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lancerman

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
I think it's far more plausible that it had more to do with the Patriots' continued success.

I mean up to that point we weren't as successful since Spygate if you think about it. We went from 3 Super Bowl wins and another AFCCG appearance (totaling 4) to 5 AFCCG apearances (counting the one that year) and 2 Super Bowl losses.

There was a reason the NFL cited Spygate when they punished us. There were lots of reports that owners were livid over Goodell destroying the tapes. They just should have taken it out on Goodell, not us.
 

ThatllMoveTheChains!!!

In the Starting Line-Up
I mean up to that point we weren't as successful since Spygate if you think about it. We went from 3 Super Bowl wins and another AFCCG appearance (totaling 4) to 5 AFCCG apearances (counting the one that year) and 2 Super Bowl losses.

There was a reason the NFL cited Spygate when they punished us. There were lots of reports that owners were livid over Goodell destroying the tapes. They just should have taken it out on Goodell, not us.
I don't think the goal of the over the top punishment to the Patriots was to knock them down a quarter peg. While they weren't quite as dominant they were/are still the most dominant team in the league.

They lied and framed things to justify handing down another ridiculous punishment to the Patriots over a procedural violation that they couldn't prove and is supposed to carry a 25k fine if anything. Of course they were going to bring up the repeat offenders thing as part of that despite it being ridiculous.
 

Tony2046

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Hint they are looking for a puppet. Goodell is a puppet. The owners were pissed off about Spygate and how it was handled and they looked for an opportunity to go after the Patriots, Deflategate provided an opening and they did everything they could to find something and justify the punishment even if it was flimsy and biased.

They wanted to punish a star player for domestic violence, they were sick of Jerry embarassing them, they were sick of Zeke always being in the news. So they used this an opportunity to find something and teach them a lesson.

I keep telling you guys but if it's not Goodell, it's someone else. The NBA is a player friendly league the NFL is not and the owners have more sway and want a guy who will do what they want. They fought for Goodell to get this power in the CBA.

What you are describing here is corruption.

They went after the Patriots because of a variety of reasons. Some I assume and some I know. But the bottom line is in both cases they were without evidence and full of malice. The deflategate evidence wasn't flimsy it was manufactured.

But again you're here defending Kraft. Is he complicit? Or is he the victim that didn't have enough power to stop it? If it's the latter it sounds like calling him a P***y isn't far off target if it's the former then it's worse than we thought.

Praising Roger for doing a good job, giving him hugs and kisses doesn't help your case much.

Using Jerry to excuse another punishment without evidence doesn't work either.

The art of diplomacy is to "speak softly and carry a big stick" and not "speak softly and wear a hug me button".
 
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DarrylS

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if i am the PA, i refuse to sign off on the new CBA in 2021 unless goodell is gone.

Even if Article 46 is replaced with a clause that includes a more just system of due process??

Goodell works for the owners not the players.. if that was a condition in negotiations they would have to give up quite a bit of their already negotiated benefits... negotiations are a "give and take" process.

If there are better benefits and a larger share of the "pool of money" most other things become secondary..
 

lancerman

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
What you are describing here is corruption.

They went after the Patriots because of a variety of reasons. Some I assume and some I know. But the bottom line is in both cases they were without evidence and full of malice. The deflategate evidence wasn't flimsy it was manufactured.

But again you're here defending Kraft. Is he complicit? Or is he the victim that didn't have enough power to stop it? If it's the latter it sounds like calling him a P***y isn't far off target if it's the former then it's worse than we thought.

Praising Roger for doing a good job, giving him hugs and kisses doesn't help your case much.

Using Jerry to excuse another punishment without evidence doesn't work either.

The art of diplomacy is to "speak softly and carry a big stick" and not "speak softly and wear a hug me button".
Again I don't and still don't think there was any scenario where Kraft could take an action and change the outcome. Just like Jerry can't. Kraft said he disagreed with the decision every step of the way from the first allegations to the results and punishment of the Wells report, to Brady losing in the 2nd circuit and giving up. He had a counter Wells report made to defend his team.

Kraft was never going to get another outcome, Jerry isn't going to get another outcome and it sounds like he's alienating himself and having owners talk about fining him more and calling his conduct detrimental. Likely just a scare tactic, but it's not nothing and Jerry is going to lose this fight, there are already reports that Goodell's extension will happen before the next owners meeting (which will be in Dallas just to rub salt in the wounds) and Zeke already gave up.

I think Kraft is both just like Jerry is and they all are. It's the classic case of creating the weapon that might be used against you someday. Kraft and all the owners wanted this type of power over the players. Kraft just didn't realize that there was bad blood and jealousy against his team and they wanted their pound of flesh when the opportunity presented itself. But no I don't think Kraft stood to gain anything from acting like Jerry and Jerry despite this tantrum already had his player give up and Goodell's getting that extension, and now the owners are leaking that they are thinking about punishing Jerry for conduct detrimental to the league.
 

lancerman

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Even if Article 46 is replaced with a clause that includes a more just system of due process??

Goodell works for the owners not the players.. if that was a condition in negotiations they would have to give up quite a bit of their already negotiated benefits... negotiations are a "give and take" process.

If there are better benefits and a larger share of the "pool of money" most other things become secondary..
This. Most players only care about money and benefits. The vast majority of them aren't going to be around long enough to care about the procedure of punishments and code of conduct violations.
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member
Again I don't and still don't think there was any scenario where Kraft could take an action and change the outcome. Just like Jerry can't. Kraft said he disagreed with the decision every step of the way from the first allegations to the results and punishment of the Wells report, to Brady losing in the 2nd circuit and giving up. He had a counter Wells report made to defend his team.
And he did nothing at all with it.
You have no way of knowing what would have happened if he exercised his right to appeal.

Kraft was never going to get another outcome, Jerry isn't going to get another outcome and it sounds like he's alienating himself and having owners talk about fining him more and calling his conduct detrimental. Likely just a scare tactic, but it's not nothing and Jerry is going to lose this fight, there are already reports that Goodell's extension will happen before the next owners meeting (which will be in Dallas just to rub salt in the wounds) and Zeke already gave up.
You don’t know this. Jones is actually saying it’s about goodell being overpaid and there is a very good chance his dissension could affect the negotiations.

I think Kraft is both just like Jerry is and they all are. It's the classic case of creating the weapon that might be used against you someday. Kraft and all the owners wanted this type of power over the players. Kraft just didn't realize that there was bad blood and jealousy against his team and they wanted their pound of flesh when the opportunity presented itself. But no I don't think Kraft stood to gain anything from acting like Jerry and Jerry despite this tantrum already had his player give up and Goodell's getting that extension, and now the owners are leaking that they are thinking about punishing Jerry for conduct detrimental to the league.
They can leak what they want but it isn’t going to happen.
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member
I think it's far more plausible that it had more to do with the Patriots' continued success.
ithink it’s obvious what happened. Goodell was getting tipped over his actions in domestic violence and being soft, especially on ray rice. He needed something to show a) he was a tough guy and b) he woud even punish a player like Brady.
In addition other owners didn’t agree with spygate, not understanding it and thinking he let his buddy kraft off lightly so the patriots were the obvious target.
This was all goodell. The owners part was they didn’t step in to do anything about the huge injustice.
 

shmessy

Northern VA/Retired
PatsFans.com Supporter
I mean up to that point we weren't as successful since Spygate if you think about it. We went from 3 Super Bowl wins and another AFCCG appearance (totaling 4) to 5 AFCCG apearances (counting the one that year) and 2 Super Bowl losses.

There was a reason the NFL cited Spygate when they punished us. There were lots of reports that owners were livid over Goodell destroying the tapes. They just should have taken it out on Goodell, not us.


Kraft has been making the other owners look horrible to their fanbases for over 2 decades.

THINK:

The poor jamoke in Miami or Dallas or DC who has to pay a small mortgage for a PSL for a team that hasn't won two playoff games in years learns that the Dynastic New England Patriots don't even burden their spoiled fans with what is now STANDARD in the NFL for any stadium built since the dawn of the century.

That is going to cause "trouble" with the customers. That is an existential threat to their franchises.

They NEED a reason to explain why one franchise has dominated while charging their customers far less, privately funding a state of the art stadium and not ransoming several hundreds of millions of dollars from their states.

Money makes the world go round - - and the New England Patriots present an EXISTENTIAL THREAT to their competitors from a business view.

Jones, Irsay, Woody,etc know that the Krafts are Amazon and they are Bradlees.

Hell, the Krafts were already marketing the Patriots in China in the 1990's.

Defamegate was not about this:


It was about this:



Guess who were the hardliners in the owners room during that time? Guess who, in the words of the starting center of our biggest rivals and Peyton Manning's best friend said "This sis the man who saved football"? Kraft left the bed of his dying wife to do that. How does THAT look to the paying customers of Jones, Woody, Irsay, Snyder, etc. I can tell you as I live in the DC suburbs.

THAT is what Defamegate was all about. Notice the difference between that and the Zeke case. The #1 million fine to the ownership and the draft pick dockings.

When it comes to it all being about Goodell, its too bad so many fans are gullible enough to fall for the story of the men behind the curtain.......


.
 
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lancerman

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
And he did nothing at all with it.
You have no way of knowing what would have happened if he exercised his right to appeal.


You don’t know this. Jones is actually saying it’s about goodell being overpaid and there is a very good chance his dissension could affect the negotiations.


They can leak what they want but it isn’t going to happen.
He didn't do "nothing at all".
-He published a counter Wells report.
-He publicly challenged the NFL to produce evidence.
-He publicly condemned the decision and said it was ridiculous and that he regrets saying he would accept any punishments that were handed down.
-He publicly condemned the NFL again when Brady lost to the 2nd circuit.
-He was the one who denied the NFL access to McNally and Jastremski.

He just didn't do enough for you. Every legal expert who has talked about it said there was likely no course of action legal or otherwise that was getting the picks or the fine back. Brady was the only one who had a hope of winning. And even he didn't. Could he have made waves and done more? Potentially, but Kraft's a smart guy and he good lawyers who were advising him and they came to an understanding that the best course of action was to publicly disagree with the NFL and then let Brady's case go the way it would. And the realistic prospects of another outcome just weren't there. These aren't joe schmoes on the street, these are rich guys with some of the best lawyers and advisers money can buy. They knew what they were up against and what the odds were.

Watch what happens with Jones over the next few months. He already lost with Zeke, let's see how realistic his chances are of stopping the contract extension. Because as of now, Brady gave up, Kraft gave up, and Zeke gave up. I see a pattern
 

Silver Blue&Red

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
It starting to look like part of Jerruhs "Everything I have ", is rumors and false info. A smear campaign, if you will.

And, it may be, that the owners are getting a little fed up with his selfish antics and use of power.

Apparently, GODdell isn't asking for, or negotiating for 50 mm a year.
Or lifetime private jets, healthcare... etc..


Of course that's if you believe this report.

Roger Goodell's base salary would be roughly in the range of $20M per year

BTW, I still think GODdell should go.

But Jones could be isolating himself among the owners.
So maybe Kraft was the smarter one. "Go along to get along"
 

shmessy

Northern VA/Retired
PatsFans.com Supporter
I think Kraft is both just like Jerry is and they all are.........

Pardon me, but that's baloney.

- PSLs vs no PSLs.

- Hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars to fund his private stadium vs none (just external roadways)

....and when we almost lost a season to a lockout:

Jones never got off his sofa

Kraft left his wife's deathbed to save the season

 

Bill Lee

What, me worry?
Next, just how many of the league engaged owners will go to the mat/go the distance to support the fight against Jones? Obviously Goodell and the rest of his island of misfit toys at the NFL administrative building will operate and act against Jones. But one has to wonder if the cool kids such as Rooney, Kraft, Mara, Hunt see Jones gathering up all his troops for a massive fight(and arguably no owner will have as many troops as Jones does), will these owners see this as worth fighting? (Blank is Goodell's new BFF?)?

Depending on what Jones wants, he needs a pro Goodell vote tally that drops below 24 owners. Once that magic number is hit then it's pointless for the fight to go on. A change and/or compromise will be required.
Thing is, it's pretty much been a done deal once it got to the Compensation Committee. Once it gets there, it's just those members that need to vote, and they are pretty much the core of the NFL's "old school" owners:
Chairman Arthur Blank(Falcons), Clark Hunt (Chiefs), Robert Kraft (Patriots), John Mara (Giants), Bob McNair (Texans) and Art Rooney II (Steelers)
As we saw, Blank had it in his power to take away any role Jerruh had in the contract negotiations, and even had the power to write the cease and desist letter putting Jerruh on notice that his actions would have consequences.

Thing is, Jerruh has a strong argument that Roger is overpaid.

A list of the top 200 CEOs pay for 2016 ( Equilar | New York Times 200 Highest-Paid CEOs 2016 ) doesn't even show Roger because NFL is not publicly traded, but we can see at $40M he'd be #8.

Roger has been bringing in the money for the league, but there's evidence that they've peaked and are going to go down hard after the next round of TV contracts come up. Add to that all the PR nightmares Roger has presided over, and there's no way his renewal is justified.

However see above, it was a done deal once it got to the Compensation Committee. And Jerruh looks like a sour grapes whiner for trying to torpedo things after he was part of the 32-0 vote to get it to the compensation committee.
 

Raymond

In the Starting Line-Up
The owners were pissed off about Spygate and how it was handled and they looked for an opportunity to go after the Patriots, Deflategate provided an opening and they did everything they could to find something and justify the punishment even if it was flimsy and biased.

Wat?

I won't rehash why there's literally zero reason for other teams to be upset with the Patriots over this.

Your point of view is as a Pat's fan, so not realistic at all. After 2007 they continued to win against every team. Teams loved to believe the Pats were not simply better than all of them.

And if you didn't know, Jealousy is the strongest human emotion that can lead to irrational behavior.
 

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