This is why the Patriots won't trade Jimmy G in 2017

[ctpatsfan77]

Even more importantly, why do they believe that this would occur one year prior to him hitting the open market in free agency?

The simple reason for that is that you may have to bid with a half-dozen teams in FA, but if you trade for him, then you can franchise him if necessary to guarantee he stays.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The only thing we can say for certain is that BB has not received an offer he considers to be at least as valuable as having Garoppolo on the roster in 2017.

Could not agree more.
That begs the question: has BB received any offers that include a 2017#1 pick? Unknown. That's the rub.
Never underestimate the stupidity of GMs in failed franchises.

 

[DW Toys]

I would still feel for them NOT to trade Jimmy G would be a tactical error.Why?
1-This is a sucky year for a QB class. If Jimmy G was in this class he might be the #1 QB. Never going to get more in return in 2018
2-You have three or four superior QBs coming out in 2018 over this year's slim pickins'.
3-You don't find a trading partner in 2018 , you wind up with that "Oh so Valuable" 3rd round comp, if that!
4-If the Draft winds of 2017 say that some Teams are considering a one year experience QB in Trubisky as the #1 pick perhaps,.....with limited college tape, why isn't Jimmy G worth the 1st round pick. Who's is the better value?
5-Financially, Jimmy could be cheaper for another Team in 2017 than an unproven....any....Draft pick at the top.
6-BB would make even one pick for Jimmy G, multiply.
7-As some have said, why do the Pats think they can get a first rounder for a QB that started 1.5 games this year?...see above.

Remember Jimmy G got hurt this year not Brady. We have kept two QB's on the roster for many seasons. It's a gamble then, and a gamble that you need to have a #1 worthy Draft pick holding a clip board, or should he be traded.

BB's mantra is.....a good value. How is holding onto a trade chip as valuable as Jimmy G, turning into a good value?

Methinks BB is loading up for another Super Bowl run in 2017, not so much years to come.

Kraft said the Team might not need a top end Draft as the players picked up so far are good young proven kids, not necessarily the aged veterans as norm. So let's add some vets to the mix instead of all picks.

Cousin, I am always absolutely intrigued by these multi trade proposals.
Good job. I enjoy these. I wish some GMs would have the stones to do these. It's job security, fan scrutiny and laziness that prevail. No GM wants to be known as the guy that orchestrated "THAT" trade. It makes you think but then realize that most of these GMs are cowards, but .....you have to play the game to win, not be comfortable.

A few months ago I put forth a realistic trade with Billy O'Brien of the Texans. I have tweaked it. It benefits both Teams with need and BB has some trust in BO. Could the Texans hurt us in the playoffs? Does our haul outweigh that disadvantage? BB has traded in his own division as you recall. This is for fun and thought. It still in sum, has us getting picks and a great player for Jimmy G. and I said a fun deal.

The Texans send DL JJ Watt (assuming he can now pass a physical but still 28 and a player BB would love to have) their First Round pick, their Second Round pick and their 2018 First Round pick AND A CONDITIONAL 2018 THIRD ROUNDER OR FOURTH PENDING GAMES JIMMY G STARTS, to the Pats for Jimmy G and CB Malcom Butler and DT Malcom Brown (who has been benched by BB to wake him up, and so far inconsistent).

Thoughts?

Both deals seam fair.

Would Watt and those two high picks in 2017 make us better in 2017? Yes. You have contemplated trading Butler anyway and Brown is replaceable......so replace him with...Watt? In a superb CB class we should get a top CB with those picks.

Yes also for the Texans. The Texans got to the Playoffs with a mediocre QB and no Watt. Clowney is coming on.
Vince is retiring most likely. Maybe BO and, Romeo and Vrable can light a fire under former first rounder, Brown's ass.
The Texans replace Bouye with Malcom Butler a two year Pro Bowler.

The Pats get their two #1s for Jimmy G and one of the best in the NFL in Watt, plus a high second rounder as they have none, plus a conditional pick to stock 2018 thank you.

Blockbuster
DW Toys

 

[Simpelton]

I don't think Jacoby is ready to play more than a game or 2 unless he has dramatically improved which seems doubtful.

#12 pick and 2 2nd rounders or something equivalent seems like a lot to pass up if your the Patriots. I believe Adam for some reason, the Patriots are not playing hardball they are simply not trading JG. And this is why everyone is questioning whats going on.

It's a lot to pass up, but as a price for leaving a hole in the roster it leaves something to be desired. We can't manage the roster as if our starting quarterback is 30. If JG was a spare part it would be ludicrouls not to trade him. Jimmy Garoppolo is not a spare part right now. He's depth. There's a difference.

 

[supafly]

Well, an argument can be made for each of those. Yes, he's a backup. Behind the GOAT. Pretty much every QB in the league WOULD be. And he's played more than one game. He's played 12 preseason games. He plays in practice. More importantly, the QBs coming out this year are a pretty sad lot. And finally, the reason to do it with one year left is A) you get a year to decide if you want to go all in or not, two if you franchise him, and B) you don't have to compete with every other team looking for a QB.

It's not all that unreasonable.

I understand the idea, but just feel as though many here are overvaluing the worth of Garoppolo to other teams, that's all. We will see. I'm on record stating that I think Belichick will pull the trigger should he receive a first round pick.

All of these "a first + a second + next year's second" projections are ridiculous to me. Do people not pay attention to moves around the league? When was the last time we saw a trade like that for anyone? It would be very rare, to say the least.

 

[supafly]

As some have said, why do the Pats think they can get a first rounder for a QB that started 1.5 games this year?...see above.

Just to clarify my personal stance if you're referring to my post: I believe the Pats can and should, get a first rounder for him, should they choose so.

I think a CLE trade down is much more likely than the 12th pick, but that's just speculating on a fan forum. What I highly disagree with, is the thought that Bill Belichick is turning down some Aaron Rodgers/Calvin Johnson-like high round, multi-pick package that includes first and second rounders for both this year and the next.

 

[carmelo15]

I would still feel for them NOT to trade Jimmy G would be a tactical error.Why?
1-This is a sucky year for a QB class. If Jimmy G was in this class he might be the #1 QB. Never going to get more in return in 2018
2-You have three or four superior QBs coming out in 2018 over this year's slim pickins'.
3-You don't find a trading partner in 2018 , you wind up with that "Oh so Valuable" 3rd round comp, if that!
4-If the Draft winds of 2017 say that some Teams are considering a one year experience QB in Trubisky as the #1 pick perhaps,.....with limited college tape, why isn't Jimmy G worth the 1st round pick. Who's is the better value?
5-Financially, Jimmy could be cheaper for another Team in 2017 than an unproven....any....Draft pick at the top.
6-BB would make even one pick for Jimmy G, multiply.
7-As some have said, why do the Pats think they can get a first rounder for a QB that started 1.5 games this year?...see above.

Remember Jimmy G got hurt this year not Brady. We have kept two QB's on the roster for many seasons. It's a gamble then, and a gamble that you need to have a #1 worthy Draft pick holding a clip board, or should he be traded.

BB's mantra is.....a good value. How is holding onto a trade chip as valuable as Jimmy G, turning into a good value?

Methinks BB is loading up for another Super Bowl run in 2017, not so much years to come.

Kraft said the Team might not need a top end Draft as the players picked up so far are good young proven kids, not necessarily the aged veterans as norm. So let's add some vets to the mix instead of all picks.

Cousin, I am always absolutely intrigued by these multi trade proposals.
Good job. I enjoy these. I wish some GMs would have the stones to do these. It's job security, fan scrutiny and laziness that prevail. No GM wants to be known as the guy that orchestrated "THAT" trade. It makes you think but then realize that most of these GMs are cowards, but .....you have to play the game to win, not be comfortable.

A few months ago I put forth a realistic trade with Billy O'Brien of the Texans. I have tweaked it. It benefits both Teams with need and BB has some trust in BO. Could the Texans hurt us in the playoffs? Does our haul outweigh that disadvantage? BB has traded in his own division as you recall. This is for fun and thought. It still in sum, has us getting picks and a great player for Jimmy G. and I said a fun deal.

The Texans send DL JJ Watt (assuming he can now pass a physical but still 28 and a player BB would love to have) their First Round pick, their Second Round pick and their 2018 First Round pick AND A CONDITIONAL 2018 THIRD ROUNDER OR FOURTH PENDING GAMES JIMMY G STARTS, to the Pats for Jimmy G and CB Malcom Butler and DT Malcom Brown (who has been benched by BB to wake him up, and so far inconsistent).

Thoughts?

Both deals seam fair.

Would Watt and those two high picks in 2017 make us better in 2017? Yes. You have contemplated trading Butler anyway and Brown is replaceable......so replace him with...Watt? In a superb CB class we should get a top CB with those picks.

Yes also for the Texans. The Texans got to the Playoffs with a mediocre QB and no Watt. Clowney is coming on.
Vince is retiring most likely. Maybe BO and, Romeo and Vrable can light a fire under former first rounder, Brown's ass.
The Texans replace Bouye with Malcom Butler a two year Pro Bowler.

The Pats get their two #1s for Jimmy G and one of the best in the NFL in Watt, plus a high second rounder as they have none, plus a conditional pick to stock 2018 thank you.

Blockbuster
DW Toys

I don't know if Texans give all that up
I'd do

Watt, 2017 1st for Garrapolo

 

[supafly]

The simple reason for that is that you may have to bid with a half-dozen teams in FA, but if you trade for him, then you can franchise him if necessary to guarantee he stays.

I think you should have included the full context of my thoughts about a prospective team giving up a package of high round picks (and then paying 24+ million next year) to do so versus simply drafting another player for 5 yrs on the cheap, but yes--of course this would be the answer, and I probably should not have worded it that way. That's my fault. You've never been one to be sarcastic in your posts, only helpful, so I do appreciate the response.

If you don't like the idea of drafting another player on a cheap 5 yr pact and are willing to spend lots of money and draft capital, then I'd think it would make more sense to bring in a proven NFL QB. Many could be had for the kinds of offers some posters are throwing around.

 

[jboston19]

I don't know if Texans give all that up
I'd do

Watt, 2017 1st for Garrapolo

I can't imagine the Texans would. While Watt's value isn't at its highest due to injuries, he's still an elite player. Jimmy and Malcom Butler they may do straight up, maybe, but I doubt it.

The Pats may not go for it, either. Taking on Watt's salary while sending out 3 on rookie deals is going to destroy the cap. They'd probably try and send Watt somewhere else if the Texans were dumb enough to do this.

 

[supafly]

I don't know if Texans give all that up
I'd do

Watt, 2017 1st for Garrapolo

JJ Watt is probably the most dominant defensive force in the NFL. He is consistently in the race for MVP of the entire league.

The idea of getting him AND a first round pick for our unproven backup QB should only be seen in the wettest of dreams.

 

[Froob]

JJ Watt is probably the most dominant defensive force in the NFL. He is consistently in the race for MVP of the entire league.

The idea of getting him AND a first round pick for our unproven backup QB should only be seen in the wettest of dreams.

JJ Watt quit after Brissett made him look like a fool. He's a loosah

 

[DW Toys]

JJ Watt is probably the most dominant defensive force in the NFL. He is consistently in the race for MVP of the entire league.

The idea of getting him AND a first round pick for our unproven backup QB should only be seen in the wettest of dreams.

OK ..........Good retort, but the idea of Watt coming back from back surgery like Gronk is always a wild card. I don't think either player will slow down, that being said.
Alright, let's toss this pie in the sky....Would you trade Jimmy and Malcom Butler for Watt?
I think the Texans would do it in a minute.
I still don't know if the Pats would. I think you would at the absolute minimum throw a second rounder in the deal. Butler does have some Pro Bowl cred.
We got along without Gronk, and they got along without Watt.
BUT, I would take the Texans 2nd and Watt for Jimmy and Butler.Take the 2nd and even trade down and get two CBs in this loaded Draft class.
Done Bill....Call the trade in! Ha!
DW Toys

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Watt is damaged goods who disappears when it's a big game, so NO!

 

[luuked]

I would still feel for them NOT to trade Jimmy G would be a tactical error.Why?
1-This is a sucky year for a QB class. If Jimmy G was in this class he might be the #1 QB. Never going to get more in return in 2018
2-You have three or four superior QBs coming out in 2018 over this year's slim pickins'.
3-You don't find a trading partner in 2018 , you wind up with that "Oh so Valuable" 3rd round comp, if that!
4-If the Draft winds of 2017 say that some Teams are considering a one year experience QB in Trubisky as the #1 pick perhaps,.....with limited college tape, why isn't Jimmy G worth the 1st round pick. Who's is the better value?
5-Financially, Jimmy could be cheaper for another Team in 2017 than an unproven....any....Draft pick at the top.
6-BB would make even one pick for Jimmy G, multiply.
7-As some have said, why do the Pats think they can get a first rounder for a QB that started 1.5 games this year?...see above.

Remember Jimmy G got hurt this year not Brady. We have kept two QB's on the roster for many seasons. It's a gamble then, and a gamble that you need to have a #1 worthy Draft pick holding a clip board, or should he be traded.

BB's mantra is.....a good value. How is holding onto a trade chip as valuable as Jimmy G, turning into a good value?

Methinks BB is loading up for another Super Bowl run in 2017, not so much years to come.

Kraft said the Team might not need a top end Draft as the players picked up so far are good young proven kids, not necessarily the aged veterans as norm. So let's add some vets to the mix instead of all picks.

Cousin, I am always absolutely intrigued by these multi trade proposals.
Good job. I enjoy these. I wish some GMs would have the stones to do these. It's job security, fan scrutiny and laziness that prevail. No GM wants to be known as the guy that orchestrated "THAT" trade. It makes you think but then realize that most of these GMs are cowards, but .....you have to play the game to win, not be comfortable.

A few months ago I put forth a realistic trade with Billy O'Brien of the Texans. I have tweaked it. It benefits both Teams with need and BB has some trust in BO. Could the Texans hurt us in the playoffs? Does our haul outweigh that disadvantage? BB has traded in his own division as you recall. This is for fun and thought. It still in sum, has us getting picks and a great player for Jimmy G. and I said a fun deal.

The Texans send DL JJ Watt (assuming he can now pass a physical but still 28 and a player BB would love to have) their First Round pick, their Second Round pick and their 2018 First Round pick AND A CONDITIONAL 2018 THIRD ROUNDER OR FOURTH PENDING GAMES JIMMY G STARTS, to the Pats for Jimmy G and CB Malcom Butler and DT Malcom Brown (who has been benched by BB to wake him up, and so far inconsistent).

Thoughts?

Both deals seam fair.

Would Watt and those two high picks in 2017 make us better in 2017? Yes. You have contemplated trading Butler anyway and Brown is replaceable......so replace him with...Watt? In a superb CB class we should get a top CB with those picks.

Yes also for the Texans. The Texans got to the Playoffs with a mediocre QB and no Watt. Clowney is coming on.
Vince is retiring most likely. Maybe BO and, Romeo and Vrable can light a fire under former first rounder, Brown's ass.
The Texans replace Bouye with Malcom Butler a two year Pro Bowler.

The Pats get their two #1s for Jimmy G and one of the best in the NFL in Watt, plus a high second rounder as they have none, plus a conditional pick to stock 2018 thank you.

Blockbuster
DW Toys

This trade would even be impossible in Madden.

But since we are living in the world of fantasy why not make the Texans add Hopkins and Clowney into the trade. Might as well, right ?

Generally, speaking I don't like Watt's contract given the injuries he has had. That's the big difference to Gronk as his contract doesn't put the team in a bind if something happens to him again.

 

[luuked]

Watt is damaged goods who disappears when it's a big game, so NO!

To be fair I think that BB would utilize him better than anyone that coached Watt so far. But yeah he is often invisible in big games.

 

[DW Toys]

To be fair I think that BB would utilize him better than anyone that coached Watt so far. But yeah he is often invisible in big games.

All things being equal, wouldn't most Teams double or triple team Watt so he can't control the line of scrimmage and dominate in a "big game"? BB would try to take him out of the game?
So in chess you might sacrifice your "Watt" to save your knight, which is the "free" single players for the win.
DW Toys

 

[Ring 6]

Watt is damaged goods who disappears when it's a big game, so NO!

Watt has played 5 playoff games has 5 sacks a pick 6 and basically his exact regular season tackle average.

 

[AzPatsFan]

That's the thing though. The fact losing Brady is not a thing we want to see happen doesn't actually entitle us to fail to prepare for it.

Brady is a single point of failure, which was fine when he was 30 because he takes such good care of itself that it's super unlikely to come up, but at 40 it's simply a bigger risk than it used to be and will only get bigger. Not saying replace him or anything, but I am saying Brady's impending end of career is a risk that needs to be managed properly with a good backup, well schooled and ready to go if needed -- at least one of these available at all times if possibl;e.

A lot depends on Jacoby Brissett. If he's good enough to be a backup that could realistically take snaps in the NFL, or looks to be close to becoming one, then you have freedom to trade Garoppolo. I don't think you have that freedom to trade Jimmy G until you know a little more about Brissett than we currently do.

Another season of "seasoning" will allow a better measure of Brisetts progress. The Pats cant find as good or as cheap an insurance policy as Polo is in the 2017 season. The going price for a playable backp QB seems to be about $10 million a year...

 

[AzPatsFan]

I understand the idea, but just feel as though many here are overvaluing the worth of Garoppolo to other teams, that's all. We will see. I'm on record stating that I think Belichick will pull the trigger should he receive a first round pick.

All of these "a first + a second + next year's second" projections are ridiculous to me. Do people not pay attention to moves around the league? When was the last time we saw a trade like that for anyone? It would be very rare, to say the least.

I can think of two more expensive QB trade prices,just off the top of my head. Goff and RGIII each cost three First Round picks... They may be "rediculous" to you; but genuine GMs paid those genuine prices, not some desk bound GM wannabe.

 

[supafly]

I can think of two more expensive QB trade prices,just off the top of my head. Goff and RGIII each cost three First Round picks... They may be "rediculous" to you; but genuine GMs paid those genuine prices, not some desk bound GM wannabe.

Again, for about the 100th time, those were examples of another team moving up in the draft. Nothing more. Tell me all about teams giving up major draft capital for a backup QB. Actually, tell me about teams giving up major draft capital like what you're suggesting for ANY player, recently. You can't.

And to take it even one step further, you aren't correct about what it cost to move up for Goff: Here's how the Rams, Titans made out from the blockbuster Jared Goff trade