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BB knew this was a non playoff year from the start

2021 Patriots Season:
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Sun
Sep 12th

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Ochmed Jones

Pro Bowl Player
I always said this was the year to have a crap year. COVID has really done some real damage to the season. I mean Cleveland had no WRs today that were actually on the active roster two days ago playing today. We have had a team start a practice squad WR at QB a game.

I don't know if Belichick knew it is was a non-playoff year. I doubt he knew players like Hightower were going to sit out the season. But do think he knew they were cap strapped this season, but flushed with cap space next year. I think he always intended to stay pat with what he had and look to the next year to rebuild.

my only beef is if bb knew this was going to be a crap year, why didn’t he go all out to be zero and 16 and grab a generational qb like Lawrence?

Lawrence sets us up for another decade or two of total dominance!
 

PatsFanInVa

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
I don’t know who said what at this point and maybe I mistook your post. My point was Covid was a minor factor in why this team is so bad this year and a lack of talent was the main problem. I’ve just seen Covid bandied about here as an excuse for the way this season has unfolded and maybe I misconstrued your post as some of that excuse making for Bill. If that was not your initial point then I apologize for being off base.

More "part of your complete breakfast," given your focus here. All teams have been subjected, and still are, to a deadly virus, which was a huge wild card in football terms. Other teams have been hit worse, by the way, although we've been on the crappier end of the spectrum. I don't think I've seen anybody "bandy about" COVID as you say. I do think it's a pretty remarkable job this year given the inputs. With another franchise, I would have expected a collapse year.

Now that said: COVID's the bigger story than whatever happens this season, and I went in thinking it's an asterisk year. Just starting with what "home" and "away" mean, thinking it's an "excuse" misses the point. It's like if it's WWII and you are now forced to be a "Steegles" fan, and trying to pretend it's a normal year. But the fact that COVID year was combined with Year 1 AB (after Brady) probably gave me incentive to think that way. I did, by the way, think that it was very possible we'd be a 4-12 team, although I would have guessed about 8-8, given the Pats' ability to make some serious lemonade.

PS, I still think that Brady in a Bucs uni (or any non-NE uni) was a sign of the apocalypse for 2020, like the moon turning blood red, cats lying down with dogs, introversion being a Darwinian selection factor, and murder hornets. Also I was told there'd be an asteroid, but we've got 3 days.
 

Tony2046

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
my only beef is if bb knew this was going to be a crap year, why didn’t he go all out to be zero and 16 and grab a generational qb like Lawrence?

Lawrence sets us up for another decade or two of total dominance!

No. How many "generational" QBs actually work out? How many of the first round QBs over the last decade were worth tanking for?

30. Paxton Lynch

29. Josh Rosen

28. Johnny Manziel

27. Blaine Gabbert

26. Christian Ponder

25. Tim Tebow

24. EJ Manuel

23. Josh Allen

22. Jake Locker

21. Brandon Weeden

20. Lamar Jackson

19. Josh Freeman

18. Sam Darnold

17. Mark Sanchez

16. Blake Bortles

15. Teddy Bridgewater

14. Robert Griffin III

13. Sam Bradford

12. Mitchell Trubisky

11. Ryan Tannehill

10. Marcus Mariota

9. Jameis Winston

8. Carson Wentz

7. Baker Mayfield

6. Matthew Stafford

5. Andrew Luck

4. Jared Goff

3. Deshaun Watson

2. Patrick Mahomes

1. Cam Newton
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
my only beef is if bb knew this was going to be a crap year, why didn’t he go all out to be zero and 16 and grab a generational qb like Lawrence?

Lawrence sets us up for another decade or two of total dominance!
Bill would be fired if he tried to do that as would his coaching staff. And rightfully so.
 

203Pat

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
More "part of your complete breakfast," given your focus here. All teams have been subjected, and still are, to a deadly virus, which was a huge wild card in football terms. Other teams have been hit worse, by the way, although we've been on the crappier end of the spectrum. I don't think I've seen anybody "bandy about" COVID as you say. I do think it's a pretty remarkable job this year given the inputs. With another franchise, I would have expected a collapse year.

Now that said: COVID's the bigger story than whatever happens this season, and I went in thinking it's an asterisk year. Just starting with what "home" and "away" mean, thinking it's an "excuse" misses the point. It's like if it's WWII and you are now forced to be a "Steegles" fan, and trying to pretend it's a normal year. But the fact that COVID year was combined with Year 1 AB (after Brady) probably gave me incentive to think that way. I did, by the way, think that it was very possible we'd be a 4-12 team, although I would have guessed about 8-8, given the Pats' ability to make some serious lemonade.

PS, I still think that Brady in a Bucs uni (or any non-NE uni) was a sign of the apocalypse for 2020, like the moon turning blood red, cats lying down with dogs, introversion being a Darwinian selection factor, and murder hornets. Also I was told there'd be an asteroid, but we've got 3 days.
Honestly what this year showed me is how good of a coach Bill truly is. This team is severely lacking in talent and has a QB who isn't capable throwing a football anymore and Bill has managed to win at least 6 games with a chance for 8. I have been critical of Bill the GM as of late but as a coach I don’t think there is anyone even in the same ballpark as him. I just hope he is able to put together a couple solid draft classes (2020 looks to be off to a solid start) and put us in a good position when he steps down in a few years.
 

jmt57

Moderator
Staff member
I don’t think we have that much money. I think we are projected to have 70M in cap space with like 20 FA. Count around 50M if you choose to have a good veteran QB.
Due to lower revenues this year all teams are going to have to deal with a lower than anticipated cap. Contracts from previous years were based on the expectation of continued double digit annual cap growth. That is going to lead to more cap casualties across the NFL than we have seen in quite some time. As a result the Pats should have more free agents to choose from next spring.

Those lower revenues also resulted in a lowered cap figure for three seasons, through 2023. That means teams can't get around the lower 2021 cap by simply pushing a contract out a year or two.

So while the Pats number doesn't look that big by 2018 or 2019 standards, they are actually in a good cap situation for 2021, relative to the 31 other teams. For example, the only teams in the same vicinity of the Pats 2021 cap situation are the Jets, Jaguars and Colts - and Indy does not have any quarterbacks signed beyond this season.

Miami is in good shape too, but the Saints, Eagles, Falcons, Steelers, Packers, Rams, Chiefs, Raiders, Texans, Bears, Vikings and Titans could all be in a relatively difficult situation depending on what the final cap number will be. That means fewer teams will be free agent buyers, making the re-signing of players like Thuney and Andrews more achievable - as well as being able to sign veterans away from other teams.


 

Lagaffe_07

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Due to lower revenues this year all teams are going to have to deal with a lower than anticipated cap. Contracts from previous years were based on the expectation of continued double digit annual cap growth. That is going to lead to more cap casualties across the NFL than we have seen in quite some time. As a result the Pats should have more free agents to choose from next spring.

Those lower revenues also resulted in a lowered cap figure for three seasons, through 2023. That means teams can't get around the lower 2021 cap by simply pushing a contract out a year or two.

So while the Pats number doesn't look that big by 2018 or 2019 standards, they are actually in a good cap situation for 2021, relative to the 31 other teams. For example, the only teams in the same vicinity of the Pats 2021 cap situation are the Jets, Jaguars and Colts - and Indy does not have any quarterbacks signed beyond this season.

Miami is in good shape too, but the Saints, Eagles, Falcons, Steelers, Packers, Rams, Chiefs, Raiders, Texans, Bears, Vikings and Titans could all be in a relatively difficult situation depending on what the final cap number will be. That means fewer teams will be free agent buyers, making the re-signing of players like Thuney and Andrews more achievable - as well as being able to sign veterans away from other teams.


I get it but we have 20 FA. That’s a lot and on the 20 it’s not just bal end of the roster player. It’s core guys. Andrews, White, Thuney, Guy, Butler, Burkhead.

we have a lot of question with the roster and I don’t think we will be in position to target top free agent this year. I don’t think it’s good strategy to put us against the cap again with a team with a lot unknown.

my guess is Bill will resign key FA, I hope Andrews, Guy, Butler at the minimum. Have a good draft and keep cap flexibility in two years to be actors in FA to get key pieces to add to a well rounded roster.

but if you want a guy like Godwin even with the cap getting lower it will still cost around 15M in free agency to sign a guy like that.

so i don’t know if some here think that we will reload in free agency this year but I don’t think it will be the case.
 

Nehalem

In the Starting Line-Up
No. How many "generational" QBs actually work out? How many of the first round QBs over the last decade were worth tanking for?

30. Paxton Lynch

29. Josh Rosen

28. Johnny Manziel

27. Blaine Gabbert

26. Christian Ponder

25. Tim Tebow

24. EJ Manuel

23. Josh Allen

22. Jake Locker

21. Brandon Weeden

20. Lamar Jackson

19. Josh Freeman

18. Sam Darnold

17. Mark Sanchez

16. Blake Bortles

15. Teddy Bridgewater

14. Robert Griffin III

13. Sam Bradford

12. Mitchell Trubisky

11. Ryan Tannehill

10. Marcus Mariota

9. Jameis Winston

8. Carson Wentz

7. Baker Mayfield

6. Matthew Stafford

5. Andrew Luck

4. Jared Goff

3. Deshaun Watson

2. Patrick Mahomes

1. Cam Newton

I would go with one(Patrick Mahomes)

Combined those QBs have
1 SB win
1 SB loss
2 AFC finalist banners :p
 

PATSYLICIOUS

Pro Bowl Player
my only beef is if bb knew this was going to be a crap year, why didn’t he go all out to be zero and 16 and grab a generational qb like Lawrence?

Lawrence sets us up for another decade or two of total dominance!

From a personnel standpoint, he did go all out. Pretty much every costly fa from last year was let go, except thuney who was franchised (meaning no cap commitment beyond this year so doesn’t hurt cap moving forth and we can still get a comp pick if he walks). Harmon traded. Attempted to trade Gilmore per reports. And I wouldn’t be surprised to see more cap clearing moves if Chung , Hightower, cannon do not retire this offseason. Starting qb was signed for peanuts as was every other fa obtained this yr. Beyond that, what can he to do help draft position other than announcing to the team to quit / lose on purpose ? (Which I would hope he’d never do)
 

Sam Bam Cunningham

Practice Squad Player
Exactly. Even now Brady wasn't asking for "top dollar" or something. But 1 yr at $23m, come on. He wanted to be near Top-10 or so and have a 2 yr commitment. Sounds pretty ****in reasonable. Brady has been playing like a top 10 QB if not top 5 QB. He's 4th in Pass Yards, 4th in TDs, has 65%+ completion and has carried the team as he's 4th in Pass Attempts for any team.

How is it unreasonable for him to have asked top 10 QB money, ESPECIALLY when his past performance justified it. Hell he was NFL MVP in just 2017 when he was negotiating this extention in 2018. And he had JUST won a SB.

BB blew it. Pure and simple. He's now going around throwing excuses "mortgaged our future for 3 more Superbowls" BS. Well BB. Why didn't we mortgage some more and win with Brady this year as well. If 2018 SB win was lucky, we could have gotten lucky again. With Brady it's possible.
I think the story is not clear. Yes if a few years ago BB had offered a longer term commitment Brady would have accepted but by the time it got to 2020 I think Brady was fed up and wanted to move on. Did BB blow it...yes...there is no doubt the team would have been much better off with a motivated and engaged Brady on the team. BB took it for granted that he could get Brady on one year contracts forever. Kraft also blew it for allowing this to happen.
 

PATSYLICIOUS

Pro Bowl Player
I think the story is not clear. Yes if a few years ago BB had offered a longer term commitment Brady would have accepted but by the time it got to 2020 I think Brady was fed up and wanted to move on. Did BB blow it...yes...there is no doubt the team would have been much better off with a motivated and engaged Brady on the team. BB took it for granted that he could get Brady on one year contracts forever. Kraft also blew it for allowing this to happen.

I think we may have made the playoffs with brady, but like last year 1st or 2nd round exit as best. Not sure what the point of that is given our current state. Were still very weak at wr and te, lost Edelman most of this year, and our run d got even worse . Better to start the rebuild process now and work towards finding the next qb. Its better for both sides, even if tampa doesn’t have great odds of winning it all id say brady has a much better shot with them than us.
 

Satchboogie3

In the Starting Line-Up
Honestly what this year showed me is how good of a coach Bill truly is. This team is severely lacking in talent and has a QB who isn't capable throwing a football anymore and Bill has managed to win at least 6 games with a chance for 8. I have been critical of Bill the GM as of late but as a coach I don’t think there is anyone even in the same ballpark as him. I just hope he is able to put together a couple solid draft classes (2020 looks to be off to a solid start) and put us in a good position when he steps down in a few years.
And who is responsible for the roster? For letting Brady walk without a plan? Pushing Gronk into retirement without a replacement plan? For letting the offensive skill positions become the worst in maybe NFL history? It falls on Bill. You can't have it both ways.

I'd also argue that Bill bad made plenty of bone head in game decisions that have cost games, not to mention personal decisions... like sticking with Cam, despite literally fumbling away certain victory...

The sample size is small, I'll admit, but BB didn't win sh*t without Brady and now a franchise that hasn't been in the playoffs in 13 years is now in while the Pat's, who haven't missed the playoffs in 12 years, since brady missed the entire season to injury. Brady is the difference.

There's no guarantee BB can turn things around. And without a QB, history shows that it probably won't happen.
 

203Pat

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
And who is responsible for the roster? For letting Brady walk without a plan? Pushing Gronk into retirement without a replacement plan? For letting the offensive skill positions become the worst in maybe NFL history? It falls on Bill. You can't have it both ways.

I'd also argue that Bill bad made plenty of bone head in game decisions that have cost games, not to mention personal decisions... like sticking with Cam, despite literally fumbling away certain victory...

The sample size is small, I'll admit, but BB didn't win sh*t without Brady and now a franchise that hasn't been in the playoffs in 13 years is now in while the Pat's, who haven't missed the playoffs in 12 years, since brady missed the entire season to injury. Brady is the difference.

There's no guarantee BB can turn things around. And without a QB, history shows that it probably won't happen.
You're preaching to the choir on the first part of you post. The thing that worries me is that Bill will continue to build a roster the way he has for 20 years when he had the greatest QB to ever play. A rising tide lifts all boats and Brady was that tide. He is going to need to adjust because no matter what he does there is going to be a huge drop off at the most important position on the roster. The Chris Hogan's and Brandon Lafell's of the world in all likelihood won't just plug into this offense and provide 800 or so yards. You also are not likely to see veterans taking less money to come play here for a year so he is going to need to pay up in the free agent market. This roster needs a major talent infusion and I hope Bill is able to do it.
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
I get it but we have 20 FA. That’s a lot and on the 20 it’s not just bal end of the roster player. It’s core guys. Andrews, White, Thuney, Guy, Butler, Burkhead.

we have a lot of question with the roster and I don’t think we will be in position to target top free agent this year. I don’t think it’s good strategy to put us against the cap again with a team with a lot unknown.

my guess is Bill will resign key FA, I hope Andrews, Guy, Butler at the minimum. Have a good draft and keep cap flexibility in two years to be actors in FA to get key pieces to add to a well rounded roster.

but if you want a guy like Godwin even with the cap getting lower it will still cost around 15M in free agency to sign a guy like that.

so i don’t know if some here think that we will reload in free agency this year but I don’t think it will be the case.
Would love to get Godwin but the QB has to be here first. Then you can see what offense you’d like to run and maybe he’d be a fit.
 

Jimke

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Would love to get Godwin but the QB has to be here first. Then you can see what offense you’d like to run and maybe he’d be a fit.
Who is smart enough to choose the wide receivers once the quarterback is set? He currently isn't
employed by this team.
 

TheRainMaker

I'm getting my res at Dorsia
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
He really didn't even try with the signings in the offseason. Surprised not many people saw that. Hope he releases Beau Allen and especially Vitale.

Draft was pretty close as well.
 
Last edited:

Nehalem

In the Starting Line-Up
And who is responsible for the roster? For letting Brady walk without a plan? Pushing Gronk into retirement without a replacement plan? For letting the offensive skill positions become the worst in maybe NFL history? It falls on Bill. You can't have it both ways.
The whole trying to trade Gronk after 2017 is perplexing.

Honestly speaking trading Gronk would have cost us the 2018 Super Bowl. And 3 years later our TE position is the worst in the league.

In retrospect one of the worst GM moves in the history of the league. Thankfully Gronk saved us from the alternate reality.

The 2020 QB situation is honestly confusing. First after trading JG in 2017 BB didn't pick up a replacement QB in either 2018, 2019, or 2020 unless you think Stidham is the guy.

Maybe COVID ruined the Stidham succesion plan? But then I recall that Hoyer came to back to NE because he was promised a chance to compete for the starting job...o_O
 

skinnydog

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
No. How many "generational" QBs actually work out? How many of the first round QBs over the last decade were worth tanking for?

30. Paxton Lynch

29. Josh Rosen

28. Johnny Manziel

27. Blaine Gabbert

26. Christian Ponder

25. Tim Tebow

24. EJ Manuel

23. Josh Allen

22. Jake Locker

21. Brandon Weeden

20. Lamar Jackson

19. Josh Freeman

18. Sam Darnold

17. Mark Sanchez

16. Blake Bortles

15. Teddy Bridgewater

14. Robert Griffin III

13. Sam Bradford

12. Mitchell Trubisky

11. Ryan Tannehill

10. Marcus Mariota

9. Jameis Winston

8. Carson Wentz

7. Baker Mayfield

6. Matthew Stafford

5. Andrew Luck

4. Jared Goff

3. Deshaun Watson

2. Patrick Mahomes

1. Cam Newton
Uh, several on that list were worth tanking for
 

skinnydog

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
The whole trying to trade Gronk after 2017 is perplexing.

Honestly speaking trading Gronk would have cost us the 2018 Super Bowl. And 3 years later our TE position is the worst in the league.

In retrospect one of the worst GM moves in the history of the league. Thankfully Gronk saved us from the alternate reality.

The 2020 QB situation is honestly confusing. First after trading JG in 2017 BB didn't pick up a replacement QB in either 2018, 2019, or 2020 unless you think Stidham is the guy.

Maybe COVID ruined the Stidham succesion plan? But then I recall that Hoyer came to back to NE because he was promised a chance to compete for the starting job...o_O
The TE problem was a refusal to draft any TEs for multiple years despite knowing a replacement for Gronk was needed. Also bad drafting overall
 

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