughts. So apologizes in advance if I am.

My overriding emotion after that game was absolute FURY. I rarely get on the officials, like some here. In fact, I sometimes defend them for being human and trying to officiate games at such high speed. Sometimes is amazing that they get it right so often. HOWEVER, on this afternoon, there was no doubt in my mind that the refs simply screwed the Pats out of a win.

Now don't get me wrong. It's not like I thought the Pats defense played well. In fact, it might have been the worst defensive effort on the mental side that we have seen in the BB era. But more on that later. My point is that regardless of the myriad of mental breakdowns, the fact is that these refs made some completely inexplicable calls, AND made them early and often during the course of the game.

And what was even more infuriating was the fact the most of those calls had NOTHING to do with the play AND so many had ball possession implications. IIRC, there were at least 3 drives where the Panthers got a first down or a shot another shot at a first down after the Pats had seemingly made the 3rd down stop. On all 3 of those drives, Carolina went on to score.

The offensive PI against Gronk was completely a phantom call. The one against Amendola was at least technically correct, but is rarely called, especially when it didn't affect the actual play. But it was called THIS time. :rolleyes:

The hands to the face rule, IIRC was designed to be called when a player gets his hand UNDER the facemask. Merely inadvertently touching the face mask should NOT bring out a flag, and again, ESPECIALLY, when the actual play is going on on the other side of the field. I was appalled when I saw it the first time, but these calls just kept on coming, over and over again, while the Panthers were essentially free to do what they wanted without fear of any repercussions. The ONLY penalty on the Panther for the entire game was the PI on Gronk which was an easy call (though I wish Gronk had passed on the theatrical ending) and that was it. I couldn't believe it until I saw it in the game stats.

Now the Pats and their players have all said the right things, and none will ever use those calls as an excuse, ESPECIALLY, given all the self-inflicted errors we saw all this game. But the fact remains that as badly as the Pats defense played, they STILL would have won this game if they had not had just one of those head-scratching calls. :mad:

OFFENSE - This will be really short. The offense is fine. They just put up 36 against the best defense in the league at the time, and put up 30 against the next "best defense in the league". So while there aren't any significant problems with the offense, but I guess a few comments need to be mentioned in passing.

a. Brady was very good, but he did leave some plays on the field where he missed open receivers and held the ball to long resulting in sacks. Now in comparison with the rest of the league's QB's Brady was brilliant. But it's gotten to the point where Brady is only competing with Brady and there were at least 3 passes that he just flat out missed (one to Cooks, Gronk on the GL, and White), and there were 2 cases where he got sacked by simply holding the ball too long.

b. I thought the OL had its best game of the year so far. The run blocking seems crisper, but after we got behind, it was abandoned. The pass blocking was fairly good. I saw only one sack, where the OL broke down (the sack on Cannon), and that was mostly because of a great stunt design. The other 2 were, as I mentioned, more on Brady. Remember Brady dropped back 45 times, and the other guys get paid too. So, IMHO, all the talk about Brady being on tap for a 52 sack year is less about the OL (at this point)

c. At this point, I'm nitpicking - but I would like to see Cooks get a few more targets each game

d. But like I said, in the beginning, the offense is fine. They are putting up points and they have done it against 3 very good defenses. Now on to the elephant in the room.

DEFENSE - What can I say that hasn't been said already. But I will say this, on the positive side. I believe that, given the talent they have, this CAN be a solid defense by the time the playoffs arrive. But on the negative side, I don't think I saw as many MENTAL breakdowns in a single game during the entire 18 year period Bill Belichick has run this team. It was simply horrifying, and nothing is going to improve until that is corrected.

What is most disturbing is that most of the breakdowns are coming from the ONE area of the team we had the fewest questions about. Now it's the area we have the MOST questions. Does Gilmore have a brain? Has McCourty fallen off "the cliff"? Can Rowe tackle? (though I doubt we have to worry about that for a few weeks now) Where is the Butler everyone wanted to give the big money to? Let us take them one by one.

a Gilmore - I actually have very little issue with Gilmore's coverage skills. When he actually gets in coverage on a man, especially in man, he does quite well. However, at least on the surface, his mental mistakes have been painful to watch. Granted, we CANNOT be sure that all of the mistakes we see lie on him, but his involvement on so many of them can't be dismissed. ON the plus side, they all can be corrected, but time is running out.

b McCourty- This is the one that actually worries me the most. Suddenly Devon McCourty can't seem to cover anyone. Not WR's. Not TE's. Plus he seems to be involved is a few of the unit's brain farts as well.

c. Rowe missed a critical tackle during this game, where had he made it, the defense would have gotten off the field and the Panthers wouldn't have put points on the board. Between this and the 2 absurd calls, that was not only three more times the offense would have gotten the ball, it was 3 drives that the Panthers wouldn't have put points on the board. You think that might have affected the final score????? Damned right it would have. Unfortunately, Rowe will likely be unable to make up for miss for the next few weeks.

d. Butler - Butler actually seemed to be better this week, but still not back to what we've become accustomed to the last 2 years. When Rowe went out, and Butler got Matched up with Funchess and Benjamin, he was no match for them. There was one play where he had perfect coverage and he was simply too short to make the play. The only play that pissed me off was a 3rd down play on the final drive where Funchess ran an under route to the sideline for the first down and Butler was very late to make the play. So while he made his share of good plays, at the critical moment (like the rest of his cohorts), he came up short. (no pun intended)

e. Hightower brought little lift to the game. In fact I didn't realize he was even on the field for most of the first half. On the other hand, Roberts and Van Noy played well I thought.

f. What was ironic in this game that it was the much-maligned DL that played the best and most consistently. Until very late in the game, the run D was solid and while the pressure was great, it was sufficient to win this game. They even made the "critical" play with the sack by Wise that was wiped out by the so-called penalty.

g. So in the end, this defense ISN'T like the 2011 D that sucked so back, especially early that season. It is a lot better. The problem seems like they are also a lot DUMBER, and unless or until that is fixed the prospects of even getting to the playoffs will be in question.

h. The problem is that there really isn't any time to get things fixed given the short week and playing on the road against another good team with a mobile QB and tall WR's. :eek: That's a lot to do, with very little time to do it.

Grumpy old man sh!t -

a. As I watched the KC kicker line up for the 45 yd kick he made to win the game, I felt helpless knowing that there was no way the Pats or ANY team has a real chance to affect the kick. In the NFL today, the league has completely legislated that out of the game. Whether a kick is ever missed now is strictly up to the kicker. 80% success rates will become the norm, rather than the exception, and making just 70% of your FG tries will be cause for expulsion. I HATE that.

b. Am I the only one who is enjoying the great year Alex Smith is having? It's a great story. Here is a guy who has been written off. His job made temporary as a placeholder for heir apparent. Yet he is having his best year defying all his critics.

c. I won't be listening much to the local sports show (except maybe about the Sox and Bedard's film breakdown). You can almost predict what they will be saying, so what's the point. This is what it is. This team will either get their OWN act squared away, or they won't. No *****ing or moaning by us will make any difference. BB has said over and over just how HARD it is to win a game in the NFL. If you GIVE an opponent extra plays or points, you won't often win or be even close. Well, that is what the Pats have done over and over the last month. The good news is that they are 2-2, so there IS hope. The bad news is that if the brain farts continue....there won't be any hope.

See I told you it would shorter......relatively speaking. ;)
 
Mostly agree with all of this, especially the calls / offense. Brady's miss to Allen on the sidelines was pretty big and lost us points. Rowe missed tackle + Gilmore hand's were huge for time and scoring.

Personally, I hated the Gilmore signing when it happened. Bouye was better in my opinion (I know that won't be popular) but it seems I was right. I don't think this D is beyond fixable but it is an uphill climb. For me, I would have rather used Gilmore's money on Jones/Collins, regardless of what happened last year.

The biggest drop off's this year have been McCourty and Chung which is surprising. They are both looking terrible and prone to big plays. Whether that means more time for Harmon (!) and Jordan Richards (Eckersley voice: "yuck"), I don't know. But you're spot on with the McCourty analysis.
 
Thanks, Ken. :) After reading your post, I actually feel much better. I too felt the defensive penalties were bogus... so much for HFA with the refs. LOL And I was also encouraged by the D-line.

As far as the secondary, that's a baffler. DMac, Butler, and Gilmore can't all just suck at once.

For now, I guess we just gotta have a little faith...

636209452095197918-USATSI-9832778.jpg


...in the hoodie. :)
 
i think this offense might score more than the 589 (?) the 2007 offense did, i think they're just about 3ppg off from that right now, and i expect this O to get better as year progresses rather than worse

however that also assumes the D starts improving and playing smart as well, you stop the big plays due to miscommunication, and you should automatically stop 50% of the points they've given up
 
Excellent point about how blocked extra points and field goals have for the most part been removed from the game. I am all for player safety, but, this affects every game and ruins what used to be at least a chance to change the result of a game. I am surprised there has been so little said about it.

I also agree with you in wondering what the hell has happened to Devin McC & P. Chung. I believe it’s way too soon to be labeling the Gilmore signing as a bust, the guy has talent and I am confident he will do very well, once he has more playing time and experience in with this defense. Eric Rowe is also a mystery and hopefully, Butler will keep playing like the Butler we all fell in love with from here on out.

If the D/backs play as they are supposed to and Hightower stays on the field....we should end up in the middle of the pack or better, with improvement week after week. If that can happen, the team will be right where they belong.......fighting for Home field and byes and winning aanother title!!
 
Sorry about the delay. Part of the reason was personal stuff that got in the way and part was because I just didn't feel like it. But anyway, here I am with what will likely be a much shorter version since I don't want to bore people with stuff that has already been talked about ad nauseaum. LIke in most losses I have issued a self-imposed media lockout, like I do after most losses. so, in the end, I might very well be redundant in my thoughts. So apologizes in advance if I am.

My overriding emotion after that game was absolute FURY. I rarely get on the officials, like some here. In fact, I sometimes defend them for being human and trying to officiate games at such high speed. Sometimes is amazing that they get it right so often. HOWEVER, on this afternoon, there was no doubt in my mind that the refs simply screwed the Pats out of a win.

Now don't get me wrong. It's not like I thought the Pats defense played well. In fact, it might have been the worst defensive effort on the mental side that we have seen in the BB era. But more on that later. My point is that regardless of the myriad of mental breakdowns, the fact is that these refs made some completely inexplicable calls, AND made them early and often during the course of the game.

And what was even more infuriating was the fact the most of those calls had NOTHING to do with the play AND so many had ball possession implications. IIRC, there were at least 3 drives where the Panthers got a first down or a shot another shot at a first down after the Pats had seemingly made the 3rd down stop. On all 3 of those drives, Carolina went on to score.

The offensive PI against Gronk was completely a phantom call. The one against Amendola was at least technically correct, but is rarely called, especially when it didn't affect the actual play. But it was called THIS time. :rolleyes:

The hands to the face rule, IIRC was designed to be called when a player gets his hand UNDER the facemask. Merely inadvertently touching the face mask should NOT bring out a flag, and again, ESPECIALLY, when the actual play is going on on the other side of the field. I was appalled when I saw it the first time, but these calls just kept on coming, over and over again, while the Panthers were essentially free to do what they wanted without fear of any repercussions. The ONLY penalty on the Panther for the entire game was the PI on Gronk which was an easy call (though I wish Gronk had passed on the theatrical ending) and that was it. I couldn't believe it until I saw it in the game stats.

Now the Pats and their players have all said the right things, and none will ever use those calls as an excuse, ESPECIALLY, given all the self-inflicted errors we saw all this game. But the fact remains that as badly as the Pats defense played, they STILL would have won this game if they had not had just one of those head-scratching calls. :mad:

OFFENSE - This will be really short. The offense is fine. They just put up 36 against the best defense in the league at the time, and put up 30 against the next "best defense in the league". So while there aren't any significant problems with the offense, but I guess a few comments need to be mentioned in passing.

a. Brady was very good, but he did leave some plays on the field where he missed open receivers and held the ball to long resulting in sacks. Now in comparison with the rest of the league's QB's Brady was brilliant. But it's gotten to the point where Brady is only competing with Brady and there were at least 3 passes that he just flat out missed (one to Cooks, Gronk on the GL, and White), and there were 2 cases where he got sacked by simply holding the ball too long.

b. I thought the OL had its best game of the year so far. The run blocking seems crisper, but after we got behind, it was abandoned. The pass blocking was fairly good. I saw only one sack, where the OL broke down (the sack on Cannon), and that was mostly because of a great stunt design. The other 2 were, as I mentioned, more on Brady. Remember Brady dropped back 45 times, and the other guys get paid too. So, IMHO, all the talk about Brady being on tap for a 52 sack year is less about the OL (at this point)

c. At this point, I'm nitpicking - but I would like to see Cooks get a few more targets each game

d. But like I said, in the beginning, the offense is fine. They are putting up points and they have done it against 3 very good defenses. Now on to the elephant in the room.

DEFENSE - What can I say that hasn't been said already. But I will say this, on the positive side. I believe that, given the talent they have, this CAN be a solid defense by the time the playoffs arrive. But on the negative side, I don't think I saw as many MENTAL breakdowns in a single game during the entire 18 year period Bill Belichick has run this team. It was simply horrifying, and nothing is going to improve until that is corrected.

What is most disturbing is that most of the breakdowns are coming from the ONE area of the team we had the fewest questions about. Now it's the area we have the MOST questions. Does Gilmore have a brain? Has McCourty fallen off "the cliff"? Can Rowe tackle? (though I doubt we have to worry about that for a few weeks now) Where is the Butler everyone wanted to give the big money to? Let us take them one by one.

a Gilmore - I actually have very little issue with Gilmore's coverage skills. When he actually gets in coverage on a man, especially in man, he does quite well. However, at least on the surface, his mental mistakes have been painful to watch. Granted, we CANNOT be sure that all of the mistakes we see lie on him, but his involvement on so many of them can't be dismissed. ON the plus side, they all can be corrected, but time is running out.

b McCourty- This is the one that actually worries me the most. Suddenly Devon McCourty can't seem to cover anyone. Not WR's. Not TE's. Plus he seems to be involved is a few of the unit's brain farts as well.

c. Rowe missed a critical tackle during this game, where had he made it, the defense would have gotten off the field and the Panthers wouldn't have put points on the board. Between this and the 2 absurd calls, that was not only three more times the offense would have gotten the ball, it was 3 drives that the Panthers wouldn't have put points on the board. You think that might have affected the final score????? Damned right it would have. Unfortunately, Rowe will likely be unable to make up for miss for the next few weeks.

d. Butler - Butler actually seemed to be better this week, but still not back to what we've become accustomed to the last 2 years. When Rowe went out, and Butler got Matched up with Funchess and Benjamin, he was no match for them. There was one play where he had perfect coverage and he was simply too short to make the play. The only play that pissed me off was a 3rd down play on the final drive where Funchess ran an under route to the sideline for the first down and Butler was very late to make the play. So while he made his share of good plays, at the critical moment (like the rest of his cohorts), he came up short. (no pun intended)

e. Hightower brought little lift to the game. In fact I didn't realize he was even on the field for most of the first half. On the other hand, Roberts and Van Noy played well I thought.

f. What was ironic in this game that it was the much-maligned DL that played the best and most consistently. Until very late in the game, the run D was solid and while the pressure was great, it was sufficient to win this game. They even made the "critical" play with the sack by Wise that was wiped out by the so-called penalty.

g. So in the end, this defense ISN'T like the 2011 D that sucked so back, especially early that season. It is a lot better. The problem seems like they are also a lot DUMBER, and unless or until that is fixed the prospects of even getting to the playoffs will be in question.

h. The problem is that there really isn't any time to get things fixed given the short week and playing on the road against another good team with a mobile QB and tall WR's. :eek: That's a lot to do, with very little time to do it.

Grumpy old man sh!t -

a. As I watched the KC kicker line up for the 45 yd kick he made to win the game, I felt helpless knowing that there was no way the Pats or ANY team has a real chance to affect the kick. In the NFL today, the league has completely legislated that out of the game. Whether a kick is ever missed now is strictly up to the kicker. 80% success rates will become the norm, rather than the exception, and making just 70% of your FG tries will be cause for expulsion. I HATE that.

b. Am I the only one who is enjoying the great year Alex Smith is having? It's a great story. Here is a guy who has been written off. His job made temporary as a placeholder for heir apparent. Yet he is having his best year defying all his critics.

c. I won't be listening much to the local sports show (except maybe about the Sox and Bedard's film breakdown). You can almost predict what they will be saying, so what's the point. This is what it is. This team will either get their OWN act squared away, or they won't. No *****ing or moaning by us will make any difference. BB has said over and over just how HARD it is to win a game in the NFL. If you GIVE an opponent extra plays or points, you won't often win or be even close. Well, that is what the Pats have done over and over the last month. The good news is that they are 2-2, so there IS hope. The bad news is that if the brain farts continue....there won't be any hope.

See I told you it would shorter......relatively speaking. ;)
You left out the most egregious phantom call of all: the defensive holding call on Chung during Stewart's 2-yard run that put Carolina in field goal range on the winning drive. I still haven't gotten over it. Have never seen anything like it and I'm willing to bet I'll go the rest of my life without seeing another defensive back called for holding away from the line of scrimmage on a running play.
 
hey grumpy old fan! Do you have grey hair???
 
The offensive PI against Gronk was completely a phantom call.

The issue for Gronk is that he has build up a somewhat deserved reputation for pushing off before breaking off in his route. Refs are reminded by every team to specifically look for that. He had a push off on Kuechly a few plays before that went uncalled and I am pretty sure the Panthers (as everyone else) complained about it.

Was it a bad call ? Yep. But I wouldnt go as far as calling it a phantom call.

The hands to the face rule, IIRC was designed to be called when a player gets his hand UNDER the facemask. Merely inadvertently touching the face mask should NOT bring out a flag, and again, ESPECIALLY, when the actual play is going on on the other side of the field. I was appalled when I saw it the first time, but these calls just kept on coming, over and over again, while the Panthers were essentially free to do what they wanted without fear of any repercussions.

While I agree again that both calls were very soft, in the end you just have to keep your hands off another players facemask. Especially the second time around. Having your hands so far up an already tall guy so a sudden or unexpected move results in touching his facemask is just poor technique.

McCourty- This is the one that actually worries me the most. Suddenly Devon McCourty can't seem to cover anyone. Not WR's. Not TE's. Plus he seems to be involved is a few of the unit's brain farts as well.

I dont think DMac just gets slowed down by trying to keep all the plates spinning in the defense. Once things settle down and everyone can focus more on playing than thinking he will look like the elite safety he is.

Hightower brought little lift to the game. In fact I didn't realize he was even on the field for most of the first half. On the other hand, Roberts and Van Noy played well I thought.

Roberts had another awful game I thought. He gets people excited because when he reads something correctly for a change he hits that player with 200mph in a spectacular way. But he still takes himself out of running plays because he misreads something and remains a liability in coverage because he is too slow to react. He personifies everything that people stupidly mock about Gilmore so far.

There is no place for a LB that is inconsistent in run defense and not proficient enough in coverage in todays NFL. I honestly wonder why he keeps playing over Harris.
 
I didn't realize Carolina only got 1 penalty the whole game. Someone made some money and/or favor with ****dell.
 
I didn't realize Carolina only got 1 penalty the whole game. Someone made some money and/or favor with ****dell.

And it was the one Gronk oversold.
 
I share your sentiment about not feeling like it, much the same as avoiding talk show radio who seem to know all the answers and are quick to play the blame game..

The O line is much the same as last year, were their flaws exposed in SB LI and this year the opposing teams are capitalizing on those flaws??

The same with the D backfield, is Gilmore that much of a dropoff from Logan Ryan??

Then there is the obvious one sided officiating, and their search for phantom penalties..
 
Last edited:
After watching the clown car display by Gilmore Sunday, my initial thoughts were...
Either he's throwing the game or he's dumb as a stump. Listening to his "I'm going to stay aggressive" bit after the game, I wonder if BB has regrets not meeting with Gilmore during free agency to get a better sense of the guy.
When teams let FA's walk, usually it's more than about money.

Regarding the OL...their effectiveness is on par with their draft cost...middle of the pack.
Same can be said with the front 7. Relying on other teams' cast offs and undrafted FAs is more band aid than building. Using the eye test to compare the Pats front 7 to the best groupings in the league, the lack of quality is glaring......smaller, less athletic-JAGS.
This team has lost premium draft picks, given away premium draft picks, traded away premium draft picks, and let former premium draft picks walk....and I see groupings devoid of quality NFL talent. Brady can cover up only so many warts

One note of positivity...NE only faces one more galloping QB...Taylor/Buffalo/2 games.....8 games from now. Hopefully, the NE defense can settle in and come together during this stretch of traditional QB play.

Edit: Just stirring the pot... but...is it too soon to discuss the competency of the secondary coaches and the hushed word "nepotism"?
 
Last edited:
Technically, wouldn't they all be "Grumpy Old Guy Editions"? j/k :p
 
In a week that an angry Blount runs for 136 yards I'm surprised no one has addressed the Gillislee comparison or other first quarter RB performances.

I would sit Rex on Thursday and give his ribs another 2 weeks to heal.

Isn't it a good time for a RB to step up and take some of the pressure off Brady in a short week?
 
I wonder if BB has regrets not meeting with Gilmore during free agency to get a better sense of the

Considering how much the Pats are (rightly) praised for knowing the guys that come in, I think that's a good question.

Edit: Just stirring the pot... but...is it too soon to discuss the competency of the secondary coaches and the hushed word "nepotism"?

I've wondered about secondary coaching for a long time. It's possible to have a poorly coached unit perform well.
 
After watching the clown car display by Gilmore Sunday, my initial thoughts were...
Either he's throwing the game or he's dumb as a stump. Listening to his "I'm going to stay aggressive" bit after the game, I wonder if BB has regrets not meeting with Gilmore during free agency to get a better sense of the guy.
When teams let FA's walk, usually it's more than about money.

Okay so was it more than about money with Chris Long, Martellus Bennett and Logan Ryan?
 
In a week that an angry Blount runs for 136 yards I'm surprised no one has addressed the Gillislee comparison or other first quarter RB performances.

I'll address it. The Pats abandoned the running game because they were behind.
 
One of the most frustrating aspects : last two weeks the D, though it was poor for the most part, comes up huge at the end - when it counted. But in week 4, when huge, massive plays seemed to happen at the end of the fourth quarter, penalties erased the game changers.

DH, Wise...... but the penalties. So, it just seems like there are a few guys out there that CAN come up big on D. Which gets me back to frustration...
 
Okay so was it more than about money with Chris Long, Martellus Bennett and Logan Ryan?
When I penned my post, Long, Bennett, and Ryan were not part of my consideration....
Jones (#1)and Collins were
Easley (#1)was
Brown (#1) is
Forfeited draft picks (#1 & #4)were
Draft pick price (#1 & #3)for Cooks

My point, foundation quality assets have been spent/relinquished and replaced mostly with castoffs, UDFAs, JAGS .....Net negative IMO
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


Bruschi’s Proudest Moment: Former LB Speaks to MusketFire’s Marshall in Recent Interview
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/22: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-21, Kraft-Belichick, A.J. Brown Trade?
MORSE: Patriots Draft Needs and Draft Related Info
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/19: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/16: News and Notes
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/15: News and Notes
Back
Top