2020 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: N/A

Current Patriots Twitter Feed:
Status
Not open for further replies.

patfanken

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
It isn't often when you have 21 point leads TWICE in a game, and put up 38 points that will give Bill SO many teachable moments to harp upon over this 10 day period. I'm starting this at 1am so it is likely that this will be one of my shorter versions of my post game observations. Of course as in most games of football on EVERY level, there are both good and bad things that happen. But before I get into that, I think there are 2 major observation that stuck out to me after this game was over.

First, I was of the distinct impression that while the addition of Julian Edelman would be a plus for the NE offense, it WOULDN'T be a "key" factor overall. I was WRONG! Edelman himself didn't have a big game statistically, but he was productive despite that big drop early in the game. BUT his presence really seemed to open up the field for virtually every other receiver the Pats put on the field. Gronk seemed to have much more room than he's had the first 4 games, as well as the rest of the WR's and RB's. Brady had very few completions that needed to be thrown into tight coverage. It seemed for the first time this season this was a Pats offense that I could recognize. I can only surmise that the difference was Edelman's presence underneath that opened up space for the rest of our receivers. Welcome back, JE. I don't think we realized how much you were missed.

The second biggest impression I got was I was reminded JUST how good Andrew Luck really is. Now I know he's had relatively very little luck with the Pats over his career AND all his injury woes, but while Brady was throwing to mostly open receivers all game, Luck had over a DOZEN key completions that literally had to be perfect throws to get them into the tight coverage his receivers were getting from the Pats, and remember he wasn't throwing to any probowl WR's tonight either.

Well those were the 2 biggest impressions I got, lets get going to the breakdown quickly so I can this done before 3am.

1. Offensive General comments - Two 38 point game in a row bode well for an offense that STILL has a lot of upside left in it. They easily left as many as 21 more points on the field through their own physical errors by Julian, Hogan, and Gronk. Plus Brady missing a wide open White deep. I can't imagine this offense NOT being superbowl worthy as Edelman, Patterson, and Gordon get more integrated into the pass offense, and Michell gets more acclimated to the pro game and shows off his receiving talent.

2. QB - IMO Brady elevated his game tonight. If I were an NFL QB I would never miss the opportunity to watch Brady play. It's almost like a QB clinic each and every time. I think the thing that impresses me the most is his PATIENCE. There is no other QB in the league that is willing to take what the defense is giving him over and over again. There is no other QB in the league who is more willing to simply throw it away and line up for the next play or series. It was a shame that he will be credited with 2 picks in this game, but it should be a lesson in how often individual "stats" don't tell the story.

Now that being said, I DO blame Brady for missing a wide open James White for a first down late in the game that would have led to kneel downs and kept the Colts to 17 points and cut about 70 yds off of Luck's totals. But that's one bad throw out of 44, so I guess I'm really nitpicking at this point. But If Brady had made the pass the defense wouldn't have been subject to several extra plays that could have led to a meaningless injury. It's also the reason I was pissed at the Colts for running the ball at the end of the half instead of just kneeling. I would have hated an injury on a play like that for either side.

BTW- 500 TD passes and having thrown them to 72 different people are AWESOME milestones, ESPECIALLY when you consider that 2 of the top 4 on that list played a great majority of their games in a Dome. Both Brady and Farve played most of their careers playing in bad weather stadiums. Also when you think about Brady's throwing TD's to 72 guys remember he did it playing for just ONE team. The guy Brady just passed played for 7 different teams over his long career, so it makes sense that he'd have a lot more "different receivers" to throw to.

3. OL - Brady had all the time in the world plus more in this game. Normally I'd say. "so what? It's the Colts" but I read where through 4 games the Colts had the 2nd most sacks in the league, so while they haven't got any big names, they have been thus far pretty successful at rushing the passer....UNTIL this game. Not only were the Pats pass blocking effectively, they seemed to be opening more holes in the run game as well. Of Soney's 18 rush attempts only 3 or 4 didn't yield 3 or 4 yards. So most of the time the OL was creating SOME room. A big improvement from the first 3 games. Overall the OL looks to be rounding into something we can hang our hats on. Brown is always going to have SOME issues with speed rushers just like Light and Solder before him, but his game looks to be improving over the course of the season. No reason to think it won't continue. One of the beauties of the game of football is when you KNOW what your weaknesses are, there are ways to deal with them.

4. RB's - James White CONTINUES to elevate his receiving game and it was great to see him make someone miss on his 18 catch and run. His abilities make it hard to fully cover a field that also includes Gronk, Edelman, and Gordon That's too man quality guys for a QB who is willing to throw it to the most open guy, even if it's short.

Michel showed he could be a consistent run threat. It is clear he is a violent runner to seems to give out more punishment than he gets. He was VERY elusive in college, but seems less so, so far. But like I've said, that skill could come if he continues to grow into the offense. We also haven't tapped much into his receiving skills either.

Negatives are 2 - First it seems when Michel is in the game we are running the ball, and when White is in, we are passing it. While I DON'T want them to give the ball to White on anything more than a draw play, I would like to see Michel get more looks in the passing game. The 2nd negative with our RB's is that we simply have too few of them. I don't think it is smart to go too much longer with just 2 pure RB's on the roster.

5. Receivers - Again the addition of Edelman really seemed to open up the field for all the receivers, hence Brady hit 8 different receivers and fully 5 had at least 3 catches. All the more amazing when you consider that White had 10 receptions.

On the negative side you had the 3 key drops by Edelman, Hogan and Gronk. One led to no points on a drive and the other 2 not only kept points off the board, they directly resulted in UNFORCED turnovers. Hopefully that will get taken care off.

On the positive side, while it took until the 4th quarter, Josh Gordon gave us a glimpse of what kind of impact he COULD become. He has become the biggest tease to hit the area in a while and I have the raging hard on to prove it.

Watching him closely tonight, I didn't see any of the blazing speed that we saw when he just ran away from Talib, but he catches the ball with his Gronk-like mitts, and he has great size so I would utilize him much like the Pats use Gronk. in the seam, back shoulder fades,along the sidelines and slants

His TD catch emphasized just how much talent he has. It wasn't about speed or quickness, it was all about his ability to track the ball better than the 2 defenders who seemingly had him blanketed. It is a rare skill to track a deep ball and get your body into the correct position to get to a ball in tight quarters. I though it was one of Brandon Cooks more underrated skills, but he was a smaller receiver and didn't have the hands that Gordon has.

We have long heard about Gordon only playing 12 games since 2014 and that is part of the tease. The other part is the realization that he has such a huge upside as he regains full health, full conditioning and full understanding of this complex and difficult to learn offense. It is a very exciting prospect....that could be extinguished in an instant and wouldn't surprise anyone.

I found it interesting when asked by a reporter how did it feel NOT to be the main focus of the passing offense, he responded by saying, "it was a relief" He went on to say he was just happy to do his part, whatever that part was and to be there when his number was called.

Dorsett had his 3 catches and Hogan had 3 as well, though his drop led to Brady's first pick. So it wasn't perfect, but I think we all can stop wringing our hands over the "WR situation". The Pats had a lot of tough luck losing Edelman, Mitchell, Britt, and Matthews after the start of TC. There have been a sh!tload of guys come and go while they tried to get through that bad luck. But since the start of the season, Dorsett has elevated HIS game, Gordon was signed and Edelman has returned. Add Hogan and Patterson, and the Pats now have as deep and talented WR group as they've ever had

6. Defensive general thoughts - I really have only two and both are negative. First the absence of any consistent pass rush against a patchwork OL was disturbing. It seemed a LITTLE better as the game wore on, but outside of that first defensive play, there wasn't much going on in the first half. It wasn't needed much in this game, but given who is coming to NE next week, it doesn't look good. Granted they were committed to keeping Luck in the pocket and they WERE successful at that, but KC has a much more well rounded offense and better threats all over the field, as well as a very mobile QB, so it is difficult to be hopeful that things will get better next week.

The second thing is about Devon McCourty. Ebron had a career game mostly against Devon. Now I'm not that pissed about the catches he allowed. There were several that were simply perfect passes that got through good coverage, that happens sometimes. What is concerning was the couple of plays it seemed Ebron was running AWAY from DMac, actually looking faster than him

I could be worried over nothing, but when the all 22 comes out, I'd be interested to see if anyone else got that "impression". I could be wrong, and hopefully I am.

7. Front Seven - Had a decent game against the run except for 2 or 3 plays, but the Colts didn't have a challenging run game. KC does. I mentioned the pass rush issue, but that has been an on going issue. It seems to me that we really don't have a consistent rusher who can beat his man one on one. That doesn't bother me as much as most. Even with our best defenses back in 2003 and 4, we never had a guy who had 10 or more sacks. During that same time, IIRC, the Pats were in the top 10 in sacks, so clearly scheming was the biggest factor in getting pressure. In fact, , when the Pats rush was at its best, the DL was doing various stems and twists.

One possible adjustment would be to go back to a 3-4 base look which would make it easier to disguise who the 4 rushers are coming as well as disguising an occasional blitz better than you'd get from a 4-3 base. Just a thought. feel free to discuss.

8. OK it just turned 3am so I'm going to try and be more concise. DB's - Statistically it was horrible. IIRC Luck had close to 300 yds passing in the 2nd half alone. :eek: Everyone was guilty at one time or another of losing coverage or blowing an assignment. I have already mentioned DMac. Even Gilmore got beat badly once on a dropped pass. On the other hand I saw JMac had consistently tight coverage most of the night, and the kids rarely let anyone running free.

It SHOULD be noted that at least some of Luck's success has to be credited to being behind 3 TDs for most of the game. Hard to discern how much was bad play and how much was garbage time yds like the their last drive.

Just how the Pats plan to defend KC will be interesting, and it should be a full discussion on the topic this week.
.
9. ST- Pretty good overall, and much better than in recent weeks, but on the Colt's long PR, it could have been mitigated, if not avoided if the gunner had simply broken down 5 yds infront of the receiver and forced him to slow down to avoid him. Instead he kept going full speed trying to make the super play. Even if the returner had gotten by him, the rest of coverage would have had time to make the return into a 10-15 yd gain instead of a 33 yd one

General Comments before I nod off.

a. I saw a stat this week I found interesting - during the BB era the Pats have started 2-2 six times and went to the superbowl 3 times....and won twice

b. Interesting that coming off a game where they ran for 200 yds the Pats come out with the clear intention of attacking the Colt D through the air.

c. Edelman's quickness doesn't look like it was in 2016 . Is it rust, confidence, or simply it is what it is. Now there were some that didn't see a difference, but to me he didn't show the "burst", the acceleration out of a cut, that separated him and made him an elite slot receiver. JMHO

d. BTW- I hated the PF call. The guy was trying to block the pass and hit the helmet instead. No intent, No chance of injury. It should have been an non-call.

e. Sony got screwed out of a TD I wonder why BB didn't challenge.

f. Some people like Buck and Aikman, I don't. While I know the Colts had more than their share of injuries going into this game and during it, I got tired of hearing it EVERY freakin' minute. They didn't seem to notice that the Pats have NINE guys on IR already (2nd in the league), and they too lost some guys during the game.

MAYBE they could have mentioned that a reason so many Colt players were getting dinged in this game was the fact the Pats were being more physical than them. But doing THAT would require them to so say something positive about the Pats in general.

g. Kyle Van Noy is very quietly turning into a very nice player on this team. Also ERoberts is never going to be a great pass coverage LB, but there is no question in my mind that he HAS improved this year.

More stuff to say, but I am starting to nod off (3:40) If you make a lot of comments then you'll probably cover the stuff I wanted to say, and if not, I'll just say it in the morning....or afternoon....whenever I wake up. ;)
 
Last edited:

edkk323

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
The team is off till Monday.

I am biased but the throws from Andrew Luck lacked strength compared to Brady's. White is a WR. And I really like Patterson for his gimmick plays. We need a solid RB backup.

This offense is going to be hard to cover.
 

Joker

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Thanks Ken. I'm wide awake and REWATCHING the game on NFLN.They could have used any number of game plans offensively tonight. Suddenly, they're BACK. Weird bounces and fluke deflections don't bother me one bit at this point. My biggest takeaway from this game is, besides winning, no devastating injuries. These Thursday Night games always make me nervous about injuries...for the obvious reasons.
 

luuked

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Negatives are 2 - First it seems when Michel is in the game we are running the ball, and when White is in, we are passing it. While I DON'T want them to give the ball to White on anything more than a draw play, I would like to see Michel get more looks in the passing game. The 2nd negative with our RB's is that we simply have too few of them. I don't think it is smart to go too much longer with just 2 pure RB's on the roster.

A short note. Seems like the team is finally starting to trust Michel in pass pro a bit. He was in on a few snaps that were passes with him in protection. One of those was the completion Brady had when he got "slapped on his helmet" for another 15 yards.

This is pretty big news. If he can somewhat hold up in that role it will open up even more for the offense because then they are not as easy to read in terms of run / pass.

Sony got screwed out of a TD I wonder why BB didn't challenge.

Already posted this in another thread. Based on one replay shot from above we have seen there is no confirmation if Michel was not already down by contact when he stretched out:



Based on the field position and that their D had to defend two runs already I guess the chances to sneak it were about as high as the chances you get a clear shot of him not touching the ground.
 
Last edited:

PScottman

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Great write up as usual Ken. I am always interested in the game behind the game aspects. Tonight its the age old question in a new football era of how much can a defense actually sustain across the entire contest?

By my count the defense, in its "we are really playing" portion of the game, accounted for about 13 points. That's the heart of the question - how much is really scheme? Year after year we lament the fact that opposing teams get "easy" scores when the Patriots are up by more than two scores.

The meme has been floated before that the Patriots will trade time off the clock for in bounds plays especially associated with longer drives. I am starting to really believe that assertion. Last night in both circumstances where the Pats were up 21, the DL did much more "one on one" aligned rushes (not to mention three man rushes) while the DBs played much more outside technique facilitating routes to the middle of the field. That's schematic and points toward such a theory as "killing the clock".

Secondly, in today's NFL so heavily skewed by rule to the offense, I'm not sure a defense can keep up the "foot on the throat" level of play the entire game.

From an effort perspective, a schematic variety perspective, as well as a desire perspective (not to mention literally an ADHD culture like we have now) CAN any defense just go all game at that level of play required? I'm not sure they can. Those days simply don't exist in the NFL anymore IMHO.
 

DarrylS

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
A win is a win, and there are not extra points for style.. with that being said, do not believe what we saw last night is a finished product. There were too many mistakes on both sides of the ball. Then there were the 7 Pats penalties, two on one play.

The two deflections for int's were concerning, can that be helped or made different??

The offense seems to continue to look predictable, Michel = running play, White = passing play... the game plan did not look all that innovative. Maybe they were being conservative for the KC folks..

Edelman provided a spark, Gordon a sign of great things to come??

Defensively they need to pick it up a couple of notches before KC comes to town.. our DB's were consistently out of position particularly in the second half.. considering the O line of Indy, there should have at least been more collapsed pockets.. Luck looked too comfortable.

Now the Pats are 3-2, scoring points.. but defensively they concern me.

Will this game go down in history and forever be known as the "Indy 500"???
 
Last edited:

luuked

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
I found it interesting when asked by a reporter how did it feel NOT to be the main focus of the passing offense, he responded by saying, "it was a relief" He went on to say he was just happy to do his part, whatever that part was and to be there when his number was called.

I agree this also stand out to me. One of my biggest fears with Gordon was how he would deal with not being "featured" or sometimes playing fewer snaps. And so far this did not seem to bother him too much. I hope this continues because if everyone stays mentally tough and accepts their role this offense can be a juggernaut.

OK it just turned 3am so I'm going to try and be more concise. DB's - Statistically it was horrible. IIRC Luck had close to 300 yds passing in the 2nd half alone. :eek: Everyone was guilty at one time or another of losing coverage or blowing an assignment. I have already mentioned DMac. Even Gilmore got beat badly once on a dropped pass. On the other hand I saw JMac had consistently tight coverage most of the night, and the kids rarely let anyone running free.

Quite honestly this is one of those things where the stats are misleading because to me the secondary seemed to have a pretty good day. Except for getting DMac outleveraged twice the Colts could not really find a consistent mismatch they could go to. Gilmore made a few plays, JMac looked very impressive and at the very least JJones was always around the action even if sometimes he could not finish a play.

Lets keep in mind how the 2018 version of the NFL is a place where you just have to expect that the other team will be able to pass on you as well.

I really have only two and both are negative. First the absence of any consistent pass rush against a patchwork OL was disturbing. It seemed a LITTLE better as the game wore on, but outside of that first defensive play, there wasn't much going on in the first half.

Seemed like Luck got rid of the ball below 2.5 seconds a lot of times on quick routes. Difficult for your pass rush to get there that fast when they also have to consider lane integrity and make sure Luck does not leak out somehow and runs for a big gain. There seemed to be a bit more stemming going on presnap than in the previous weeks (or maybe I just paid more attention to it this week) and as the coaching staff gets more comfortable and confident with the players up front they will give them a bit more leeway with those things which will help.

But we don't have the talent up front that can consistently win their 1v1s (or 2v1s) and consistently make plays by themselves.

Edelman's quickness doesn't look like it was in 2016 . Is it rust, confidence, or simply it is what it is. Now there were some that didn't see a difference, but to me he didn't show the "burst", the acceleration out of a cut, that separated him and made him an elite slot receiver. JMHO

His first game back after not being on the field for over a year AND coming from an ACL. I thought his debut was impressive as hell and went way beyond my expectations. Lets see where he is in November before talking about him being diminished.

Kyle Van Noy is very quietly turning into a very nice player on this team. Also ERoberts is never going to be a great pass coverage LB, but there is no question in my mind that he HAS improved this year.

Both benefit from being in more comfortable roles with HT out there.
 

PP2

Pro Bowl Player
It isn't often when you have 21 point leads TWICE in a game, and put up 38 points that will give Bill SO many teachable moments to harp upon over this 10 day period. I'm starting this at 1am so it is likely that this will be one of my shorter versions of my post game observations. Of course as in most games of football on EVERY level, there are both good and bad things that happen. But before I get into that, I think there are 2 major observation that stuck out to me after this game was over.

First, I was of the distinct impression that while the addition of Julian Edelman would be a plus for the NE offense, it WOULDN'T be a "key" factor overall. I was WRONG! Edelman himself didn't have a big game statistically, but he was productive despite that big drop early in the game. BUT his presence really seemed to open up the field for virtually every other receiver the Pats put on the field. Gronk seemed to have much more room than he's had the first 4 games, as well as the rest of the WR's and RB's. Brady had very few completions that needed to be thrown into tight coverage. It seemed for the first time this season this was a Pats offense that I could recognize. I can only surmise that the difference was Edelman's presence underneath that opened up space for the rest of our receivers. Welcome back, JE. I don't think we realized how much you were missed.

The second biggest impression I got was I was reminded JUST how good Andrew Luck really is. Now I know he's had relatively very little luck with the Pats over his career AND all his injury woes, but while Brady was throwing to mostly open receivers all game, Luck had over a DOZEN key completions that literally had to be perfect throws to get them into the tight coverage his receivers were getting from the Pats, and remember he wasn't throwing to any probowl WR's tonight either.

Well those were the 2 biggest impressions I got, lets get going to the breakdown quickly so I can this done before 3am.

1. Offensive General comments - Two 38 point game in a row bode well for an offense that STILL has a lot of upside left in it. They easily left as many as 21 more points on the field through their own physical errors by Julian, Hogan, and Gronk. Plus Brady missing a wide open White deep. I can't imagine this offense NOT being superbowl worthy as Edelman, Patterson, and Gordon get more integrated into the pass offense, and Michell gets more acclimated to the pro game and shows off his receiving talent.

2. QB - IMO Brady elevated his game tonight. If I were an NFL QB I would never miss the opportunity to watch Brady play. It's almost like a QB clinic each and every time. I think the thing that impresses me the most is his PATIENCE. There is no other QB in the league that is willing to take what the defense is giving him over and over again. There is no other QB in the league who is more willing to simply throw it away and line up for the next play or series. It was a shame that he will be credited with 2 picks in this game, but it should be a lesson in how often individual "stats" don't tell the story.

Now that being said, I DO blame Brady for missing a wide open James White for a first down late in the game that would have led to kneel downs and kept the Colts to 17 points and cut about 70 yds off of Luck's totals. But that's one bad throw out of 44, so I guess I'm really nitpicking at this point. But If Brady had made the pass the defense wouldn't have been subject to several extra plays that could have led to a meaningless injury. It's also the reason I was pissed at the Colts for running the ball at the end of the half instead of just kneeling. I would have hated an injury on a play like that for either side.

BTW- 500 TD passes and having thrown them to 72 different people are AWESOME milestones, ESPECIALLY when you consider that 2 of the top 4 on that list played a great majority of their games in a Dome. Both Brady and Farve played most of their careers playing in bad weather stadiums. Also when you think about Brady's throwing TD's to 72 guys remember he did it playing for just ONE team. The guy Brady just passed played for 7 different teams over his long career, so it makes sense that he'd have a lot more "different receivers" to throw to.

3. OL - Brady had all the time in the world plus more in this game. Normally I'd say. "so what? It's the Colts" but I read where through 4 games the Colts had the 2nd most sacks in the league, so while they haven't got any big names, they have been thus far pretty successful at rushing the passer....UNTIL this game. Not only were the Pats pass blocking effectively, they seemed to be opening more holes in the run game as well. Of Soney's 18 rush attempts only 3 or 4 didn't yield 3 or 4 yards. So most of the time the OL was creating SOME room. A big improvement from the first 3 games. Overall the OL looks to be rounding into something we can hang our hats on. Brown is always going to have SOME issues with speed rushers just like Light and Solder before him, but his game looks to be improving over the course of the season. No reason to think it won't continue. One of the beauties of the game of football is when you KNOW what your weaknesses are, there are ways to deal with them.

4. RB's - James White CONTINUES to elevate his receiving game and it was great to see him make someone miss on his 18 catch and run. His abilities make it hard to fully cover a field that also includes Gronk, Edelman, and Gordon That's too man quality guys for a QB who is willing to throw it to the most open guy, even if it's short.

Michel showed he could be a consistent run threat. It is clear he is a violent runner to seems to give out more punishment than he gets. He was VERY elusive in college, but seems less so, so far. But like I've said, that skill could come if he continues to grow into the offense. We also haven't tapped much into his receiving skills either.

Negatives are 2 - First it seems when Michel is in the game we are running the ball, and when White is in, we are passing it. While I DON'T want them to give the ball to White on anything more than a draw play, I would like to see Michel get more looks in the passing game. The 2nd negative with our RB's is that we simply have too few of them. I don't think it is smart to go too much longer with just 2 pure RB's on the roster.

5. Receivers - Again the addition of Edelman really seemed to open up the field for all the receivers, hence Brady hit 8 different receivers and fully 5 had at least 3 catches. All the more amazing when you consider that White had 10 receptions.

On the negative side you had the 3 key drops by Edelman, Hogan and Gronk. One led to no points on a drive and the other 2 not only kept points off the board, they directly resulted in UNFORCED turnovers. Hopefully that will get taken care off.

On the positive side, while it took until the 4th quarter, Josh Gordon gave us a glimpse of what kind of impact he COULD become. He has become the biggest tease to hit the area in a while and I have the raging hard on to prove it.

Watching him closely tonight, I didn't see any of the blazing speed that we saw when he just ran away from Talib, but he catches the ball with his Gronk-like mitts, and he has great size so I would utilize him much like the Pats use Gronk. in the seam, back shoulder fades,along the sidelines and slants

His TD catch emphasized just how much talent he has. It wasn't about speed or quickness, it was all about his ability to track the ball better than the 2 defenders who seemingly had him blanketed. It is a rare skill to track a deep ball and get your body into the correct position to get to a ball in tight quarters. I though it was one of Brandon Cooks more underrated skills, but he was a smaller receiver and didn't have the hands that Gordon has.

We have long heard about Gordon only playing 12 games since 2014 and that is part of the tease. The other part is the realization that he has such a huge upside as he regains full health, full conditioning and full understanding of this complex and difficult to learn offense. It is a very exciting prospect....that could be extinguished in an instant and wouldn't surprise anyone.

I found it interesting when asked by a reporter how did it feel NOT to be the main focus of the passing offense, he responded by saying, "it was a relief" He went on to say he was just happy to do his part, whatever that part was and to be there when his number was called.

Dorsett had his 3 catches and Hogan had 3 as well, though his drop led to Brady's first pick. So it wasn't perfect, but I think we all can stop wringing our hands over the "WR situation". The Pats had a lot of tough luck losing Edelman, Mitchell, Britt, and Matthews after the start of TC. There have been a sh!tload of guys come and go while they tried to get through that bad luck. But since the start of the season, Dorsett has elevated HIS game, Gordon was signed and Edelman has returned. Add Hogan and Patterson, and the Pats now have as deep and talented WR group as they've ever had

6. Defensive general thoughts - I really have only two and both are negative. First the absence of any consistent pass rush against a patchwork OL was disturbing. It seemed a LITTLE better as the game wore on, but outside of that first defensive play, there wasn't much going on in the first half. It wasn't needed much in this game, but given who is coming to NE next week, it doesn't look good. Granted they were committed to keeping Luck in the pocket and they WERE successful at that, but KC has a much more well rounded offense and better threats all over the field, as well as a very mobile QB, so it is difficult to be hopeful that things will get better next week.

The second thing is about Devon McCourty. Ebron had a career game mostly against Devon. Now I'm not that pissed about the catches he allowed. There were several that were simply perfect passes that got through good coverage, that happens sometimes. What is concerning was the couple of plays it seemed Ebron was running AWAY from DMac, actually looking faster than him

I could be worried over nothing, but when the all 22 comes out, I'd be interested to see if anyone else got that "impression". I could be wrong, and hopefully I am.

7. Front Seven - Had a decent game against the run except for 2 or 3 plays, but the Colts didn't have a challenging run game. KC does. I mentioned the pass rush issue, but that has been an on going issue. It seems to me that we really don't have a consistent rusher who can beat his man one on one. That doesn't bother me as much as most. Even with our best defenses back in 2003 and 4, we never had a guy who had 10 or more sacks. During that same time, IIRC, the Pats were in the top 10 in sacks, so clearly scheming was the biggest factor in getting pressure. In fact, , when the Pats rush was at its best, the DL was doing various stems and twists.

One possible adjustment would be to go back to a 3-4 base look which would make it easier to disguise who the 4 rushers are coming as well as disguising an occasional blitz better than you'd get from a 4-3 base. Just a thought. feel free to discuss.

8. OK it just turned 3am so I'm going to try and be more concise. DB's - Statistically it was horrible. IIRC Luck had close to 300 yds passing in the 2nd half alone. :eek: Everyone was guilty at one time or another of losing coverage or blowing an assignment. I have already mentioned DMac. Even Gilmore got beat badly once on a dropped pass. On the other hand I saw JMac had consistently tight coverage most of the night, and the kids rarely let anyone running free.

It SHOULD be noted that at least some of Luck's success has to be credited to being behind 3 TDs for most of the game. Hard to discern how much was bad play and how much was garbage time yds like the their last drive.

Just how the Pats plan to defend KC will be interesting, and it should be a full discussion on the topic this week.
.
9. ST- Pretty good overall, and much better than in recent weeks, but on the Colt's long PR, it could have been mitigated, if not avoided if the gunner had simply broken down 5 yds infront of the receiver and forced him to slow down to avoid him. Instead he kept going full speed trying to make the super play. Even if the returner had gotten by him, the rest of coverage would have had time to make the return into a 10-15 yd gain instead of a 33 yd one

General Comments before I nod off.

a. I saw a stat this week I found interesting - during the BB era the Pats have started 2-2 six times and went to the superbowl 3 times....and won twice

b. Interesting that coming off a game where they ran for 200 yds the Pats come out with the clear intention of attacking the Colt D through the air.

c. Edelman's quickness doesn't look like it was in 2016 . Is it rust, confidence, or simply it is what it is. Now there were some that didn't see a difference, but to me he didn't show the "burst", the acceleration out of a cut, that separated him and made him an elite slot receiver. JMHO

d. BTW- I hated the PF call. The guy was trying to block the pass and hit the helmet instead. No intent, No chance of injury. It should have been an non-call.

e. Sony got screwed out of a TD I wonder why BB didn't challenge.

f. Some people like Buck and Aikman, I don't. While I know the Colts had more than their share of injuries going into this game and during it, I got tired of hearing it EVERY freakin' minute. They didn't seem to notice that the Pats have NINE guys on IR already (2nd in the league), and they too lost some guys during the game.

MAYBE they could have mentioned that a reason so many Colt players were getting dinged in this game was the fact the Pats were being more physical than them. But doing THAT would require them to so say something positive about the Pats in general.

g. Kyle Van Noy is very quietly turning into a very nice player on this team. Also ERoberts is never going to be a great pass coverage LB, but there is no question in my mind that he HAS improved this year.

More stuff to say, but I am starting to nod off (3:40) If you make a lot of comments then you'll probably cover the stuff I wanted to say, and if not, I'll just say it in the morning....or afternoon....whenever I wake up. ;)

Great post, Ken. Always very informative, but this one was pretty good.
 

long distance

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
@ pass rush

1. I understand people want to see sacks and QB hits and 1v1 wins and blitzes etc - and no one wants that more than players themselves - but BBs D is not firstly about that (and some players leave for that reason like Long, Hicks etc.). First is controlling the pocket. They lost control of the pocket @DET, rushed/blitzed more aggressively playing from behind and we've seen how that went. They kept good control of the pocket with 4 guys in the 3 games they won. Of course one would desire BOTH consistent control of the pocket AND flashy pressures but that's not where BB invests so there should be some sense of reality of expectations here..

2. Never hurts to take a look at situational context as well. Pats had plenty of 3 and outs early in the three games they controlled the pocket well. Playing with substantial lead changes play calling as @PScottman already wrote about.

3. Holding calls are arguably the most arbitrary calls in the game. Only a handful of holds are called per game, usually most blatant ones but not necessarily. Without the benefit of re-watch i had a strong impression during the game (first time this season) that Indy's OL gets away with plenty of clear OL holdings esp. after the game went 21-3 (the only holding call against IND OL was at 14-3). I felt it was sort of an equalizer tool to keep the prime time game at least somewhat interesting. I wonder if re-watch confirms that and puts NE pass-rushing “woes“ in another micro context..


btw - controlling the pocket and not “pass-rushing“ stats will be KEY to success vs KC
 
Last edited:

PScottman

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
I felt it was sort of an equalizer tool to keep the prime time game at least somewhat interesting.

Always an interesting debate. When advertising dollars count, how much can/does/will a league influence (even if indirectly over the long haul) the game's officiating methodology? Blowouts are only good ratings in one broadcast sector (the winning teams').

We know for a fact the NBA utilized that approach, at least previously, from the Donaghey scandal - utilize the fouls process to better manage the game to prevent total blowouts and maximize "stars" - so while a conspiracy is extremely hard to control because leaks are too easy the more people involved - it's not far fetched to influence how rules are interpreted over the course of a game without too much backlash.
 

maineman209

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
@patfanken

WRT Luck, he had amazing accuracy and zip on his throws for a guy who had just thrown 62 passes five nights earlier (and then threw another 59 last night without his arm falling off). I also thought his guys ran very good routes for him. If not for their drops ...

In any case, the improvement in the Colts' coaching and play-calling is starting to show. I think I underestimated this team.

WRT the Pats' pass rush ...

First of all, they DID get 6 hits on Luck and got close a few other times. There WAS pressure on Luck, but he stayed icy and made great throws in spite of it. OTOH, that "patchwork OL" was certainly able to give Luck a clean pocket a lot of the time. I think, again, that's an indication of the improvement in the Colts' coaching as much as it was the inability of the Pats' guys to win 1v1s. They certainly didn't look at all like the bumbling group that was getting Brissett killed on a regular basis last season.

In coverage, I think both JMac and JJ have been underrated. I think both were targeted a lot last night, especially JJ.

I generally agree about seeing improved play from both KVN and Roberts. HOWEVER, I also think that's partly due to improved play from the DL in frot of them, PLUS the fact that they've had at least one other compentent LB available to be on the field with them. But, with Bentley gone now, and only HT to help out, that situation could regress quickly with another LB injury.

SPEAKING OF WHICH ... where did Simon disappear to last night??
 

TommyBrady12

Hall of Fame Poster
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
It isn't often when you have 21 point leads TWICE in a game, and put up 38 points that will give Bill SO many teachable moments to harp upon over this 10 day period. I'm starting this at 1am so it is likely that this will be one of my shorter versions of my post game observations. Of course as in most games of football on EVERY level, there are both good and bad things that happen. But before I get into that, I think there are 2 major observation that stuck out to me after this game was over.

First, I was of the distinct impression that while the addition of Julian Edelman would be a plus for the NE offense, it WOULDN'T be a "key" factor overall. I was WRONG! Edelman himself didn't have a big game statistically, but he was productive despite that big drop early in the game. BUT his presence really seemed to open up the field for virtually every other receiver the Pats put on the field. Gronk seemed to have much more room than he's had the first 4 games, as well as the rest of the WR's and RB's. Brady had very few completions that needed to be thrown into tight coverage. It seemed for the first time this season this was a Pats offense that I could recognize. I can only surmise that the difference was Edelman's presence underneath that opened up space for the rest of our receivers. Welcome back, JE. I don't think we realized how much you were missed.

The second biggest impression I got was I was reminded JUST how good Andrew Luck really is. Now I know he's had relatively very little luck with the Pats over his career AND all his injury woes, but while Brady was throwing to mostly open receivers all game, Luck had over a DOZEN key completions that literally had to be perfect throws to get them into the tight coverage his receivers were getting from the Pats, and remember he wasn't throwing to any probowl WR's tonight either.

Well those were the 2 biggest impressions I got, lets get going to the breakdown quickly so I can this done before 3am.

1. Offensive General comments - Two 38 point game in a row bode well for an offense that STILL has a lot of upside left in it. They easily left as many as 21 more points on the field through their own physical errors by Julian, Hogan, and Gronk. Plus Brady missing a wide open White deep. I can't imagine this offense NOT being superbowl worthy as Edelman, Patterson, and Gordon get more integrated into the pass offense, and Michell gets more acclimated to the pro game and shows off his receiving talent.

2. QB - IMO Brady elevated his game tonight. If I were an NFL QB I would never miss the opportunity to watch Brady play. It's almost like a QB clinic each and every time. I think the thing that impresses me the most is his PATIENCE. There is no other QB in the league that is willing to take what the defense is giving him over and over again. There is no other QB in the league who is more willing to simply throw it away and line up for the next play or series. It was a shame that he will be credited with 2 picks in this game, but it should be a lesson in how often individual "stats" don't tell the story.

Now that being said, I DO blame Brady for missing a wide open James White for a first down late in the game that would have led to kneel downs and kept the Colts to 17 points and cut about 70 yds off of Luck's totals. But that's one bad throw out of 44, so I guess I'm really nitpicking at this point. But If Brady had made the pass the defense wouldn't have been subject to several extra plays that could have led to a meaningless injury. It's also the reason I was pissed at the Colts for running the ball at the end of the half instead of just kneeling. I would have hated an injury on a play like that for either side.

BTW- 500 TD passes and having thrown them to 72 different people are AWESOME milestones, ESPECIALLY when you consider that 2 of the top 4 on that list played a great majority of their games in a Dome. Both Brady and Farve played most of their careers playing in bad weather stadiums. Also when you think about Brady's throwing TD's to 72 guys remember he did it playing for just ONE team. The guy Brady just passed played for 7 different teams over his long career, so it makes sense that he'd have a lot more "different receivers" to throw to.

3. OL - Brady had all the time in the world plus more in this game. Normally I'd say. "so what? It's the Colts" but I read where through 4 games the Colts had the 2nd most sacks in the league, so while they haven't got any big names, they have been thus far pretty successful at rushing the passer....UNTIL this game. Not only were the Pats pass blocking effectively, they seemed to be opening more holes in the run game as well. Of Soney's 18 rush attempts only 3 or 4 didn't yield 3 or 4 yards. So most of the time the OL was creating SOME room. A big improvement from the first 3 games. Overall the OL looks to be rounding into something we can hang our hats on. Brown is always going to have SOME issues with speed rushers just like Light and Solder before him, but his game looks to be improving over the course of the season. No reason to think it won't continue. One of the beauties of the game of football is when you KNOW what your weaknesses are, there are ways to deal with them.

4. RB's - James White CONTINUES to elevate his receiving game and it was great to see him make someone miss on his 18 catch and run. His abilities make it hard to fully cover a field that also includes Gronk, Edelman, and Gordon That's too man quality guys for a QB who is willing to throw it to the most open guy, even if it's short.

Michel showed he could be a consistent run threat. It is clear he is a violent runner to seems to give out more punishment than he gets. He was VERY elusive in college, but seems less so, so far. But like I've said, that skill could come if he continues to grow into the offense. We also haven't tapped much into his receiving skills either.

Negatives are 2 - First it seems when Michel is in the game we are running the ball, and when White is in, we are passing it. While I DON'T want them to give the ball to White on anything more than a draw play, I would like to see Michel get more looks in the passing game. The 2nd negative with our RB's is that we simply have too few of them. I don't think it is smart to go too much longer with just 2 pure RB's on the roster.

5. Receivers - Again the addition of Edelman really seemed to open up the field for all the receivers, hence Brady hit 8 different receivers and fully 5 had at least 3 catches. All the more amazing when you consider that White had 10 receptions.

On the negative side you had the 3 key drops by Edelman, Hogan and Gronk. One led to no points on a drive and the other 2 not only kept points off the board, they directly resulted in UNFORCED turnovers. Hopefully that will get taken care off.

On the positive side, while it took until the 4th quarter, Josh Gordon gave us a glimpse of what kind of impact he COULD become. He has become the biggest tease to hit the area in a while and I have the raging hard on to prove it.

Watching him closely tonight, I didn't see any of the blazing speed that we saw when he just ran away from Talib, but he catches the ball with his Gronk-like mitts, and he has great size so I would utilize him much like the Pats use Gronk. in the seam, back shoulder fades,along the sidelines and slants

His TD catch emphasized just how much talent he has. It wasn't about speed or quickness, it was all about his ability to track the ball better than the 2 defenders who seemingly had him blanketed. It is a rare skill to track a deep ball and get your body into the correct position to get to a ball in tight quarters. I though it was one of Brandon Cooks more underrated skills, but he was a smaller receiver and didn't have the hands that Gordon has.

We have long heard about Gordon only playing 12 games since 2014 and that is part of the tease. The other part is the realization that he has such a huge upside as he regains full health, full conditioning and full understanding of this complex and difficult to learn offense. It is a very exciting prospect....that could be extinguished in an instant and wouldn't surprise anyone.

I found it interesting when asked by a reporter how did it feel NOT to be the main focus of the passing offense, he responded by saying, "it was a relief" He went on to say he was just happy to do his part, whatever that part was and to be there when his number was called.

Dorsett had his 3 catches and Hogan had 3 as well, though his drop led to Brady's first pick. So it wasn't perfect, but I think we all can stop wringing our hands over the "WR situation". The Pats had a lot of tough luck losing Edelman, Mitchell, Britt, and Matthews after the start of TC. There have been a sh!tload of guys come and go while they tried to get through that bad luck. But since the start of the season, Dorsett has elevated HIS game, Gordon was signed and Edelman has returned. Add Hogan and Patterson, and the Pats now have as deep and talented WR group as they've ever had

6. Defensive general thoughts - I really have only two and both are negative. First the absence of any consistent pass rush against a patchwork OL was disturbing. It seemed a LITTLE better as the game wore on, but outside of that first defensive play, there wasn't much going on in the first half. It wasn't needed much in this game, but given who is coming to NE next week, it doesn't look good. Granted they were committed to keeping Luck in the pocket and they WERE successful at that, but KC has a much more well rounded offense and better threats all over the field, as well as a very mobile QB, so it is difficult to be hopeful that things will get better next week.

The second thing is about Devon McCourty. Ebron had a career game mostly against Devon. Now I'm not that pissed about the catches he allowed. There were several that were simply perfect passes that got through good coverage, that happens sometimes. What is concerning was the couple of plays it seemed Ebron was running AWAY from DMac, actually looking faster than him

I could be worried over nothing, but when the all 22 comes out, I'd be interested to see if anyone else got that "impression". I could be wrong, and hopefully I am.

7. Front Seven - Had a decent game against the run except for 2 or 3 plays, but the Colts didn't have a challenging run game. KC does. I mentioned the pass rush issue, but that has been an on going issue. It seems to me that we really don't have a consistent rusher who can beat his man one on one. That doesn't bother me as much as most. Even with our best defenses back in 2003 and 4, we never had a guy who had 10 or more sacks. During that same time, IIRC, the Pats were in the top 10 in sacks, so clearly scheming was the biggest factor in getting pressure. In fact, , when the Pats rush was at its best, the DL was doing various stems and twists.

One possible adjustment would be to go back to a 3-4 base look which would make it easier to disguise who the 4 rushers are coming as well as disguising an occasional blitz better than you'd get from a 4-3 base. Just a thought. feel free to discuss.

8. OK it just turned 3am so I'm going to try and be more concise. DB's - Statistically it was horrible. IIRC Luck had close to 300 yds passing in the 2nd half alone. :eek: Everyone was guilty at one time or another of losing coverage or blowing an assignment. I have already mentioned DMac. Even Gilmore got beat badly once on a dropped pass. On the other hand I saw JMac had consistently tight coverage most of the night, and the kids rarely let anyone running free.

It SHOULD be noted that at least some of Luck's success has to be credited to being behind 3 TDs for most of the game. Hard to discern how much was bad play and how much was garbage time yds like the their last drive.

Just how the Pats plan to defend KC will be interesting, and it should be a full discussion on the topic this week.
.
9. ST- Pretty good overall, and much better than in recent weeks, but on the Colt's long PR, it could have been mitigated, if not avoided if the gunner had simply broken down 5 yds infront of the receiver and forced him to slow down to avoid him. Instead he kept going full speed trying to make the super play. Even if the returner had gotten by him, the rest of coverage would have had time to make the return into a 10-15 yd gain instead of a 33 yd one

General Comments before I nod off.

a. I saw a stat this week I found interesting - during the BB era the Pats have started 2-2 six times and went to the superbowl 3 times....and won twice

b. Interesting that coming off a game where they ran for 200 yds the Pats come out with the clear intention of attacking the Colt D through the air.

c. Edelman's quickness doesn't look like it was in 2016 . Is it rust, confidence, or simply it is what it is. Now there were some that didn't see a difference, but to me he didn't show the "burst", the acceleration out of a cut, that separated him and made him an elite slot receiver. JMHO

d. BTW- I hated the PF call. The guy was trying to block the pass and hit the helmet instead. No intent, No chance of injury. It should have been an non-call.

e. Sony got screwed out of a TD I wonder why BB didn't challenge.

f. Some people like Buck and Aikman, I don't. While I know the Colts had more than their share of injuries going into this game and during it, I got tired of hearing it EVERY freakin' minute. They didn't seem to notice that the Pats have NINE guys on IR already (2nd in the league), and they too lost some guys during the game.

MAYBE they could have mentioned that a reason so many Colt players were getting dinged in this game was the fact the Pats were being more physical than them. But doing THAT would require them to so say something positive about the Pats in general.

g. Kyle Van Noy is very quietly turning into a very nice player on this team. Also ERoberts is never going to be a great pass coverage LB, but there is no question in my mind that he HAS improved this year.

More stuff to say, but I am starting to nod off (3:40) If you make a lot of comments then you'll probably cover the stuff I wanted to say, and if not, I'll just say it in the morning....or afternoon....whenever I wake up. ;)

This was the short version?
 

PF_SU

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
I really like Luck ever since he's come into the league. Just happens to play for the wrong franchise. He's got a gunslinger's mentality though which sometimes leads to baffeling interceptions. A bit like Favre.
 

Dagg

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
If Grigson still lives in town he should be lynched that team is totally devoid of talent on both sides of the ball and at every level. Luck is a good player but its going to be years before they actually build any sort of team around him. You are telling me Dez cant start for that team?
 

Elijah

The Tom Brady Of Not Having A Gf
PatsFans.com Supporter
I actually thought Edelman looked fine outside of that egregious drop, and I suspected all offseason that we might have seen his prime come and go already.

If he is, as you say, less quick, I think another possible explanation is that he's just straight up old for a receiver now.
 

archstanton543

In the Starting Line-Up
You are what your record says you are. And the Colts and Luck aren't very good. Luck's a good fantasy player, perhaps but sometimes statistics don't tell the whole story.
 

everlong

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
I was at the game last night. I DRV'd the game and will watch it tonight to see how my perceptions from TV to in stadium are different. For point of reference we sat 15 rows back in the center of 122 which is the south end zone.

1. Gordon's adjustment on the TD catch was amazing. Very few receivers, ever, just glide between two defenders and make it look that easy. When that ball went up everybody in our section knew it was slight under thrown and we were worried about the pick. I knew he was big and fast but his short area quickness and smoothness don't translate in the games I've seen on TV with him. BTW there was blatant holding by the DB where he clotheslined Gordon and he just powered through it.

2. Hogan is a really smart receiver. I've noticed it before in live games but he boxes out even better than Gronk in that when he cuts in he comes back to the ball giving the DBs even less of a chance of breaking up the pass. Gronk's just a wall when he does it.

3. I agree with Ken's comments on how good Luck is. His receivers did him no favors.

4. Adam Butler is quietly having a really good year. Live you noticed even when he didn't make the play he was impacting it. .

5. Beyond the Colt's players posing after the interception, BTW I flipping hate when any team does that, the Colt's players were taunting the crowd a few other times. Not for nothing but when you're losing......really?

6. Sheard could have lit up Brady and few times and was very quick to pull up beyond the normal I don't want a flag level. I think there's a high level of respect there.

7. Speaking of that before the game Brady and AV talked for quite a while which was good to see. I still wish AV had gone anywhere except the Colts at that point and time but I'm over it. He's going to make the NFL and Patriots HOF.

8. Did they show McGinest on TV opening the locker room door before the Patriots came out of the tunnel? Where it's an NFLN game I thought they might have pretty cool. I'm looking forward to his Football Life episode premiering tonight.

9. The defense was super aggressive last night at tearing at the receivers and ball carriers. That McCourty play was Bruschi-esque. The Colts had a lot of receptions taken away by that tenacity. I've never sat in the EZ before so I'm wondering if it was more having that angle coupled with being only 30 feet about field level.

10. One thing that's really hard to see at that angle are the inside running lanes when the offense is going towards the opposite end zone. Every run looked like there was no hole. Conversely when they were coming towards us it was really easy to see. The receivers getting open it was easy either way.
 

PatsFan37

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
9. The defense was super aggressive last night at tearing at the receivers and ball carriers. That McCourty play was Bruschi-esque. The Colts had a lot of receptions taken away by that tenacity. I've never sat in the EZ before so I'm wondering if it was more having that angle coupled with being only 30 feet about field level.
Excellent point. I thought more than a few of the Colts drops were forced by the close physical coverage. I (barely) remember one drop by Gilmore's receiver with Gilmore all over him and either Buck or Aikman said "he really should have had that ball". Well, maybe. Some of the drops were flat out bad hands but some were due to the highly contested nature of many of Luck's throws. Most of the time, it seemed to me, his receivers were not all that open.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top