The Coaching Staff

[mayoclinic]

This has been discussed before, but I came across 2 recent items that reminded me about how good and deep the Patriots coaching staff is:

Up-and-coming coach explains decision to stay with Patriots

Ashton Grant decided to stay put despite some offensive coordinator interest.

www.patspulpit.com

The Patriots called about A.J. Brown for 2 years and were 'laughed at.' Now, the ex-Eagles WR is practicing with them

Patriots executive Eliot Wolf is relishing the opportunity work with a receiver he's had his eye on since his college days. "All right, he's still got some juice.'"

sports.yahoo.com

This second article mentions that WR coach Todd Downing was AJ Brown's OC in Tennessee with Mike Vrabel. I was not aware of that.

The coaching staff under Jerod Mayo was a joke. BB had some great staff, but also some head-scratchers (Matt Patricia as OC comes to mind, among others). Mike Vrabel seems to have put together a deep, experienced, and personally connected crew.

To highlight a few:

Mike Vrabel, HC: DC, Texans (2017). HC, Titans (2018-2024). Sets the tone and the culture, very driven, player oriented.

Terrell Williams, Assistant HC: DL coach, Raiders (2012-2014), Dolphins (2015-2017) and Titans under Vrabel (2018-2023). Assistant HC, Titans (2023). DC, Patriots (2025).

Josh McDaniels, OC: OC, Patriots, 2006-2008 (while Vrabel was a player). HC, Broncos, 2009-2010. OC, Ramsey, 2011. OC Patriots, 2012-2021. HC, Raiders, 2022-2023.

Doug Marrone, OL Coach: OL. Coach, Jets (2002-2005) and Saints (2006-2007). OC, Saints, 207-2007. HC, Syracuse, 2009-2012. HC, Bills, 2013-2014. OL and Assistant H, Jacksonville, 2015-2016, became interim HC. HC, Jacksonville, 2017-2020. OL coach, Saints, 2022.

Thomas Brown, TE Coach: RB and Assistant HC, Rams (2021-2022). OC, Carolina (2023). OC and Interim HC, Bears (2024). Viewed as a potential future HC candidate.

Todd Dowling, WR Coach: Served as OC for the Raiders (2017) and for the Titans under Vrabel (2021-2022).

Ashton Grant, QB Coach: A relatively young coach, worked with Vrabel in Cleveland (2024). Apparently viewed as a future OC.

Zak Kuhr, DC: Worked with Vrabel in Tennessee from 2020-2023. Was interim DC last year with Terrell Williams out, did well enough to earn the full time job.

It's a nice mix of experience and creative young minds, a lot of experience with Vrabel, and probably one of the better coaching weapons in the NFL. I think it's an under-appreciated asset.

 

[rkarp1]

I maintain among the numerous problems/shortcomings Mayo may have had, his biggest downfall was his inability to construct a competent staff

 

[Brady85-23]

Would be cool if jim Schwartz gets put on the defensive staff next year

 

[mayoclinic]

The fact that the Pats did not make a run at Jim Schwartz this year also shows how highly they regard Zak Kuhr.

 

[FortressX]

Would be cool if jim Schwartz gets put on the defensive staff next year

Too many chefs spoil ...

 

[Brady85-23]

The fact that the Pats did not make a run at Jim Schwartz this year also shows how highly they regard Zak Kuhr.

I think Schwartz has to sit out a year or stay with the browns. But maybe next year.

 

[Brady85-23]

Too many chefs spoil ...

Possibly. But all it takes is 1 or more seasons of good coaching by Kur and some team will snag him

 

[Zuma]

This has been discussed before, but I came across 2 recent items that reminded me about how good and deep the Patriots coaching staff is:

Up-and-coming coach explains decision to stay with Patriots

Ashton Grant decided to stay put despite some offensive coordinator interest.

www.patspulpit.com

The Patriots called about A.J. Brown for 2 years and were 'laughed at.' Now, the ex-Eagles WR is practicing with them

Patriots executive Eliot Wolf is relishing the opportunity work with a receiver he's had his eye on since his college days. "All right, he's still got some juice.'"

sports.yahoo.com

This second article mentions that WR coach Todd Downing was AJ Brown's OC in Tennessee with Mike Vrabel. I was not aware of that.

The coaching staff under Jerod Mayo was a joke. BB had some great staff, but also some head-scratchers (Matt Patricia as OC comes to mind, among others). Mike Vrabel seems to have put together a deep, experienced, and personally connected crew.

To highlight a few:

Mike Vrabel, HC: DC, Texans (2017). HC, Titans (2018-2024). Sets the tone and the culture, very driven, player oriented.

Terrell Williams, Assistant HC: DL coach, Raiders (2012-2014), Dolphins (2015-2017) and Titans under Vrabel (2018-2023). Assistant HC, Titans (2023). DC, Patriots (2025).

Josh McDaniels, OC: OC, Patriots, 2006-2008 (while Vrabel was a player). HC, Broncos, 2009-2010. OC, Ramsey, 2011. OC Patriots, 2012-2021. HC, Raiders, 2022-2023.

Doug Marrone, OL Coach: OL. Coach, Jets (2002-2005) and Saints (2006-2007). OC, Saints, 207-2007. HC, Syracuse, 2009-2012. HC, Bills, 2013-2014. OL and Assistant H, Jacksonville, 2015-2016, became interim HC. HC, Jacksonville, 2017-2020. OL coach, Saints, 2022.

Thomas Brown, TE Coach: RB and Assistant HC, Rams (2021-2022). OC, Carolina (2023). OC and Interim HC, Bears (2024). Viewed as a potential future HC candidate.

Todd Dowling, WR Coach: Served as OC for the Raiders (2017) and for the Titans under Vrabel (2021-2022).

Ashton Grant, QB Coach: A relatively young coach, worked with Vrabel in Cleveland (2024). Apparently viewed as a future OC.

Zak Kuhr, DC: Worked with Vrabel in Tennessee from 2020-2023. Was interim DC last year with Terrell Williams out, did well enough to earn the full time job.

It's a nice mix of experience and creative young minds, a lot of experience with Vrabel, and probably one of the better coaching weapons in the NFL. I think it's an under-appreciated asset.

I was going to mention the Dowling - Brown connection when I saw the 2 talking a lot at practice (presumably about the differences between the Titans and Patriots offense) but I didn't bother for whatever reason. Glad you did

 

[mgteich]

Possibly. But all it takes is 1 or more seasons of good coaching by Kur and some team will snag him

snag Kuhr as a HC? naah

 

[mayoclinic]

Kuhr is already a DC. The Pats are protected from someone else snagging him, unless as a HC. He's a long way from that.

 

[Brady85-23]

Kuhr is already a DC. The Pats are protected from someone else snagging him, unless as a HC. He's a long way from that.

Your Probably right. But the head coaching turnover rate has been crazy recently. And the trends are young up and comer coaches.
If he coaches 2 more seasons of great Defense it wouldn't surprise me one bit.
One of the biggest reasons for belichecks downfall is his front office and coaching staff was constantly getting plucked. Thats what happens with good teams and im assuming the patriots are good again. Either way Shwartz would be an awesome addition to the D next year he has experience with Vrabel.

 

[rkarp1]

Your Probably right. But the head coaching turnover rate has been crazy recently. And the trends are young up and comer coaches.
If he coaches 2 more seasons of great Defense it wouldn't surprise me one bit.
One of the biggest reasons for belichecks downfall is his front office and coaching staff was constantly getting plucked. Thats what happens with good teams and im assuming the patriots are good again. Either way Shwartz would be an awesome addition to the D next year he has experience with Vrabel.

2 years perhaps.
but a good HC hire comes with "who are you bringing".
we saw first hand with Mayo, if the answer is "no one"...it will be a bad hire.
my assumption is that someone like Kuhr, today, is connected with a couple of the Pats defensive staff who feel they need a change/are blocked. in an offensive league, much, much more is needed.

I thought Bill's demise was related to his unwillingness to expand his staff to new ideas. by maintaining a small staff season over season, the pipeline was thin. at the end, we saw friends, relatives and sons of friends on staff. thinking back on it, why wasn't Vrabel on staff post Titans?

 

[upstater1]

"He's still got some juice."

I certainly hope so!

 

[Clonamery]

Kuhr is already a DC. The Pats are protected from someone else snagging him, unless as a HC. He's a long way from that.

That's been said many times in the NFL. Name an owner that's patient.

 

[Wozzy]

2 years perhaps.
but a good HC hire comes with "who are you bringing".
we saw first hand with Mayo, if the answer is "no one"...it will be a bad hire.
my assumption is that someone like Kuhr, today, is connected with a couple of the Pats defensive staff who feel they need a change/are blocked. in an offensive league, much, much more is needed.

I thought Bill's demise was related to his unwillingness to expand his staff to new ideas. by maintaining a small staff season over season, the pipeline was thin. at the end, we saw friends, relatives and sons of friends on staff. thinking back on it, why wasn't Vrabel on staff post Titans?

No coach wants to work for a head coach who is unqualified or who they know they are far smarter and more experienced than. We saw that with Mayo, he was an incompetent inexperienced boob.

We watched BB coach up young coaches for two decades. Coaching the coaches is the job.

 

[rkarp1]

No coach wants to work for a head coach who is unqualified or who they know they are far smarter and more experienced than. We saw that with Mayo, he was an incompetent inexperienced boob.

We watched BB coach up young coaches for two decades. Coaching the coaches in the job.

those almost 2 decades, he most certainly did
what happened those last 3-4 years?
did Bill lose interest?
did the young coaches tune him out
why someone like Klemm? Why MattP as the OC?
some of Bill's coaching decisions were as bad as his draft decisions

 

[Wozzy]

those almost 2 decades, he most certainly did
what happened those last 3-4 years?
did Bill lose interest?
did the young coaches tune him out
why someone like Klemm? Why MattP as the OC?
some of Bill's coaching decisions were as bad as his draft decisions

The last 3-4 years Jonathan meddled… collaboration.

Notice during the last 3-4 years the defense remained one of the best units in the league.

Jonathan and Wolf wanted the West Coast system, Bill called the system “easy to defend” but he tried to play along with Jon and Wolfie. He made a half hearted attempt and gave up because it was a stupid idea.

When BB was gone they hired Mayo and ran what offensive system? West Coast.. the plan all along.

After it failed miserably they hired Vrabel, took away collaboration and what system did he choose… Earnhardt-Perkins.

Owners shouldn’t meddle… we learned that decades ago with Parcells. Jonathan had to make his own mistakes and learn from them.

 

[rkarp1]

The last 3-4 years Jonathan meddled… collaboration.

Notice during the last 3-4 years the defense remained one of the best units in the league.

Jonathan and Wolf wanted the West Coast system, Bill called the system “easy to defend” but he tried to play along with Jon and Wolfie. He made a half hearted attempt and gave up because it was a stupid idea.

When BB was gone they hired Mayo and ran what offensive system? West Coast.. the plan all along.

After it failed miserably they hired Vrabel, took away collaboration and what system did he choose… Earnhardt-Perkins.

Owners shouldn’t meddle… we learned that decades ago with Parcells. Jonathan had to make his own mistakes and learn from them.

yeah, that must have been the issue
JK telling Bill what offense to run
otherwise, Bill and staff were hunky dory

 

[Wozzy]

yeah, that must have been the issue
JK telling Bill what offense to run
otherwise, Bill and staff were hunky dory

If Owners, GM and coaches aren’t on the same page you can’t win.

That’s ^ a paraphrased comment from Bill. It’s accurate.

 

[rkarp1]

If Owners, GM and coaches aren’t on the same page you can’t win.

That’s ^ a paraphrased comment from Bill. It’s accurate.

the next time Bill listens to an owner on how to run his team, will be the first time.
that's paraphrased from Bill as well