This is why the Patriots won't trade Jimmy G in 2017

[XLIX]

Only on patsfans.com is the (6 quarters played) backup QB going to command the top overall pick in the draft or hold out next year instead of collecting 24m dollars.

This is the same forum that actually had people who thought Mallett would bring back a first rounder. Because, you know, he was coached up in a great system and studied behind Brady and all.

So you have to make an "adjustment factor" when people in here determine what they think a player is worth.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Looks like cleveland has lost hope in acquiring Jimmy G. The pats insist on keeping him for 2017, which is what adam schefter has been saying all along.

Jimmy Garoppolo trade rumors: Browns do not believe there is 'any hope' to land QB, per report

 

[AzPatsFan]

How do you figure? Are you apart of the Pats upper management? Do you regularly attend coach, GM, Director of pro personnel meetings?? Has BB tipped you in regards to whom the Pats will be selecting in the 2018-2020 NFL drafts??? Lastly, how do you know exactly what draft picks the Pats will have in the coming years??? No, you do not!

Also, are you ASSUMING that just because we draft late in the first every year, that we will not have the draft capital/ ammo to move up when Darnold declares for the draft??? Remember, who knows what compensation we'll get via a Jimmy G trade or whatever BB has up his "cut off; yet never-ending" sleeves.

So yea... SAM DARNOLD.

Do the Pats have three high First round picks to be in a position to draft this "wunderkin" ? No. Do they have the First pick in the 2018 draft, NO?

They have ZERO chance of drafting Darnold. And what if he busts, 2 out of 3 First Round QBs do just that. Polo has already proved he is no bust. He may not turn out to be a solid franchise QB, but we know that he is already a starter quality QB.

You D raftniks amaze me. Glad that BB is no such Fool.

 

[Patsgofor4]

Looks like cleveland has lost hope in acquiring Jimmy G. The pats insist on keeping him for 2017, which is what adam schefter has been saying all along.

Jimmy Garoppolo trade rumors: Browns do not believe there is 'any hope' to land QB, per report

This is likely because BB believes that it IS possible that Jimmy G could lead them to a SB championship, in the event of a Brady injury. That is the most logical conclusion one can draw from their steadfast refusal to trade their back up quarterback, no matter what the return.

But BB is just being a moron, because Andy Johnson says that there is no way (0.0%) that Garoppolo could win a SB next year. GOAT my ass.

 

[rochrist]

Only on patsfans.com is the (6 quarters played) backup QB going to command the top overall pick in the draft or hold out next year instead of collecting 24m dollars.

I've really got to find a .gif or meme of Belichick's "************" moment, because it looks like it's going to be a long offseason.

And yet, teams have traded multiple high draft picks for guys who haven't even /practiced/ in the NFL for ONE day.

 

[supafly]

If he has teams willing to trade for him and give him a long term contract of course he will use whatever leverage he has.
Do you really think he wants to sit on the bench for 5 years?
The point of holding out (really just not signing the tag) is to force the patriots hand and let him negotiate where he wants to be traded. He certainly has the ability to excerise that leverage.

And no one would be willing to trade for any of the cheaper, much more NFL proven players who are franchised every single year? How often do they skip seasons?

Somehow, top caliber superstars like Le'Veon Bell sign the tag for 10m but Jimmy freaking Garoppolo isn't going to sign for 2.5x that in guaranteed money? C'mon. The idea is bizarre.

 

[supafly]

And yet, teams have traded multiple high draft picks for guys who haven't even /practiced/ in the NFL for ONE day.

Yes, we see teams parting with the #1 overall pick in the draft for players like that all the time.

 

[Uptown]

Do the Pats have three high First round picks to be in a position to draft this "wunderkin" ? No. Do they have the First pick in the 2018 draft, NO?

They have ZERO chance of drafting Darnold. And what if he busts, 2 out of 3 First Round QBs do just that. Polo has already proved he is no bust. He may not turn out to be a solid franchise QB, but we know that he is already a starter quality QB.

You D raftniks amaze me. Glad that BB is no such Fool.

People who don't read amaze me too lol

 

[Ring 6]

And no one would be willing to trade for any of the cheaper, much more NFL proven players who are franchised every single year? How often do they skip seasons?

Again, we presume that there is interest in garoppolo at least along the lines of osweiler or Glennon. Not sure why you think he would skip a season.
What I am saying is waiting and trying to franchise and trade him is a path filled with land mines.
If he is tagged for the purpose of trading it's a very real chance he won't sign it because that way he can control where he is traded.
If he is tagged to spend a 5th year as a backup I could easily see him holding out because he feels he is screwed.

Somehow, top caliber superstars like Le'Veon Bell sign the tag for 10m but Jimmy freaking Garoppolo isn't going to sign for 2.5x that in guaranteed money? C'mon. The idea is bizarre.

It's a totally different scenario. Bell is the starting RB playing for that contract.
Garoppolo would not sign to control his trade choices or to force the teams hand to trade him rather than sit on the bench another year.

 

[supafly]

Again, we presume that there is interest in garoppolo at least along the lines of osweiler or Glennon. Not sure why you think he would skip a season.
What I am saying is waiting and trying to franchise and trade him is a path filled with land mines.
If he is tagged for the purpose of trading it's a very real chance he won't sign it because that way he can control where he is traded.
If he is tagged to spend a 5th year as a backup I could easily see him holding out because he feels he is screwed.


It's a totally different scenario. Bell is the starting RB playing for that contract.
Garoppolo would not sign to control his trade choices or to force the teams hand to trade him rather than sit on the bench another year.

I'm not sure how the idea came up about him sitting out a season (I was stating that no one ever does that. I wasn't being literal) or being paid 24m to sit on the bench, but I highly doubt that Garoppolo refuses to sign the franchise tag under any scenario, particularly the one we're discussing here via tag/trade.

At any rate, I don't want to get roped too far in yet another JG thread. Whatever happens is going to happen, and we all have our own opinion as to what the best decision would be, but even your own comparison to Glennon proves that there would still be a market next season, even if they may not recoup as high of a pick. Either way, we started this convo with you stating that "we could lose him and get nothing in return," and I respectfully disagree. I don't think that happens.

 

[rochrist]

Yes, we see teams parting with the #1 overall pick in the draft for players like that all the time.

Well, to begin with, I'm not advocating or expecting to be able to get the #1 overall pick. Multiple high picks could mean #12 and I don't know, #45.

History has shown that can easily happen.

The Browns traded #4, #118, #139 and #211 to move up ONE spot for a bad running back. ONE spot.

The Chargers traded #3, #8, #33, Eric Metcalf and Patrick Sapp for #2 (Ryan Leaf). Again, to move up ONE spot to draft a guy who hadn't even PRACTICED in the NFL, let along played.

The Redskins traded 2012 #6 and #39, 2013 #22 and 2014 #2 for #2 (RGIII). Here they actually moved up 4 spots. Again for a guy who'd never practiced a minute, let alone played.

 

[supafly]

Well, to begin with, I'm not advocating or expecting to be able to get the #1 overall pick. Multiple high picks could mean #12 and I don't know, #45.

History has shown that can easily happen.

The Browns traded #4, #118, #139 and #211 to move up ONE spot for a bad running back. ONE spot.

The Chargers traded #3, #8, #33, Eric Metcalf and Patrick Sapp for #2 (Ryan Leaf). Again, to move up ONE spot to draft a guy who hadn't even PRACTICED in the NFL, let along played.

The Redskins traded 2012 #6 and #39, 2013 #22 and 2014 #2 for #2 (RGIII). Here they actually moved up 4 spots. Again for a guy who'd never practiced a minute, let alone played.

Fair response, but 2 things:

1) Most importantly--You responded to a post where I specifically pointed out the ridiculousness of the #1 overall pick, so that's what we were discussing.

2) All you're doing is using examples where a team moved up in the draft. We all know that happens every year. Give some examples (aside from Charlie Whitehurst, who was traded for a 2nd IIRC) where a team gave up **** tons of high round picks for another team's backup QB. Obviously, it would be a rare occurrence, if it's ever happened at all.

 

[rochrist]

Fair response, but 2 things:

1) Most importantly--You responded to a post where I specifically pointed out the ridiculousness of the #1 overall pick, so that's what we were discussing.

2) All you're doing is using examples where a team moved up in the draft. We all know that happens every year. Give some examples (aside from Charlie Whitehurst, who was traded for a 2nd IIRC) where a team gave up **** tons of high round picks for another team's backup QB. Obviously, it would be a rare occurrence, if it's ever happened at all.

Off the top of my head (well,, not entirely, I looked up what number the pick was , the Packers traded #19 for Favre. He was a second rounder like JG, and that was based on 2GP, 4 ATT, 0 CMP.

 

[IllegalContact]

I see no possible way that you could get more for garapollo next year than his year. The patriots will be over a barrel. They can't keep a backup at 24 million. I don't think any team in their right mind would trade for him without an agreement for a long term deal in place. But why would Jimmy agree to that? He can refuse and end up a free agent where he can write his own deal. Not to mention if I'm jimmy I do not want my new team to give up a ton to get me when I can just play hardball, get released and let my future team keep its picks.

We may literally get nothing at all for him if we do not trade him this year.

As to the other side if your argument it's silly to say you won't trade a player because you think other teams should be willing to offer more. The market is what it is. The decision isn't what is offered vs what you hoped for. It's what is offered vs one year of service as a backup QB and potentially getting nothing at all.

not really......they weren't over a barrel with cassell

 

[supafly]

Off the top of my head (well,, not entirely, I looked up what number the pick was , the Packers traded #19 for Favre. He was a second rounder like JG, and that was based on 2GP, 4 ATT, 0 CMP.

I certainly don't disagree with the notion that JG should fetch a first rounder, but I wonder if some aren't getting a little carried away, hence my opinion about the #1 overall pick in the draft.

 

[supafly]

not really......they weren't over a barrel with cassell

Cue the "Belichick only did that as a favor" responses.

 

[DW Toys]

Cue the "Belichick only did that as a favor" responses.

Favor? I don't know. Trust and comfort? Maybe. I think that BB is much more apt to trade with someone who he has a solid relationship with. When Reid was in Philly, they traded every year for how many years?

Bill has done many good trades. Better at obtaining NFL ready talent than he is Drafting (second round has been a slippery slope). Saying that, I scratch my head on some trades he has done.

I think there was a targeted reason Collins wound up in Siberia (Cleveland). It might have been a subtle message for those trying to impose their will on BB or their agents.....ain't gonna happen! Any poster on this forum, given the permission and contact tools, could have made a better trade. Don't even try to say different. A third comp pick for even a disgruntled All Pro LB? Nyet! Collins player well after the trade. Just because the BB sent Collins to Cleveland does not mean they are comfortable dealing with them on what could be a Franchise changing trade.

Put me in the "If he does not trade Jimmy G at the top of his value......Why?" club.

Although this does not explain the The Pats won't Trade anything for Jimmy G nonsense, a possible reason might be to further monetize a trade and wait until the trade deadline and see if what happened to the Vikings happens to another Team? Perhaps a top desperate Team with daunting QB needs, will pay even more of a ransom. This way for the Pats, you are wearing a belt and suspenders. A half year of JG with a clipboard as QB protection, OK .....now gamble the balance of the season Brady stays healthy.

He also might like the kid enough to not see the Browns as a place for JG to perhaps fail with that organization (BB with a heart? Preposterous...... I know)

My point Cousins?Anyone with logical thinking will see that JG is at the apex of value and my above two reasons not to trade him above are reaching for straws. How many years, even when in TBs mid thirties and after his knee injury, did BB gamble and only keep two QBs on his roster? Is this the same BB who would not maximize his value for a kid who might not see the field in four or five years?
DW Toys

 

[supafly]

Favor? I don't know. Trust and comfort? Maybe. I think that BB is much more apt to trade with someone who he has a solid relationship with. When Reid was in Philly, they traded every year for how many years?

Bill has done many good trades. Better at obtaining NFL ready talent than he is Drafting (second round has been a slippery slope). Saying that, I scratch my head on some trades he has done.

I think there was a targeted reason Collins wound up in Siberia (Cleveland). It might have been a subtle message for those trying to impose their will on BB or their agents.....ain't gonna happen! Any poster on this forum, given the permission and contact tools, could have made a better trade. Don't even try to say different. A third comp pick for even a disgruntled All Pro LB? Nyet! Collins player well after the trade. Just because the BB sent Collins to Cleveland does not mean they are comfortable dealing with them on what could be a Franchise changing trade.

Put me in the "If he does not trade Jimmy G at the top of his value......Why?" club.

Although this does not explain the The Pats won't Trade anything for Jimmy G nonsense, a possible reason might be to further monetize a trade and wait until the trade deadline and see if what happened to the Vikings happens to another Team? Perhaps a top desperate Team with daunting QB needs, will pay even more of a ransom. This way for the Pats, you are wearing a belt and suspenders. A half year of JG with a clipboard as QB protection, OK .....now gamble the balance of the season Brady stays healthy.

He also might like the kid enough to not see the Browns as a place for JG to perhaps fail with that organization (BB with a heart? Preposterous...... I know)

My point Cousins?Anyone with logical thinking will see that JG is at the apex of value and my above two reasons not to trade him above are reaching for straws. How many years, even when in TBs mid thirties and after his knee injury, did BB gamble and only keep two QBs on his roster? Is this the same BB who would not maximize his value for a kid who might not see the field in four or five years?
DW Toys

Fine points, DW, but my response was more in the vein of why Cassel would only fetch a 2nd rounder after having such a solid, proven season.

 

[DW Toys]

Fine points, DW, but my response was more in the vein of why Cassel would only fetch a 2nd rounder after having such a solid, proven season.

I agree. Thought he was worth more.
DW Toys

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Fine points, DW, but my response was more in the vein of why Cassel would only fetch a 2nd rounder after having such a solid, proven season.

I agree. Thought he was worth more.
DW Toys

Many of us thought Matt was worth more, including me. Admittedly I didn't reach the ludicrous heights of user Pushing Pencils who guaranteed "Two 1st round picks" for Cassel. Epic!
That said it's clear that we, pats fans in general, over value our players. Understandable, we're fans. What that tells me is that if JAG is still here in September it is not as some have said that BB is keeping him because he's considering moving on from the GOAT in 2018 but that the REAL trade offers were too low, q.v. say 2nd round such that having JAG as a disaster recovery backup system had more value especially given that he MIGHT fetch a 3rd round comp pick for "free" eventually.