This is why the Patriots won't trade Jimmy G in 2017

[AzPatsFan]

The probability of JG becoming a HoF candidate like those two other guys is very very low. I hope it's all posturing.

I agree. But Garappolo has an outstanding compact and lightening fast release, approaching Marino-like.

I always say that 90% of QBing is played between the ears, and Polo, the Eyetalion Stallion, has displayed leadership, smarts and Star power. These are prerequisites to being a franchise QB, which I think he has become.

 

[Simpelton]

Has become? Not yet he hasn't. Get back to me after he can do it over a full season despite the best opposing defenses can do to him. It's that last bit that the injury really calls into question. A guy who can't stay healthy on the field is no franchise quarterback no matter how flashy he is when he is on the field. I do think his injury was a fluke, but he needs to PROVE that it's a fluke before he deserves that particular label (franchise QB)

 

[Real World]

I don't know what was being offered, but if #12 was put out there by Cleveland, the Pats should have traded JG. I don't think he's going to be worth more than he is now. Not unless he plays, and plays well. I think that's something none of us want to see happen, cuz it means TB will have gotten injured. Of course, in BB I trust, and obviously they've thought this through in every direction.

 

[Simpelton]

That's the thing though. The fact losing Brady is not a thing we want to see happen doesn't actually entitle us to fail to prepare for it.

Brady is a single point of failure, which was fine when he was 30 because he takes such good care of itself that it's super unlikely to come up, but at 40 it's simply a bigger risk than it used to be and will only get bigger. Not saying replace him or anything, but I am saying Brady's impending end of career is a risk that needs to be managed properly with a good backup, well schooled and ready to go if needed -- at least one of these available at all times if possibl;e.

A lot depends on Jacoby Brissett. If he's good enough to be a backup that could realistically take snaps in the NFL, or looks to be close to becoming one, then you have freedom to trade Garoppolo. I don't think you have that freedom to trade Jimmy G until you know a little more about Brissett than we currently do.

 

[deroc5050]

Yes its a dead horse indeed but its a slow time for NFL news. And there are going to be many butt hurt people in the media and some on these boards if JG is still on the Patriots in 2017 as the back up.

 

[deroc5050]

That's the thing though. The fact losing Brady is not a thing we want to see happen doesn't actually entitle us to fail to prepare for it.

Brady is a single point of failure, which was fine when he was 30 because he takes such good care of itself that it's super unlikely to come up, but at 40 it's simply a bigger risk than it used to be and will only get bigger. Not saying replace him or anything, but I am saying Brady's impending end of career is a risk that needs to be managed properly with a good backup, well schooled and ready to go if needed -- at least one of these available at all times if possibl;e.

A lot depends on Jacoby Brissett. If he's good enough to be a backup that could realistically take snaps in the NFL, or looks to be close to becoming one, then you have freedom to trade Garoppolo. I don't think you have that freedom to trade Jimmy G until you know a little more about Brissett than we currently do.

I don't think Jacoby is ready to play more than a game or 2 unless he has dramatically improved which seems doubtful.

#12 pick and 2 2nd rounders or something equivalent seems like a lot to pass up if your the Patriots. I believe Adam for some reason, the Patriots are not playing hardball they are simply not trading JG. And this is why everyone is questioning whats going on.

 

[PatriotDynasty99]

How many years does Brady have left? How many years does Belichick have left? I'm guessing it's pretty close -- 3, 4, 5 years, tops for both. Why not cash in now with draft picks for JG and field the best team possible in those years?

 

[supafly]

I don't know what was being offered, but if #12 was put out there by Cleveland, the Pats should have traded JG. I don't think he's going to be worth more than he is now. Not unless he plays, and plays well. I think that's something none of us want to see happen, cuz it means TB will have gotten injured. Of course, in BB I trust, and obviously they've thought this through in every direction.

I agree with you on all of the above. If, indeed, the #12th overall pick were available for our unproven backup QB, I'd have to assume that Belichick would gladly have jumped on it.

Any prospective teams would need to weigh the idea of a rookie they could potentially mold on the cheap for 5 yrs, versus trading that pick for Garoppolo and paying him 15+ million starting in 2018. The decision may not be as easy as some are assuming.

 

[supafly]

How many years does Brady have left? How many years does Belichick have left? I'm guessing it's pretty close -- 3, 4, 5 years, tops for both. Why not cash in now with draft picks for JG and field the best team possible in those years?

In a worst case scenario they should almost certainly see a comp pick return of a 3rd rounder from him if they mainly focus on retaining their own during the next period of free agency, and that isn't even bringing the Malcolm Butler situation into account, who would certainly help the equation even more.

For all we know, someone may only be offering a 2nd rounder, or a 2nd rounder plus a mid/late round pick or player. Aside from 20+ yrs ago when Green Bay gave up the 19th pick for Brett Favre (credit goes to @rochrist, if I recall correctly), when has an NFL team ever once given up a first rounder for a backup QB, let alone some of the ridiculous projections that some have made around here?

Why do people continue to believe that a "package" of high round picks are on the table for a backup QB who has played a little more than one professional game? Even more importantly, why do they believe that this would occur one year prior to him hitting the open market in free agency?

Using your own logic, it certainly makes some sense that he may be going into the year with the best team possible, strong backup QB position included. If there's anywhere near the demand that's being assumed next spring, he could always be tagged and traded. No rush to make a decision right now when we may be talking about the difference of only one round in the draft. From now on, I'm going to assume that Belichick has worked all of this out in his head; after all, he gets paid handsomely to do so.

 

[sb1]

I agree. But Garappolo has an outstanding compact and lightening fast release, approaching Marino-like.

I always say that 90% of QBing is played between the ears, and Polo, the Eyetalion Stallion, has displayed leadership, smarts and Star power. These are prerequisites to being a franchise QB, which I think he has become.

There is no evidence whatsoever at this time that JG is anything close to resembling a franchise QB.

 

[luuked]

How many years does Brady have left? How many years does Belichick have left? I'm guessing it's pretty close -- 3, 4, 5 years, tops for both. Why not cash in now with draft picks for JG and field the best team possible in those years?

Jesus.

Go to archived threads from 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2015 and you will see exactly the same shortsighted questions. Boy am I happy that we didn't follow those suggestions back then otherwise we'd be the Saints right now.

 

[sb1]

Cassel led the team to an 11-5 record with back-to-back 400+ yard games where he threw 6 TDs and 1 INT during that stretch. The team scored 48 and 31 points in those two games. One of the games also saw him rush for 64 yards.

He also had another back-to-back game moment at the end of the season where the team scored 49 and 47 points. During those two games (weeks 15 and 16) he had a 7 TD to 1 INT ratio. More importantly, he proved good leadership as he helped the team get close to a postseason appearance by leading them to a 5-1 record over the last six games. That included winning the last 4 in a row to close the season out.

He had 7 games (almost half) where he had at least a 103.4 QB rating. To say that it's "not even debatable" would be awfully generous to Garoppolo's 1.5 games, and that's putting it mildly, to say the least.

Yep.

I suspect most Patriot fan criticism of Matt Cassell's 2008 season is a natural reaction to uninformed takes about Tom Brady - and you know what they are - and that's understandable. But Cassell was playing some very good football especially near the end of the season, much better than he was earlier and the offense was clicking. You can't write off a 40 point blowout of the soon to be NFC Champions.

That Patriots team was not a Super Bowl team but to say Cassell was anything less than impressive is revisionist history.

 

[luuked]

Yep.

I suspect most Patriot fan criticism of Matt Cassell's 2008 season is a natural reaction to uninformed takes about Tom Brady - and you know what they are - and that's understandable. But Cassell was playing some very good football especially near the end of the season, much better than he was earlier and the offense was clicking. You can't write off a 40 point blowout of the soon to be NFC Champions.

That Patriots team was not a Super Bowl team but to say Cassell was anything less than impressive is revisionist history.

I think there is healthy middle between the hot takes of how bad Cassel was and what you have written. He was more than competent but just didn't have that could elevate the team. That being said, there was also a ****ton of unfortunate things happening in the games we lost.

 

[sb1]

I think there is healthy middle between the hot takes of how bad Cassel was and what you have written. He was more than competent but just didn't have that could elevate the team. That being said, there was also a ****ton of unfortunate things happening in the games we lost.

I agree if you look at the season as a whole and I also never felt the 2008 Patriots were a Super Bowl team or even a team that can go deep in the playoffs with Cassell mostly because the team was unable to beat most of the better teams in the league... but I really feel like he was playing some good football near the end, and that offense was clicking. Whatever system that BB and Josh had created for MC was working well.

 

[ivanvamp]

Fun trade concept here: Barnwell's 2017 All-Trades Mock Draft: Deals for all 32 teams

"
Patriots get: 1-1, 2018 conditional fourth-round pick, WR Josh Gordon (from Browns)
Saints get: CB Malcolm Butler (from Patriots); 2-53, QB Cody Kessler(from Browns)
Browns get: QB Jimmy Garoppolo, 2018 conditional fifth-round pick (from Patriots); 1-11, 3-76, LB Stephone Anthony (from Saints)

This is a three-way trade designed to solve everyone's problems. The Patriots are biding their time with Garoppolo and Butler, both of whom are due to hit unrestricted free agency in 2018 and attract deals the Patriots would be unlikely to match. It's possible the Patriots could franchise Garoppolo, but as I've written about in the past, it's at least difficult to imagine agent Don Yee -- who represents both Garoppolo and Tom Brady -- wanting to keep his quarterbacks on the same team.

The Patriots have floated their desire to get multiple first-round picks for Garoppolo and the 12th overall selection for Butler, but it's hard to see how they have the leverage to pull all of that off, given how teams know they can go after these guys next year while the Patriots will only be left with a pair of third-round compensatory selections in the 2019 draft as a result. The dream of getting three first-round picks for their star players was always going to be hard to pull off, but in this deal, the Patriots settle for the top selection in a draft with a few options at No. 1.

Bill Belichick loves trading down, which he could then do and amass additional selections in what is projected to be a deep class, but he can also just stay put and draft a franchise pass-rusher in Myles Garrett at a relative position of need for the Patriots. Not a bad fallback plan. We'll give the Pats Carolina's fourth-round pick in 2018 through Cleveland, with the selection conditionally improving to a third-round pick (if Garoppolo takes 70 percent of the offensive snaps) or even as high as Houston's second-round pick (if Garoppolo makes the Pro Bowl). They also take a flyer on Gordon, whose story is well-documented; the Browns have publicly wavered on bringing back the troubled wideout, but the Patriots have taken a risk on players before, and Gordon's production would make him a franchise-caliber wideout if he stayed on the straight and narrow.

The Saints want Butler, but they don't want to trade the 11th pick, a straight-up deal, for the privilege of acquiring the Super Bowl XLIX hero. They're giving up Anthony, but they soften the blow of losing the 11th selection by moving up 24 picks into the middle of the second round and acquiring Tennessee's second-round selection. We'll also send them Kessler, who was reasonably competent for the Browns in eight starts, albeit all winless. Kessler gives them a developmental prospect behind Drew Brees and Chase Daniel.

The Browns get their franchise quarterback while moving down 10 spots in the first round, leaving them with consecutive selections at 11 and 12. They miss out on Garrett, of course, but in a draft that is deep with pass-rushers, Cleveland shouldn't have trouble adding a useful contributor with one of its six picks in the top 80. The Browns will also get a conditional fifth-rounder back from the Patriots, which should escalate if Gordon breaks out in New England; this will be a fourth-rounder if Gordon plays 50 percent of the offensive snaps and a third-rounder if he racks up 1,000 receiving yards.

They'll also make a Patriots-esque move for Anthony, who fell out of favor with new Saints defensive coordinator Dennis Allen after being taken with the 31st pick of the 2015 draft. The Patriots have gone after linebackers like Kyle Van Noy and Akeem Ayers in the past, but Anthony's a better fit in a 3-4 at inside linebacker, where the Browns can slot him alongside Jamie Collins. This trade is nuts, and there are too many moving parts for it to ever happen. That doesn't make it unfair or implausible."


Hmmmm.... so the Pats give up Butler and JG (essentially), and get back the #1 pick (using it on Garrett) and Gordon (who they don't need but sure, what the hell).

 

[DW Toys]

Fun trade concept here: Barnwell's 2017 All-Trades Mock Draft: Deals for all 32 teams

"
Patriots get: 1-1, 2018 conditional fourth-round pick, WR Josh Gordon (from Browns)
Saints get: CB Malcolm Butler (from Patriots); 2-53, QB Cody Kessler(from Browns)
Browns get: QB Jimmy Garoppolo, 2018 conditional fifth-round pick (from Patriots); 1-11, 3-76, LB Stephone Anthony (from Saints)

This is a three-way trade designed to solve everyone's problems. The Patriots are biding their time with Garoppolo and Butler, both of whom are due to hit unrestricted free agency in 2018 and attract deals the Patriots would be unlikely to match. It's possible the Patriots could franchise Garoppolo, but as I've written about in the past, it's at least difficult to imagine agent Don Yee -- who represents both Garoppolo and Tom Brady -- wanting to keep his quarterbacks on the same team.

The Patriots have floated their desire to get multiple first-round picks for Garoppolo and the 12th overall selection for Butler, but it's hard to see how they have the leverage to pull all of that off, given how teams know they can go after these guys next year while the Patriots will only be left with a pair of third-round compensatory selections in the 2019 draft as a result. The dream of getting three first-round picks for their star players was always going to be hard to pull off, but in this deal, the Patriots settle for the top selection in a draft with a few options at No. 1.

Bill Belichick loves trading down, which he could then do and amass additional selections in what is projected to be a deep class, but he can also just stay put and draft a franchise pass-rusher in Myles Garrett at a relative position of need for the Patriots. Not a bad fallback plan. We'll give the Pats Carolina's fourth-round pick in 2018 through Cleveland, with the selection conditionally improving to a third-round pick (if Garoppolo takes 70 percent of the offensive snaps) or even as high as Houston's second-round pick (if Garoppolo makes the Pro Bowl). They also take a flyer on Gordon, whose story is well-documented; the Browns have publicly wavered on bringing back the troubled wideout, but the Patriots have taken a risk on players before, and Gordon's production would make him a franchise-caliber wideout if he stayed on the straight and narrow.

The Saints want Butler, but they don't want to trade the 11th pick, a straight-up deal, for the privilege of acquiring the Super Bowl XLIX hero. They're giving up Anthony, but they soften the blow of losing the 11th selection by moving up 24 picks into the middle of the second round and acquiring Tennessee's second-round selection. We'll also send them Kessler, who was reasonably competent for the Browns in eight starts, albeit all winless. Kessler gives them a developmental prospect behind Drew Brees and Chase Daniel.

The Browns get their franchise quarterback while moving down 10 spots in the first round, leaving them with consecutive selections at 11 and 12. They miss out on Garrett, of course, but in a draft that is deep with pass-rushers, Cleveland shouldn't have trouble adding a useful contributor with one of its six picks in the top 80. The Browns will also get a conditional fifth-rounder back from the Patriots, which should escalate if Gordon breaks out in New England; this will be a fourth-rounder if Gordon plays 50 percent of the offensive snaps and a third-rounder if he racks up 1,000 receiving yards.

They'll also make a Patriots-esque move for Anthony, who fell out of favor with new Saints defensive coordinator Dennis Allen after being taken with the 31st pick of the 2015 draft. The Patriots have gone after linebackers like Kyle Van Noy and Akeem Ayers in the past, but Anthony's a better fit in a 3-4 at inside linebacker, where the Browns can slot him alongside Jamie Collins. This trade is nuts, and there are too many moving parts for it to ever happen. That doesn't make it unfair or implausible."


Hmmmm.... so the Pats give up Butler and JG (essentially), and get back the #1 pick (using it on Garrett) and Gordon (who they don't need but sure, what the hell).

 

[jboston19]

It's an interesting idea, but if they truly value Jimmy as worth more than the #1 alone as some rumors have, then giving up him plus an excellent cb for the 1, the right to move up a round (probably closer to 60 spots) in the 2018 draft, and a talented but unstable wr that's still suspended (He hasn't been reinstated yet,right?) doesn't seem like it'd peak the Pats interest.

 

[DW Toys]

Fun trade concept here: Barnwell's 2017 All-Trades Mock Draft: Deals for all 32 teams

"
Patriots get: 1-1, 2018 conditional fourth-round pick, WR Josh Gordon (from Browns)
Saints get: CB Malcolm Butler (from Patriots); 2-53, QB Cody Kessler(from Browns)
Browns get: QB Jimmy Garoppolo, 2018 conditional fifth-round pick (from Patriots); 1-11, 3-76, LB Stephone Anthony (from Saints)

This is a three-way trade designed to solve everyone's problems. The Patriots are biding their time with Garoppolo and Butler, both of whom are due to hit unrestricted free agency in 2018 and attract deals the Patriots would be unlikely to match. It's possible the Patriots could franchise Garoppolo, but as I've written about in the past, it's at least difficult to imagine agent Don Yee -- who represents both Garoppolo and Tom Brady -- wanting to keep his quarterbacks on the same team.

The Patriots have floated their desire to get multiple first-round picks for Garoppolo and the 12th overall selection for Butler, but it's hard to see how they have the leverage to pull all of that off, given how teams know they can go after these guys next year while the Patriots will only be left with a pair of third-round compensatory selections in the 2019 draft as a result. The dream of getting three first-round picks for their star players was always going to be hard to pull off, but in this deal, the Patriots settle for the top selection in a draft with a few options at No. 1.

Bill Belichick loves trading down, which he could then do and amass additional selections in what is projected to be a deep class, but he can also just stay put and draft a franchise pass-rusher in Myles Garrett at a relative position of need for the Patriots. Not a bad fallback plan. We'll give the Pats Carolina's fourth-round pick in 2018 through Cleveland, with the selection conditionally improving to a third-round pick (if Garoppolo takes 70 percent of the offensive snaps) or even as high as Houston's second-round pick (if Garoppolo makes the Pro Bowl). They also take a flyer on Gordon, whose story is well-documented; the Browns have publicly wavered on bringing back the troubled wideout, but the Patriots have taken a risk on players before, and Gordon's production would make him a franchise-caliber wideout if he stayed on the straight and narrow.

The Saints want Butler, but they don't want to trade the 11th pick, a straight-up deal, for the privilege of acquiring the Super Bowl XLIX hero. They're giving up Anthony, but they soften the blow of losing the 11th selection by moving up 24 picks into the middle of the second round and acquiring Tennessee's second-round selection. We'll also send them Kessler, who was reasonably competent for the Browns in eight starts, albeit all winless. Kessler gives them a developmental prospect behind Drew Brees and Chase Daniel.

The Browns get their franchise quarterback while moving down 10 spots in the first round, leaving them with consecutive selections at 11 and 12. They miss out on Garrett, of course, but in a draft that is deep with pass-rushers, Cleveland shouldn't have trouble adding a useful contributor with one of its six picks in the top 80. The Browns will also get a conditional fifth-rounder back from the Patriots, which should escalate if Gordon breaks out in New England; this will be a fourth-rounder if Gordon plays 50 percent of the offensive snaps and a third-rounder if he racks up 1,000 receiving yards.

They'll also make a Patriots-esque move for Anthony, who fell out of favor with new Saints defensive coordinator Dennis Allen after being taken with the 31st pick of the 2015 draft. The Patriots have gone after linebackers like Kyle Van Noy and Akeem Ayers in the past, but Anthony's a better fit in a 3-4 at inside linebacker, where the Browns can slot him alongside Jamie Collins. This trade is nuts, and there are too many moving parts for it to ever happen. That doesn't make it unfair or implausible."


Hmmmm.... so the Pats give up Butler and JG (essentially), and get back the #1 pick (using it on Garrett) and Gordon (who they don't need but sure, what the hell).

 

[rochrist]

Why do people continue to believe that a "package" of high round picks are on the table for a backup QB who has played a little more than one professional game? Even more importantly, why do they believe that this would occur one year prior to him hitting the open market in free agency?

Well, an argument can be made for each of those. Yes, he's a backup. Behind the GOAT. Pretty much every QB in the league WOULD be. And he's played more than one game. He's played 12 preseason games. He plays in practice. More importantly, the QBs coming out this year are a pretty sad lot. And finally, the reason to do it with one year left is A) you get a year to decide if you want to go all in or not, two if you franchise him, and B) you don't have to compete with every other team looking for a QB.

It's not all that unreasonable.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I don't know what was being offered, but if #12 was put out there by Cleveland, the Pats should have traded JG. I don't think he's going to be worth more than he is now. Not unless he plays, and plays well. I think that's something none of us want to see happen, cuz it means TB will have gotten injured. Of course, in BB I trust, and obviously they've thought this through in every direction.

The only thing we can say for certain is that BB has not received an offer he considers to be at least as valuable as having Garoppolo on the roster in 2017.