Car@NE - Rewatch Thread

[Kontradiction]

I hope that Branch can return to form in the next couple of games. This just doesnt look good at all.

Yeah he's either still playing injured or is declining. He IS up there. It would be great if Butler of Brown can improve and relegate Branch to more rotational duty.

 

[Ring 6]

I think that at this point, it's no longer an X and O problem. It's a chemistry problem, it's a trust issue.

It's a total x and o problem. When people dont cover the right man you can't be successful.

I think that as mentioned, the wild card is Gilmore. He clearly is experiencing severe cultural shock, not just from the big change in terminology, complexity of schemes, but also the culture, the accountability, which he probably never had in Buffalo. He is being called out in ways he probably never imagined possible.

This assumes a lot. I have not seen any player or coach call him out. Can you show me these?

We took him out of Buffalo, but the question here is, can we take the Buffalo out of him?

This tweet by Hurley is not encouraging at all:

It's all speculation. Someone blew a coverage. Must have been Gilmore.

It would be interesting to see how they proceed from here. I believe that if Rowe is good to go for Thursday (highly doubtful), Gilmore will be benched.

Not gonna happen.

But if not, I wonder how we can proceed from this point on- do we simply isolate Gilmore on a man (TB's 2nd best player) the entire game, and all over the field, and play our regular covers with the rest of our backfield? As both Harmon and MCD have mentioned the defense has been simplified as much as it possibly can, but this is not helping at all.

If you look at the tape McCourty seems as or more likely to be the culprit.
Of course the answer is we play the defense that will best stop them and get it right. Problems happen in football and they get fixed.

If the mini-bye doesn't improve things, I wouldn't be surprised if we picked up the phone and dialed Revis's number.

Revis who was worse last year than Gilmore has been this year? Revis who can't cover anyone if he is in the right rught position? Revis who doesn't want to play football any more?
We would activate someone off the practice squad before calling revis and rightly so.

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah he's either still playing injured or is declining. He IS up there. It would be great if Butler of Brown can improve and relegate Branch to more rotational duty.

That's an unfair clip. He was blocked down with an angle advantage and lost leverage. That play happens to every DL at times. Show me that consistently and I worry but once is nothing.

 

[luuked]

Giardi is tweeting scenes like crazy.. the one that stuck with me so far is this one:

 

[Kontradiction]

Giardi is tweeting scenes like crazy.. the one that stuck with me so far is this one:

Wow. That's some 2009 crap right there. No energy.

 

[skinnydog]

Butler is already off running deep leaving #17 open before Newton even starts a throwing motion.



I dont get why anyone would disagree that he played poker in this scene and assumed that Cam would not follow through on his progressions. There is clearly more than enough time for Newton to go to #17. He got lucky this time..

I can't even begin to believe anyone would defend Butler on this one, unless you thing allowing DBs to leave a receiver absolutely wide open on 3rd and 4 while just standing at the sticks is OK with this coaching staff. Really? When has Belicheck ever allowed for that kind of freelancing? Now, maybe the call was for a disguised coverage and Butler was to take the receiver going deep and Rowe, I think, was to peel off and take the short route. I suppose that is possible. However, 17 had an easy 10+ yard gain if Cam just checks down instead of throwing into obvious double coverage. I'm not a huge fan of Newton, but it sure bailed out by a horrible decision by Newton to throw into double coverage.

 

[Uptown]

Nate Solder's improved play one silver lining from Patriots' loss

 

[ForThoseAboutToRock]

I mean.. if you put Marsh against a guard there is a good chance he will be taken out of the play and open up a running lane. Pretty weird defensive call against someone who can run. Especially because DMac playing the rat was out of the play immediately when McCaffrey went in to block.

Man, watching your series of plays, it's almost like the Defense isn't half bad when they're lined up to play and cover correctly.

There's just the small matter of letting multiple players get 10+ yards open several times per game.

Watching these specific breakdowns makes me want more analysis on Lombardi's point that the "hole" in the Patriots' boat is the D-Line and lack of rush, which the defense has been trying to resolve by punching more holes into the boat (i.e. blitzing), to let the water out, of course.

 

[Mike the Brit]

I

I think that as mentioned, the wild card is Gilmore. He clearly is experiencing severe cultural shock, not just from the big change in terminology, complexity of schemes, but also the culture, the accountability, which he probably never had in Buffalo. He is being called out in ways he probably never imagined possible.

We took him out of Buffalo, but the question here is, can we take the Buffalo out of him?

This tweet by Hurley is not encouraging at all:

Unfortunately, I noticed this about Gilmore earlier. Look at number 24 on this play:



(Apologies if this is OT.)

 

[ForThoseAboutToRock]

Yeah he's either still playing injured or is declining. He IS up there. It would be great if Butler of Brown can improve and relegate Branch to more rotational duty.

So strange how Marsh seemed to have the edge sealed. What on earth prevented him from shedding that block and at least making some contact w/ Newton there?

 

[NE-VT]

So we have been mostly focusing on the defensive play, and rightfully so. Ideally, we should win games when we score 30. Brady clearly still has an elite skills at reading the defense, a quick release, a deep understanding of our offensive system, and the clutch “it” factor ability make plays when they are needed most. All of this is evidenced by the late comeback that was later squandered by poor defense and ticky tack penalties. I am not one of those to argue that Brady will magically fall off a cliff at 40 because of “athletic processing” or some other hocus-pocus. As I watched the game, I was not only shocked by our lousy defense; I was also shocked to see Brady missing some throws that he normally does not. This post is not intended to be a doom and gloom Brady’s career is over post. I am simply pointing out something I noticed and will be looking out for in following weeks.

So while Brady’s eventual decline most likely won’t be a a cliff, barring major injury. Instead it will the wear and tear of the many QB hits as he delivers the throw right before being smashed in the collapsing pocket. Just as a pitcher can gradually lose fastball command and placement as the season runs on, the wear and tear of Brady’s career might slowly catch up to him. The fact that we kept Garoppolo this offseason indicates that the FO is at least considering the possibility that this might happen sooner rather than later.


So here are plays:

1. We missed a first and goal opportunity on this one.

2. This one is borderline. It looks like it was thrown behind the Hogan, but he probably should have still made the catch. Perhaps the coaches’ film will have better angles.

3. I don’t think this was an intentional throw away, but it is debatable. Perhaps the coverage was too tight for this play to work anyway.

4. This one could have ended in a pick. It would have needed a very good throw since Gronk was bracketed by both safeties. Both the throw and the decision are suspect.

5. Perhaps this is a throw away, but I doubt it. If Hogan catches it, we either make it a closer field goal, or maybe he runs through a tackle and gets the first. Debatable.

6. We need another angle on this one. It looks like that Brady did not lead Hogan enough with allowed the DB to make a play on the ball.

7. This was a pretty bad throw considering how open Allen was. Perhaps Allen should have still caught it, but Brady should also hit the receiver better.

8. This play might not have been worth including. Amendola still makes the catch, but he has to stretch out for it. This allows Kuechly to tee him up. Luckily for us it looks like Luke hurt himself more than he hurt Amendola.

9. Overthrow, high interception potential.

10. White is a very good receiving back, but this would have been a hard catch for anyone. The pass rush clearly effected the throw on this one. I still think Brady expects himself to make this play.

 

[PP2]

Yeah it's looking more and more like a lot of this is actually falling on McCourty. Rodney said as much last night, too. As the captain and the leader of the secondary, it's going to be up to him to make sure everyone knows their assignments if they're confused. Rowe had a god awful game yesterday as well as these plays have shown.

I have to differ on this because where the TV broadcast allowed it, I have seen McCourty tell players where to line up, and I did not see him do it incorrectly- I remember distinctly seeing him check to a different coverage when Carolina motioned to a bunch, and to me it felt like he might as well have been dictating to Larry, Moe, and Curly.

 

[PP2]

So we have been mostly focusing on the defensive play, and rightfully so. Ideally, we should win games when we score 30. Brady clearly still has an elite skills at reading the defense, a quick release, a deep understanding of our offensive system, and the clutch “it” factor ability make plays when they are needed most. All of this is evidenced by the late comeback that was later squandered by poor defense and ticky tack penalties. I am not one of those to argue that Brady will magically fall off a cliff at 40 because of “athletic processing” or some other hocus-pocus. As I watched the game, I was not only shocked by our lousy defense; I was also shocked to see Brady missing some throws that he normally does not. This post is not intended to be a doom and gloom Brady’s career is over post. I am simply pointing out something I noticed and will be looking out for in following weeks.

So while Brady’s eventual decline most likely won’t be a a cliff, barring major injury. Instead it will the wear and tear of the many QB hits as he delivers the throw right before being smashed in the collapsing pocket. Just as a pitcher can gradually lose fastball command and placement as the season runs on, the wear and tear of Brady’s career might slowly catch up to him. The fact that we kept Garoppolo this offseason indicates that the FO is at least considering the possibility that this might happen sooner rather than later.


So here are plays:

1. We missed a first and goal opportunity on this one.

2. This one is borderline. It looks like it was thrown behind the Hogan, but he probably should have still made the catch. Perhaps the coaches’ film will have better angles.

3. I don’t think this was an intentional throw away, but it is debatable. Perhaps the coverage was too tight for this play to work anyway.

4. This one could have ended in a pick. It would have needed a very good throw since Gronk was bracketed by both safeties. Both the throw and the decision are suspect.

5. Perhaps this is a throw away, but I doubt it. If Hogan catches it, we either make it a closer field goal, or maybe he runs through a tackle and gets the first. Debatable.

6. We need another angle on this one. It looks like that Brady did not lead Hogan enough with allowed the DB to make a play on the ball.

7. This was a pretty bad throw considering how open Allen was. Perhaps Allen should have still caught it, but Brady should also hit the receiver better.

8. This play might not have been worth including. Amendola still makes the catch, but he has to stretch out for it. This allows Kuechly to tee him up. Luckily for us it looks like Luke hurt himself more than he hurt Amendola.

9. Overthrow, high interception potential.

10. White is a very good receiving back, but this would have been a hard catch for anyone. The pass rush clearly effected the throw on this one. I still think Brady expects himself to make this play.

Which is why I'm going to be watching him real closely on Thursday night because of the lack of turnaround time which affects older athletes much more than younger ones.

Whatever has been hidden, or concealed, will be exposed by a brutally short turnaround time.

 

[PP2]

It's a total x and o problem. When people dont cover the right man you can't be successful.

Yet when you leave ONE receiver on the other side of a bunch release AFTER motion, that's beyond X and O's, that's way into the realms of psychology- e.g., trust/choking/brain freeze. Even a middle school football player knows not to leave a receiver isolated on one side.

This assumes a lot. I have not seen any player or coach call him out. Can you show me these?

Come on Andy, since when does BB or any of the coach call out a player or throw him under the bus?

It's all speculation. Someone blew a coverage. Must have been Gilmore.

Missing the point here- the point is that Gilmore pointed fingers, and reacted badly on that play (as did the other DB's) and rather than do a "mea culpa" or try to fix or solve the problem (as far as I could see) Gilmore engaged in quarrel.

If you look at the tape McCourty seems as or more likely to be the culprit.
Of course the answer is we play the defense that will best stop them and get it right. Problems happen in football and they get fixed.

McCourty is the furthest thing from being a culprit, IMO.

Revis who was worse last year than Gilmore has been this year? Revis who can't cover anyone if he is in the right right position? Revis who doesn't want to play football any more? We would activate someone off the practice squad before calling revis and rightly so.

We'll see what happens, I guess.

 

[luuked]

Yet when you leave ONE receiver on the other side of a bunch release AFTER motion, that's beyond X and O's, that's way into the realms of psychology- e.g., trust/choking/brain freeze. Even a middle school football player knows not to leave a receiver isolated on one side.



Come on Andy, since when does BB or any of the coach call out a player or throw him under the bus?



Missing the point here- the point is that Gilmore pointed fingers, and reacted badly on that play (as did the other DB's) and rather than do a "mea culpa" or try to fix or solve the problem (as far as I could see) Gilmore engaged in quarrel.



McCourty is the furthest thing from being a culprit, IMO.



We'll see what happens, I guess.

This is turning into a non rewatch discussion guys. Maybe continue it via messages ?

 

[long distance]

Some re-watch notes from Benoit

 

[luuked]

Some re-watch notes from Benoit

I love how nobody of those analysts can agree whether the INT was a clever play by Butler or a horrendous coverage bust that just worked out in the most amazing way.

 

[PP2]

This is turning into a non rewatch discussion guys. Maybe continue it via messages ?

Not sure why you would think so; we are discussing facts, not name-calling. Andy brings a lot of insight to the table and sometimes his arguments have made me change my mind.

 

[long distance]

Not sure why you would think so; we are discussing facts, not name-calling. Andy brings a lot of insight to the table and sometimes his arguments have made me change my mind.

I saw it as reasonable caution of tiresome nitpicking that usually kills threads. Thankfully re-watch threads have been safe zones so far and I believe it is everyone's benefit if they can stay that way.

Once the back and forth starts between two posters with shredding quotes etc. it would be sensible to take it to personal conversation (not talking about this case but in general)..

 

[Ring 6]

Yet when you leave ONE receiver on the other side of a bunch release AFTER motion, that's beyond X and O's, that's way into the realms of psychology- e.g., trust/choking/brain freeze. Even a middle school football player knows not to leave a receiver isolated on one side.

No it's just a guy who mixed up his responsibility.

Come on Andy, since when does BB or any of the coach call out a player or throw him under the bus?

Don't ask me. You are the one who said Gilmore has been called out.

Missing the point here- the point is that Gilmore pointed fingers, and reacted badly on that play (as did the other DB's) and rather than do a "mea culpa" or try to fix or solve the problem (as far as I could see) Gilmore engaged in quarrel.

I think this is meaningless. Players react to what happens. It's not about hurt feelings it's about getting tht job done.

McCourty is the furthest thing from being a culprit, IMO.

He admitted he blew the coverage on hills 75 yard TD.
He seems potential accountable in many other plays. He isn't covering very well. If he is the leader and communication is bad, you have to look at him.

We'll see what happens, I guess.

As always, end of story.