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The Biggest Reason We Are Starting A Rebuild


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Wanting them to tank is no way to go through a football season, you are doomed to be forever disappointed.
They aren’t going to the playoffs, so WTF is the point? Would you rather them have more players that are on their draft board available to them or less?
 
So you say we have loads of young talent, but won’t (or can’t) name them. The fact is we have some young players who we don’t know how they’ll turn out, and about 3 (Jackson, Onwenu, Harris) that look to be good. And the most glaring thing is that we don’t have a QB.
By age, players acquired as rookies in blue...

Name Age POS Year Acquired
Dalton Keene 21 TE Rook New England Patriots / 3rd / 101st pick / 2020
Josh Uche 22 LB Rook New England Patriots / 2nd / 60th pick / 2020
J.J. Taylor 22 RB Rook
Cassh Maluia 22 LB Rook New England Patriots / 6th / 204th pick / 2020
Myles Bryant 22 DB Rook
Joejuan Williams 23 CB 1 New England Patriots / 2nd / 45th pick / 2019
Michael Onwenu 23 OL Rook New England Patriots / 6th / 182nd pick / 2020
Anfernee Jennings 23 LB Rook New England Patriots / 3rd / 87th pick / 2020
N'Keal Harry 23 WR 1 New England Patriots / 1st / 32nd pick / 2019
Damien Harris 23 RB 1 New England Patriots / 3rd / 87th pick / 2019
Jake Bailey 23 P 1 New England Patriots / 5th / 163rd pick / 2019
Isaiah Wynn 24 OT 2 New England Patriots / 1st / 23rd pick / 2018
Jarrett Stidham 24 QB 1 New England Patriots / 4th / 133rd pick / 2019
Gunner Olszewski 24 WR 1
Jakobi Meyers 24 WR 1
Hjalte Froholdt 24 OL Rook New England Patriots / 4th / 118th pick / 2019
Kyle Dugger 24 S Rook New England Patriots / 2nd / 37th pick / 2020
Byron Cowart 24 DL 1 New England Patriots / 5th / 159th pick / 2019
Ja'Whaun Bentley 24 ILB 2 New England Patriots / 5th / 143rd pick / 2018
Chase Winovich 25 EDGE 1 New England Patriots / 3rd / 77th pick / 2019

Nick Thurman 25 DT Rook
J.C. Jackson 25 DB 2
Ryan Izzo 25 TE 2 New England Patriots / 7th / 250th pick / 2018

Korey Cunningham 25 OT 2 Arizona Cardinals / 7th / 254th pick / 2018
Deatrich Wise Jr. 26 DE 3 New England Patriots / 4th / 131st pick / 2017
Derek Rivers 26 DE 2 New England Patriots / 3rd / 83rd pick / 2017
Jakob Johnson 26 FB 1
Adam Butler 26 DT 3
Shaq Mason 27 G 5 New England Patriots / 4th / 131st pick / 2015
Jonathan Jones 27 DB 4

Damiere Byrd 27 WR 4
James White 28 RB 6 New England Patriots / 4th / 130th pick / 2014
Joe Thuney 28 OG 4 New England Patriots / 3rd / 78th pick / 2016

Adrian Phillips 28 DB 6
Carl Davis 28 DT 5 Baltimore Ravens / 3rd / 90th pick / 2015
Joe Cardona 28 LS 5 New England Patriots / 5th / 166th pick / 2015
Shilique Calhoun 28 DE 4 Oakland Raiders / 3rd / 75th pick / 2016
Terrence Brooks 28 FS 6 Baltimore Ravens / 3rd / 79th pick / 2014
David Andrews 28 C 5
John Simon 30 DE 7 Baltimore Ravens / 4th / 129th pick / 2013
Lawrence Guy 30 DT 9 Green Bay Packers / 7th / 233rd pick / 2011
Stephon Gilmore 30 CB 8 Buffalo Bills / 1st / 10th pick / 2012
Rex Burkhead 30 RB 7 Cincinnati Bengals / 6th / 190th pick / 2013
Justin Bethel 30 CB 8 Arizona Cardinals / 6th / 177th pick / 2012
Cam Newton 31 QB 9 Carolina Panthers / 1st / 1st pick / 2011
James Ferentz 31 C 6
Cody Davis 31 S 7
Jason McCourty 33 DB 11 Tennessee Titans / 6th / 203rd pick / 2009
Devin McCourty 33 DB 10 New England Patriots / 1st / 27th pick / 2010
Matthew Slater 35 WR 12 New England Patriots / 5th / 153rd pick / 2008
Brian Hoyer 35 QB 11

Nick Folk 36 K 13 Dallas Cowboys / 6th / 178th pick / 2007

This team is young, the foundational players moving forward are barely old enough to drink never mind be called "busts" or not very good.

The future of this team is ahead, not behind. They need a QB.
 
Mitchell had injury concerns coming out of college and lasted a year. Harry has done nothing to warrant his 1st round selection. Once again, we haven’t drafted a WR of note since Edelman in 09.
They haven't drafted a kicker of note since Gostowski in 2006, yet had good WR play and kicking since forever.

If you don't draft a certain position group or use 6th round picks occasionally on a long shot, can you really be considered bad at it?
 
The thing that you need to understand is that no one is saying Bill sucks. No one is taking credit away from him for all he has done. What people are saying is that we are where we are right not solely because of Bill. He mismanaged the cap and the roster and now wants to make excuses for it. He "sold out"one year and that was 2019 and he had to "sell out" due to his own ineptitude. Not because Brady wanted more weapons or more money. Not because he won a bunch of Super Bowls. Because he has drafted poorly and made some very poor personnel moves. It is okay for Bill to get credit for winning Super Bowls as long as he is willing to take credit for the current state of the team but he seems to be making excuses which to be is embarrassing to say the least.
You call 4 Super Bowl appearances, 3 super bowl wins over the last five years "ineptitude." Laughable, I'd take that kind of ineptitude on the regular, so would the majority of fans of any other team.

They used every resource, they pushed money down the road to win at the end of Brady's Patriot career, all that dead money was the result of kicking the can down the road, not one bad season of money management. They structured those dead money deals the way they did because they were mortgaged to the hilt and knew this was the last gasp of the old dynasty.

Also show us the GM who hits on 80-90% of their draft picks, and I don't mean one good draft class... but annually? The draft is a crapshoot, the average NFL career lasts three years, a third of the NFL players are UDFA's, every year over a thousand applicants put their names into a hat for a job and about 200-250 players get one. A great GM will hit on 30-40% of their picks, like a great baseball hitter... so stop with the bad draft talk.

Dalton Keene is 21 years old... probably premature to call him a bust considering he doesn't have a QB worth a damn and just became old enough to crack open a cold one.

Sounds like entitlement, sounds like a "you" problem.

It's a rebuilding year, a reloading year, a year to reset the cap... deal with it.
 
You call 4 Super Bowl appearances, 3 super bowl wins over the last five years "ineptitude." Laughable, I'd take that kind of ineptitude on the regular, so would the majority of fans of any other team.

They used every resource, they pushed money down the road to win at the end of Brady's Patriot career, all that dead money was the result of kicking the can down the road, not one bad season of money management. They structured those dead money deals the way they did because they were mortgaged to the hilt and knew this was the last gasp of the old dynasty.

Also show us the GM who hits on 80-90% of their draft picks, and I don't mean one good draft class... but annually? The draft is a crapshoot, the average NFL career lasts three years, a third of the NFL players are UDFA's, every year over a thousand applicants put their names into a hat for a job and about 200-250 players get one. A great GM will hit on 30-40% of their picks, like a great baseball hitter... so stop with the bad draft talk.

Dalton Keene is 21 years old... probably premature to call him a bust considering he doesn't have a QB worth a damn and just became old enough to crack open a cold one.

Sounds like entitlement, sounds like a "you" problem.

It's a rebuilding year, a reloading year, a year to reset the cap... deal with it.
You are wasting your time with these miserable folks.
 
You call 4 Super Bowl appearances, 3 super bowl wins over the last five years "ineptitude." Laughable, I'd take that kind of ineptitude on the regular, so would the majority of fans of any other team.

They used every resource, they pushed money down the road to win at the end of Brady's Patriot career, all that dead money was the result of kicking the can down the road, not one bad season of money management. They structured those dead money deals the way they did because they were mortgaged to the hilt and knew this was the last gasp of the old dynasty.

Also show us the GM who hits on 80-90% of their draft picks, and I don't mean one good draft class... but annually? The draft is a crapshoot, the average NFL career lasts three years, a third of the NFL players are UDFA's, every year over a thousand applicants put their names into a hat for a job and about 200-250 players get one. A great GM will hit on 30-40% of their picks, like a great baseball hitter... so stop with the bad draft talk.

Dalton Keene is 21 years old... probably premature to call him a bust considering he doesn't have a QB worth a damn and just became old enough to crack open a cold one.

Sounds like entitlement, sounds like a "you" problem.

It's a rebuilding year, a reloading year, a year to reset the cap... deal with it.
You’re really not grasping this concept. No one is criticizing Bill’s coaching over this stretch. He put together good teams and still had an elite to close to elite QB for those Super Bowls. When Brady started to need more help after Gronk retired, he had a turnstile at LT for half the season, and the running game struggled Bill hadn’t restocked the cupboard.

Once again, Bill kicked the can down the road. He had a QB who always played on bargain deals and moved money around to help the team. I think Brady was the highest paid QB for one season his entire career when if he wanted to push it he could have been for at least half of it. Any cap issues once again are strictly on Bill.

No one is saying Bill needs to have a home run draft every year. He just needs to draft more than two good guards and a passing back in 5-6 years. He needs to hit on some skill position players to help out the offense. No more redshirted high round picks, we need these guys playing. His recent drafts have been flat out bad.

Who called Keene a bust? Bill won’t even put the guy on the field.
 
By age, players acquired as rookies in blue...

Name Age POS Year Acquired
Dalton Keene 21 TE Rook New England Patriots / 3rd / 101st pick / 2020
Josh Uche 22 LB Rook New England Patriots / 2nd / 60th pick / 2020
J.J. Taylor 22 RB Rook
Cassh Maluia 22 LB Rook New England Patriots / 6th / 204th pick / 2020
Myles Bryant 22 DB Rook
Joejuan Williams 23 CB 1 New England Patriots / 2nd / 45th pick / 2019
Michael Onwenu 23 OL Rook New England Patriots / 6th / 182nd pick / 2020
Anfernee Jennings 23 LB Rook New England Patriots / 3rd / 87th pick / 2020
N'Keal Harry 23 WR 1 New England Patriots / 1st / 32nd pick / 2019
Damien Harris 23 RB 1 New England Patriots / 3rd / 87th pick / 2019
Jake Bailey 23 P 1 New England Patriots / 5th / 163rd pick / 2019
Isaiah Wynn 24 OT 2 New England Patriots / 1st / 23rd pick / 2018
Jarrett Stidham 24 QB 1 New England Patriots / 4th / 133rd pick / 2019
Gunner Olszewski 24 WR 1
Jakobi Meyers 24 WR 1
Hjalte Froholdt 24 OL Rook New England Patriots / 4th / 118th pick / 2019
Kyle Dugger 24 S Rook New England Patriots / 2nd / 37th pick / 2020
Byron Cowart 24 DL 1 New England Patriots / 5th / 159th pick / 2019
Ja'Whaun Bentley 24 ILB 2 New England Patriots / 5th / 143rd pick / 2018
Chase Winovich 25 EDGE 1 New England Patriots / 3rd / 77th pick / 2019

Nick Thurman 25 DT Rook
J.C. Jackson 25 DB 2
Ryan Izzo 25 TE 2 New England Patriots / 7th / 250th pick / 2018

Korey Cunningham 25 OT 2 Arizona Cardinals / 7th / 254th pick / 2018
Deatrich Wise Jr. 26 DE 3 New England Patriots / 4th / 131st pick / 2017
Derek Rivers 26 DE 2 New England Patriots / 3rd / 83rd pick / 2017
Jakob Johnson 26 FB 1
Adam Butler 26 DT 3
Shaq Mason 27 G 5 New England Patriots / 4th / 131st pick / 2015
Jonathan Jones 27 DB 4

Damiere Byrd 27 WR 4
James White 28 RB 6 New England Patriots / 4th / 130th pick / 2014
Joe Thuney 28 OG 4 New England Patriots / 3rd / 78th pick / 2016

Adrian Phillips 28 DB 6
Carl Davis 28 DT 5 Baltimore Ravens / 3rd / 90th pick / 2015
Joe Cardona 28 LS 5 New England Patriots / 5th / 166th pick / 2015
Shilique Calhoun 28 DE 4 Oakland Raiders / 3rd / 75th pick / 2016
Terrence Brooks 28 FS 6 Baltimore Ravens / 3rd / 79th pick / 2014
David Andrews 28 C 5
John Simon 30 DE 7 Baltimore Ravens / 4th / 129th pick / 2013
Lawrence Guy 30 DT 9 Green Bay Packers / 7th / 233rd pick / 2011
Stephon Gilmore 30 CB 8 Buffalo Bills / 1st / 10th pick / 2012
Rex Burkhead 30 RB 7 Cincinnati Bengals / 6th / 190th pick / 2013
Justin Bethel 30 CB 8 Arizona Cardinals / 6th / 177th pick / 2012
Cam Newton 31 QB 9 Carolina Panthers / 1st / 1st pick / 2011
James Ferentz 31 C 6
Cody Davis 31 S 7
Jason McCourty 33 DB 11 Tennessee Titans / 6th / 203rd pick / 2009
Devin McCourty 33 DB 10 New England Patriots / 1st / 27th pick / 2010
Matthew Slater 35 WR 12 New England Patriots / 5th / 153rd pick / 2008
Brian Hoyer 35 QB 11

Nick Folk 36 K 13 Dallas Cowboys / 6th / 178th pick / 2007

This team is young, the foundational players moving forward are barely old enough to drink never mind be called "busts" or not very good.

The future of this team is ahead, not behind. They need a QB.
So you basically posted the Patriots draft picks that are on the team. By this logic every team in the league has a talented core of young players.
 
So you basically posted the Patriots draft picks that are on the team. By this logic every team in the league has a talented core of young players.
I posted the entire roster with the players acquired as rookies in blue to highlight how young this roster is.

Every team doesn't have a GM with as great a track record in roster building as BB, so there's a much better chance these young players contribute going forward.
 
I posted the entire roster with the players acquired as rookies in blue to highlight how young this roster is.

Every team doesn't have a GM with as great a track record in roster building as BB, so there's a much better chance these young players contribute going forward.

And you did a fabulous job of documenting your point.

One thing I want to add, football is like a game of tick tac toe, in that a franchise qb is the center square in the middle that everything else is built around.

if we go 2 and 14 and Jacksonville lucks into a win or two, we get to draft the best franchise qb to cone along since Peyton!

bb wants to do what is best for the team! Tanking this season should be a no brainer for him!
 
And you did a fabulous job of documenting your point.

One thing I want to add, football is like a game of tick tac toe, in that a franchise qb is the center square in the middle that everything else is built around.

if we go 2 and 14 and Jacksonville lucks into a win or two, we get to draft the best franchise qb to cone along since Peyton!

bb wants to do what is best for the team! Tanking this season should be a no brainer for him!
Yep, and last night's "victory" did us absolutely no feckin good whatsoever, regardless of what the cheerleaders might tell us...
 
15th in points per drive defensively, 20th in scoring percentage, highest turnover percentage in the league... they're far from the worst defense. But they have incurred a lot of injuries at DT (Guy, Allen, Davis) so they have no beef, they also have a ton of youth at OLB, LB and Safety (Winovich, Jennings, Uche, JoeJuan, Duggar) and their defensive backfield was missing their single best cover guy. They're headed in the wrong direction. Offensively they will only be as good or bad as Cam allows, if he builds on this mediocre victory they could improve. He's not the long-term answer going forward though. He could be the bridge guy for a high draft pick QB next year if he shows incremental improvement.

But it's a reloading year, a teaching year, a year to clear cap and prepare for 2021.

Winovich is a good example of what is really happening this year... for those wondering if BB is tanking or trying. Winovich is one of their best young defenders, but with an emphasis on young, bad habits against the run started to creep in and he had some costly penalties as well. BB sent him back to the bench to realize that a less talented player who did the right thing would play over him until he learned that the right way was the only way to do things.

Was BB tanking by not playing Winovich?

No is the answer, he was doing what was best for the team and player longterm by teaching him how to do his job. Winovich looked great against the run again last night. The LB'ers, the TE's, the Safeties... all these young draft picks need to learn how to do their jobs. And if an UDFA jag does the job more technically and fundamentally sound, even if they're not nearly as good an athlete, then BB will play the better player. He's not doing this team or the player any favors by coddling them or telling them they'll get it right the next time. This is exactly what coaching is. The team won't improve by tanking, they won't improve by playing talented but inexperienced players, they will improve by improving their level of play and execution.

The sooner you accept this, and that this was always a reloading year, the happier you will be.

They're going to incur some tough losses over the next few weeks, learn to root for the young players to learn and play better, hope to see them in the lineup by season's end and contributing, hope to see the team string together some good performances at the end of the season. If you sit there and scream how the young guys are busts or suck and BB is terrible at his job because he's not winning with a bunch of 22 year olds you're going to be sadly disappointed... more than you already are.

There is no winning this season, there is only improving.
 
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I am glad we have Bill here to tell us why he is benching talented players in favor of practice squad JAGs.
 
Your misery with this team is duly noted.
Yes I know I should be a cheerleader and be happy with a team that seemingly has no direction. Shoved an icon out the door with no plan QB, routinely have high draft picks as healthy scratches, a bunch of dead cap space, the few good players on the team are aging, and practice squad players playing over guys we really should be getting a look at. This is a rebuilding year, I am aware, so then why won't Bill let young picks play? Who cares if we lose to the Jets if we get to see Uche make a play or two? Who cares if he get torched by some crappy QB's if we find out that Duggar can fill that safety/LB hybrid Bill has been looking for? The outcome of the games doesn't really matter at this point. What matters is seeing what we have for the future. Seeing if Winovich can be an every down player and a legitimate pass rusher, seeing if Harris can be the lead back, see if either of the tight ends can play. This is what we should be doing. Bill needs to decide if we want to scrap out a win or two more and not make the playoffs or lose a couple games because Duggar let a guy run by him, or Uche got swallowed up in the running game, or one of the tight ends misses a block and still not make the playoffs.
 
Yes I know I should be a cheerleader and be happy with a team that seemingly has no direction. Shoved an icon out the door with no plan QB, routinely have high draft picks as healthy scratches, a bunch of dead cap space, the few good players on the team are aging, and practice squad players playing over guys we really should be getting a look at. This is a rebuilding year, I am aware, so then why won't Bill let young picks play? Who cares if we lose to the Jets if we get to see Uche make a play or two? Who cares if he get torched by some crappy QB's if we find out that Duggar can fill that safety/LB hybrid Bill has been looking for? The outcome of the games doesn't really matter at this point. What matters is seeing what we have for the future. Seeing if Winovich can be an every down player and a legitimate pass rusher, seeing if Harris can be the lead back, see if either of the tight ends can play. This is what we should be doing. Bill needs to decide if we want to scrap out a win or two more and not make the playoffs or lose a couple games because Duggar let a guy run by him, or Uche got swallowed up in the running game, or one of the tight ends misses a block and still not make the playoffs.
So it all comes back to Brady. Ok. Now I get it.
 
Moving on from a good QB with no plan? Yeah now you should.
I just see no pleasure from you as it pertains to this team. Zero. Only anger and frustration.
 
I just see no pleasure from you as it pertains to this team. Zero. Only anger and frustration.
When I’m talking about this team on here yes I’m annoyed and frustrated with the state of things but I don’t let the outcome of any of these games affect me in real life. I have a wife, a beautiful baby boy, a job, a house, and an all around happy life. I’d love for this team to still be chugging along but honestly I wasn’t expecting much out of them this year aside from preparing for the future. Why I’m frustrated is because we don’t really seem to be seeing what we have in place already to go forward with. So yes I’ll probably continue *****ing on here until we start to at least find a direction but there isn’t anyone I know in real life who as into the Patriots as I am so I get my fix here.
 
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