J. Kraft: Jones told us to "take your medicine"

[PatsDeb]

Got it. Fighting for an innocent man is no longer feasible because we are a bunch of chicken **** ass wholes who can be swayed by the elite and powerfully corrupt garbage scum. I'm so glad you, the inlightened intelligent ones, still vote.

I truly believe that those who think capitulation was the appropriate response also believe that Brady was at some level complicit in deflategate. Why would accepting Kraft' s response make sense otherwise?

Once again, $$$$ and don't rock the boat was the strategy. And the idea that BB was part of this "strategy" is absurd. He focused on the games, and when they handed him the lemons of missing Brady for 4 weeks, he did what he always does and made lemonade.

 

[Ring 6]

I disagree. Belichick has one of the best strategic minds I've ever had the pleasure of seeing in action. If the broader objective was satisfied by bending to the situation and then looking for ways to turn it to his advantage I would expect Bill to realize that quickly and not send good time, money and effort after bad, and begin to plan the turnaround.

You have to stop this silliness.
There is no 'broader objective' in bending over and letting someone do whatever they want to you. Your argument is that the way to deal with a bully is to drop to the ground and let them beat the crap out of you as often as they wish, because you are the smart one, and that will give you an advantage.
Kraft had zero to lose by objecting to this travesty. He gave away 1 million dollar, 2 draft picks and 4 Brady games (plus the stain on his reputation) and you say its because he didn't think those things were worth the time or money? Why do the Wells report in context and choose to not have your appeal hearing to use it?
By your argument if the Patriot were 5-5, BB would give up wasting time and money and move on to next year.

Given the premise that someone felt that continuing to fight a losing battle against Deflategate was a wasted effort, I could very much see Belichick being "on to Cincinatti" about the whole thing, taking that premise, and working on how to build a winning strategy from that point.

Continuing? Continuing what? He never started the battle. He gave up immediately.
What you seem to not be capable of understanding is that BB moves on from a game when its over. On to Cincinnati was because nothing could be done about the game that was already over. "I choose to end the rhetoric" was the other team might get mad, so I am going to forfeit.

Don't insult the intelligence of this board by comparing moving forward from a loss with not trying to win.

 

[Tony2046]

What? When Spygate happened Belichick admitted to everything. The next time he even brought it up publicly was when he was asked about it 7 years later at a press conference for Deflategate. And he hasn't since.

With deflategate his press conferences amounted to "I don't know, you have to ask Tom".

Man. You are full of it. There is no way you missed the Mona Lisa Devito speech. Which of course was a classic and a basic science class for the media.

 

[Tony2046]

What? When Spygate happened Belichick admitted to everything. The next time he even brought it up publicly was when he was asked about it 7 years later at a press conference for Deflategate. And he hasn't since.

With deflategate his press conferences amounted to "I don't know, you have to ask Tom".

Admitted to a placement of the camera. Hence Camera location gate.

 

[Ring 6]

Once again, $$$$ and don't rock the boat was the strategy. And the idea that BB was part of this "strategy" is absurd. He focused on the games, and when they handed him the lemons of missing Brady for 4 weeks, he did what he always does and made lemonade.

I dont understand the overwhelming need to make excuses for Kraft.
No one has ever explained to me why Kraft did not appeal the punishment.
It cant be $$ because he did the Wells report in context and paid for that and never used it. Why not present it an appeal?

Dont rock the boat? Really? Are we honestly saying that the correct approach for an NFL owner when he is penalized $1,000,000 2 draft picks and his GOAT is suspended (and blatantly called a liar btw) is FOR DOING NOTHING was to do nothing because it might make others unhappy?

If that is the case what if Goodell decided, under Article 46 in the best interest of the game:

1) The Patriots should forfeit the Raider game because they had an unfair advantage by practicing in C Springs?
2) The Patriots lose next years 1st round pick because of the damage Aaron Hernandez did to the shield.
3) The Patriots should lose picks because a team accused them of not being accurate with injury reports, an they did a bs investigation that proved nothing.
4) And since ny of these are BBs second offense, he is suspended for a year.

None of these are any more ludicrous than Deflategate. Would you say that if these happened Kraft should 'choose to end the rhetoric' and accept the punishment without any type of appeal or fight because he shouldn't rock the boat?

 

[Tony2046]

I dont understand the overwhelming need to make excuses for Kraft.
No one has ever explained to me why Kraft did not appeal the punishment.
It cant be $$ because he did the Wells report in context and paid for that and never used it. Why not present it an appeal?

Dont rock the boat? Really? Are we honestly saying that the correct approach for an NFL owner when he is penalized $1,000,000 2 draft picks and his GOAT is suspended (and blatantly called a liar btw) is FOR DOING NOTHING was to do nothing because it might make others unhappy?

If that is the case what if Goodell decided, under Article 46 in the best interest of the game:

1) The Patriots should forfeit the Raider game because they had an unfair advantage by practicing in C Springs?
2) The Patriots lose next years 1st round pick because of the damage Aaron Hernandez did to the shield.
3) The Patriots should lose picks because a team accused them of not being accurate with injury reports, an they did a bs investigation that proved nothing.
4) And since ny of these are BBs second offense, he is suspended for a year.

None of these are any more ludicrous than Deflategate. Would you say that if these happened Kraft should 'choose to end the rhetoric' and accept the punishment without any type of appeal or fight because he shouldn't rock the boat?

Actually those four infractions were avoided when Kraft utilized his strategic nuclear hug. Thank God.

 

[Ring 6]

Actually those four infractions were avoided when Kraft utilized his strategic nuclear hug. Thank God.

The old thank you for punishing me for doing nothing, I still love you move that people think is 'winning'?

 

[Ring 6]

I really don't know what you and those who agree with you expected Kraft to do.He had zero effective options.

11 of the possibilites were posted before and are quoted below

At least cutting a deal with Goodell gave him a chance to salvage the situation, even if it ultimately didn't work.

He didn't cut a deal. He accepted the penalty and publicly announced he will do nothing to dispute it.

Going to the mat for Brady would ultimately accomplish nothing, Goodell had made it clear that this was a hill he was prepared to die on and Kraft didn't have nearly enough power or influence to stop him doing so.

Goodell did not make that clear. What Goodell made clear was that he thinks Tom Brady is a cheater and a liar, and that he can buy a phony investigation to bolster his reputation for the Ray Rice fiasco.

Strategically his only viable option was to attempt to turn the whole thing into a briar patch.

No

Let him have your way, try to turn the whole thing to his advantage, in other words. And that, through accident or design, he accomplished.

How is losing on all counts, and getting punished for doing nothing, and taking it without objection turning it to his advantage?
He achieved absolutely zero advantage.

That strategy is best accomplished by appearing disarmingly meek while you measure out the rope on which your opponent will hang himself. And either through Kraft's design or Goodell's idiocy, that's exactly what the Commissioner's Office did.

Is this the hurt the other guys hand by letting him pound you in the face strategy?
Kraft accomplished nothing. Goodell won, and has suffered absolutely zero harm from this. Kraft has become a joke among his fans and other owners, and is now championing an extension and large raise for Goodell. When exactly does this bizarre strategy get Kraft back something more valuable than the money, picks and Tom Bradys reputation?
You seem to just be making things up and wishing they were true.

I’ll amswer this one. I wanted him to:

1) appeal the punishment
2) conduct an investigation by a legitimate source to show the experiments wells bought from exponent were phony
3) NOT tell the world that what is best for all the 32 teams is more important to him than what is best for the patriots. This is essentially saying he will not support his own franchise.
4) show up and testify for Brady’s appeal
5) stop hugging and praising goodell
6) state publicly that if goodell and the other owners insist on sticking it to brady and The patriots for doing nothing then he will make it his business to come after them
7) not allow the league to not correct the false reports
8) tell his staff to not honor pash’s ridiculous demand that they not make the findings public
9) insert himself into the investigation to keep goodell and pash from purchase a fake report using phony science, lies and misstatements.
10) conduct a scientific experiment publicly during cold weather games to show the exact effect of cold weather on air pressure in footballs which would match the results of that day
11) during his appeal ask the questions that Wells glossed over, such as did pash edit, how could the ref possibly confuses the gauges with the marked differences in the needles. As well as the many flaws in the wells report.

I could go on.

 

[PatsDeb]

I dont understand the overwhelming need to make excuses for Kraft.
No one has ever explained to me why Kraft did not appeal the punishment.
It cant be $$ because he did the Wells report in context and paid for that and never used it. Why not present it an appeal?

Dont rock the boat? Really? Are we honestly saying that the correct approach for an NFL owner when he is penalized $1,000,000 2 draft picks and his GOAT is suspended (and blatantly called a liar btw) is FOR DOING NOTHING was to do nothing because it might make others unhappy?

If that is the case what if Goodell decided, under Article 46 in the best interest of the game:

1) The Patriots should forfeit the Raider game because they had an unfair advantage by practicing in C Springs?
2) The Patriots lose next years 1st round pick because of the damage Aaron Hernandez did to the shield.
3) The Patriots should lose picks because a team accused them of not being accurate with injury reports, an they did a bs investigation that proved nothing.
4) And since ny of these are BBs second offense, he is suspended for a year.

None of these are any more ludicrous than Deflategate. Would you say that if these happened Kraft should 'choose to end the rhetoric' and accept the punishment without any type of appeal or fight because he shouldn't rock the boat?

I think you misunderstood my post. I am not defending Kraft - quite the contrary. I agree with you and am disgusted that he didn't appeal or do SOMETHING other than bend over. My point was Kraft wants to maintain his status in the NFL - $$$$ and "don't rock the boat" of power was his "strategy." I was responding to Tony's post that he doesn't get why Kraft didn't do more.

 

[Ring 6]

I think you misunderstood my post. I am not defending Kraft - quite the contrary. I agree with you and am disgusted that he didn't appeal or do SOMETHING other than bend over. My point was Kraft wants to maintain his status in the NFL - $$$$ and "don't rock the boat" of power was his "strategy." I was responding to Tony's post that he doesn't get why Kraft didn't do more.

Gotcha. I'm just saying if that was his strategy it wasn't very bright because it hurt him more than it helped him.

 

[lancerman]

Man. You are full of it. There is no way you missed the Mona Lisa Devito speech. Which of course was a classic and a basic science class for the media.

Belichick
-had a press conference where he he said he knew nothing about it and said they'd have to ask Tom about the ball preparation.
-Later had a second press conference talking about the ideal gas law and made the Mona Lisa Vito comment.
-Never talked about it again.

Kraft:
-publicly challenged the league to find any proof of wrongdoing or to completely exonerate them and publicly apologize.
-Denied Wells access to more interviews from McNally and Jastremski.
-Publicly state that he disagreed with the leagues conclusion and found the punishment egregious.
-Released a counter Wells report going through literally every instance of the report to pick it apart.
-again disagreed with the court's decision.

In what world could someone be delusional enough to think Belichick did more than Kraft or that he totally didn't just pass the buck to Brady when he had a whole press conference that was "I don't know anything, you have to talk to Tom".

 

[Ring 6]

Belichick
-had a press conference where he he said he knew nothing about it and said they'd have to ask Tom about the ball preparation.
-Later had a second press conference talking about the ideal gas law and made the Mona Lisa Vito comment.
-Never talked about it again.

He did not have a press conference where he said ask Tom. He was asked a question about ball preparation and he said he is not involved and you would have to ask Brady.
He followed that with an INVESTIGATION AND SERIES OF EXPERIMENTS to disprove anything happened.
There is no reason for him to talk about it again, he is not the owner.

Kraft:
-publicly challenged the league to find any proof of wrongdoing or to completely exonerate them and publicly apologize.

They found no legitimate proof, they laughed at his request for an apology, and he 'decided to end the rhetoric and not appeal the penalites"

-Denied Wells access to more interviews from McNally and Jastremski.

Actually his attorney did, but how is this a good thing? It was cited as a lack of cooperation.
How does not allowing access to them help when they are the ones who are being accused and they did nothing?
This is another one of the mistakes he made.

-Publicly state that he disagreed with the leagues conclusion and found the punishment egregious.

At the same time he said he is accepting them without any appeal. At the same time he said its better for the other 31 teams if the Patriots and Brady get railroaded so he is cool with it.

-Released a counter Wells report going through literally every instance of the report to pick it apart.

After he refused to appeal. The Wells report in context was a joke because it was never used for anything. If he wasn't a giant vagina he would have delivered in at his appeal hearing, then had Brady fold it into his own. This is a great example of something he SHOULD HAVE DONE that really would have helped but CHOSE not to. Its akin to running away from your beat down yelling "Your lucky i didn't kick your ass'

-again disagreed with the court's decision.

After refusing Bradys attorneys request to appear and testify at his hearing because he didn't want to come back a few hours early, and then refusing to testify by phone as well. You seriously are giving him credit for saying 'the court was wrong' after months of doing nothing?

In what world could someone be delusional enough to think Belichick did more than Kraft or that he totally didn't just pass the buck to Brady when he had a whole press conference that was "I don't know anything, you have to talk to Tom".

It was the owners job to fight penalties to his franchise. Your memory of the talk to Tom comment is atrocious.

 

[lancerman]

How can the standard be that someone must clearly articulate how something that wasn't attempted would turn out?
No one knows. I can 'clearly articulate' many possiblilities, but as we saw in Bradys 2 trials, no one can predict what would happem.

However, let me 'clearly articulate' some possibilities.

1) Had Kraft put up a fight over Spygate, which we can all agree was not even a violation, even if he lost, he could have set a tone with the new commissioner that he was not someone who would bend over when made a target.
2) Had he proceeded with a relationship with Goodell as what you should have with someone who unjustly screwed you to build their reputation, instead of hugging him at every opportunity and signing his praises, he probably would not have been an easy mark.
3) Had he inserted himself into the investigation on Deflategate early, he may have turned the tide. First, it is obscene that he allowed the league to refuse to refute the report of the actual measurements. A McDonalds assistant manager should have been able to handle that one, with the people that work in the league office of the league he owns 1/32 of.
4) Had he appealed the penalty he could have actually done something with the response to the Wells report that was not mere pr bs. Introducing all of those facts and science at an appeal hearing couldn't be ignored. Even if he lost, the evidence he submitted would have been folded into the Brady appeal, and then been part of his court case. Instead Brady went to court with the only 'evidence' being the Wells report and Goodells love of it.
5) Had 4 happened perhaps Justice Douchebag would not have found the evidence compelling if not overwhelming.
6) Had he accepted Bradys request to appear as a witness at his trial, perhaps he would have had an impact other than looking like he was distancing himself from a guilty man while publicly saying things like "I hope all our players will be able to play".
7) Had he publicly denounced Goodell perhaps it might have had an impact, perhaps not, but if nothing else it would have made fans feel better and would have had a chance to get him out of the job. Publicly praising him and blaming the lawyers isnt getting us a new commissioner who doesnt live to target this team for things it didn't do.

There are more, but those are a few 'clearly articulated; items, none of which would have had any negative impact whatsoever on him or his franchise.

1. You are being incredibly generous with Spygate. It was a stupid punishment, but the rule was broken. It probably had no effect whatsoever, but there was a rule in place, there was a memo reminding everyone that the rule would be enforced. The only defense was that Belichick did have the camera in a location that was in violation of the rule but he misinterpreted certain features of the rule.

Also both Kraft and Belichick apologized for Spygate. It was pretty open and shut. But the idea that Kraft fighting it would set a precedent is pretty baseless. It is just as likely it pisses the owners off and makes him more of a target. You seem to have this weird fantasy that fighting the other owners and commissioner who are the only people who could collective have power over Kraft would somehow not put them at odds. Seems massively counter intuitive.

He did not have a press conference where he said ask Tom. He was asked a question about ball preparation and he said he is not involved and you would have to ask Brady.
He followed that with an INVESTIGATION AND SERIES OF EXPERIMENTS to disprove anything happened.
There is no reason for him to talk about it again, he is not the owner.


They found no legitimate proof, they laughed at his request for an apology, and he 'decided to end the rhetoric and not appeal the penalites"




Actually his attorney did, but how is this a good thing? It was cited as a lack of cooperation.
How does not allowing access to them help when they are the ones who are being accused and they did nothing?
This is another one of the mistakes he made.




At the same time he said he is accepting them without any appeal. At the same time he said its better for the other 31 teams if the Patriots and Brady get railroaded so he is cool with it.




After he refused to appeal. The Wells report in context was a joke because it was never used for anything. If he wasn't a giant vagina he would have delivered in at his appeal hearing, then had Brady fold it into his own. This is a great example of something he SHOULD HAVE DONE that really would have helped but CHOSE not to. Its akin to running away from your beat down yelling "Your lucky i didn't kick your ass'





After refusing Bradys attorneys request to appear and testify at his hearing because he didn't want to come back a few hours early, and then refusing to testify by phone as well. You seriously are giving him credit for saying 'the court was wrong' after months of doing nothing?



It was the owners job to fight penalties to his franchise. Your memory of the talk to Tom comment is atrocious.

An appeal would have failed. Stop parroting that he should have appealed. Every legal analyst said it would fail and unless you think you are more intelligent than them and all of Kraft's lawyers (in which case I'd love to see your legal credentials) then I don't know why you keep saying he should do something that by every expert opinion had a slim to none chance of succeeding.

 

[Ring 6]

1. You are being incredibly generous with Spygate. It was a stupid punishment, but the rule was broken.

It really wasn't.
First of all the only rule in question is the placement of the camera, and secondly the league specifically stated that it prohibited filming FOR USE IN THAT GAME. The film was never used in that game.

It probably had no effect whatsoever, but there was a rule in place, there was a memo reminding everyone that the rule would be enforced. The only defense was that Belichick did have the camera in a location that was in violation of the rule but he misinterpreted certain features of the rule.

When you are informed that you cannot film from any other location FOR USE IN THAT GAME and you do not use the film in that game its not a 'feature of a rule' its a specified condition.

Also both Kraft and Belichick apologized for Spygate.

You are joking right? That was their punishment. They were forced to.

It was pretty open and shut.

Not even close.

But the idea that Kraft fighting it would set a precedent is pretty baseless.

Right because when Goodell needed a target to repair his damaged reputation, he didn't see Bendover Bob sitting there, after being screwed the first time Goodell needed a pelt and taking it, then supporting Goodell every chance he can get.
Its very obvious. Goodell knew he needed to screw someone, and when Kraft became a potential target he knew he could do it without resistance. And that is EXACTLY what he got.
Now Kraft is fighting with the guy who wanted to fire Goodell. Like a good little ***** should.

It is just as likely it pisses the owners off and makes him more of a target. You seem to have this weird fantasy that fighting the other owners and commissioner who are the only people who could collective have power over Kraft would somehow not put them at odds. Seems massively counter intuitive.

I want him to stand up for the rights of his franchise. Being the victim and enjoying it because it makes the other owners happy helps no one and only makes him a laughing stock
The right thing to do is stand up when you are being railroaded, not move out of the way and then hug the railroader.

An appeal would have failed. Stop parroting that he should have appealed. Every legal analyst said it would fail and unless you think you are more intelligent than them and all of Kraft's lawyers (in which case I'd love to see your legal credentials) then I don't know why you keep saying he should do something that by every expert opinion had a slim to none chance of succeeding.

You have no way of knowing whether an appeal would have failed. Please give me all of these legal analysts (or one because you wont even find that) who said that Kraft appealing the penalty to the NFL and putting on a defense much like the Wells report in context would have failed. You are literally making that up.
Krafts lawyers did not advise him to not appeal. Kraft chose to not appeal because whats food for 32 is more important than whats good for 1. It had nothing to do with lawyers, it had everything to do with the owners telling him to shut up and take his medicine and him cowering to that.

Stop making things up.

Additionally if Kraft had appealed and used the Wells report in context, which severely refutes the Wells findings, Brady could have added that to his appeal and it would have been part of the record. Considering he won the first time and lost 2-1 the second with one of the judges calling the evidence compelling of not overwhelming, because all he has was the wells report, and no rebuttal to it, there is a very good chance that would have made a difference,

 

[Angelpats]

I dont understand the overwhelming need to make excuses for Kraft.
No one has ever explained to me why Kraft did not appeal the punishment.
It cant be $$ because he did the Wells report in context and paid for that and never used it. Why not present it an appeal?

Dont rock the boat? Really? Are we honestly saying that the correct approach for an NFL owner when he is penalized $1,000,000 2 draft picks and his GOAT is suspended (and blatantly called a liar btw) is FOR DOING NOTHING was to do nothing because it might make others unhappy?

If that is the case what if Goodell decided, under Article 46 in the best interest of the game:

1) The Patriots should forfeit the Raider game because they had an unfair advantage by practicing in C Springs?
2) The Patriots lose next years 1st round pick because of the damage Aaron Hernandez did to the shield.
3) The Patriots should lose picks because a team accused them of not being accurate with injury reports, an they did a bs investigation that proved nothing.
4) And since ny of these are BBs second offense, he is suspended for a year.

None of these are any more ludicrous than Deflategate. Would you say that if these happened Kraft should 'choose to end the rhetoric' and accept the punishment without any type of appeal or fight because he shouldn't rock the boat?

Wells report in context would have been useful in the appeal but when the commissioner says it's not about air pressure anymore but about his power to do what he wants the context of it all goes down the drain. I don't know how you can give someone that much power and that much money and submit to his every whim and be ok with it. Yes he helps make the league money but a lot of people can do the same job and better.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Once again, how has Goodell himself been instrumental in making the league money?

 

[Tony2046]

I think you misunderstood my post. I am not defending Kraft - quite the contrary. I agree with you and am disgusted that he didn't appeal or do SOMETHING other than bend over. My point was Kraft wants to maintain his status in the NFL - $$$$ and "don't rock the boat" of power was his "strategy." I was responding to Tony's post that he doesn't get why Kraft didn't do more.

That is exactly what he did. And it was the weakest moment of his professional life.

I guess I could ask why he didn't do less. Less hugging, less praising and less supporting.