Car@NE - Rewatch Thread

[luuked]

I wanna start early this week mostly because the last couple of rewatch threads have proven to be nice little sanctuaries of reason with no hot takes and mostly evidence based talk.

Maybe we can ask a mod (@Ross12 ?) to maybe help out to keep it that way and remove pointless posts that are off topic, dont contribute to the discussion or are simply trolling.


Anyway, the first thing that came to mind after waking up today and taking a quick look at some scenes in the condensed version of the game is that one play before halftime that seemed to have shattered whatever was left in terms of self confidence in the secondary.


Here from another angle



And here is where I am seeing this play fall apart already presnap because of something trivial:

Butler seems to be positioned a bit too shallow so Gilmore is pointing out to him that he needs to get back a few steps.



At the same time Rowe turns around and gives a quick hand symbol which most probably is supposed to let Gilmore know the assignment against the bunch formation. But Gilmore seems to still be facing Butler exactly at that point moment



Then when McCaffrey motions out DMac moves from his initial Robber-esque position closer to the LOS but leaves behind a ton of open space.



This entire sequence was just a cluster#### of communication caused by a player missing a handsign because he was trying to correct another players positioning.

 

[luuked]

After reading Dussaults take on yesterdays loss (Pats Posits: No Rest for the Wicked (Bad Defense) - PatsPropaganda) I think one of the more interesting things to maybe look at in the all22 will be the front seven:

Big number that stands out to me? One tackle-for-loss. As bad as the coverage was, that just shows how little disruption the Pats front is doing. The back end problems can be fixed and if they’re not heads are going to roll, but is this is a Super Bowl championship front seven? I have my doubts.

 

[PP2]

I wanna start early this week mostly because the last couple of rewatch threads have proven to be nice little sanctuaries of reason with no hot takes and mostly evidence based talk.

Maybe we can ask a mod (@Ross12 ?) to maybe help out to keep it that way and remove pointless posts that are off topic, dont contribute to the discussion or are simply trolling.


Anyway, the first thing that came to mind after waking up today and taking a quick look at some scenes in the condensed version of the game is that one play before halftime that seemed to have shattered whatever was left in terms of self confidence in the secondary.


Here from another angle



And here is where I am seeing this play fall apart already presnap because of something trivial:

Butler seems to be positioned a bit too shallow so Gilmore is pointing out to him that he needs to get back a few steps.



At the same time Rowe turns around and gives a quick hand symbol which most probably is supposed to let Gilmore know the assignment against the bunch formation. But Gilmore seems to still be facing Butler exactly at that point moment



Then when McCaffrey motions out DMac moves from his initial Robber-esque position closer to the LOS but leaves behind a ton of open space.



This entire sequence was just a cluster**** of communication caused by a player missing a handsign because he was trying to correct another players positioning.

Thank you for posting those- the clips are very helpful. When you do this again, can you please include more of the presnap motion? That will help us to understand if we are in man or zone and what scheme we are playing. From the little I could see, it appears that since McCourty shadowed the motion, the coverage on this snap was man, and when we look at Gilmore, his stance and footwork is terrible- he's not set, so he did not understand the defensive call at all. Definitely had a brain freeze here as far as translating the call into what he sees on field. IMO, Butler's position was correct- he was anticipating the crosser out of that bunch, sat over the middle to pick it up and executed properly.

 

[luuked]

Thank you for posting those- the clips are very helpful. When you do this again, can you please include more of the presnap motion? That will help us to understand if we are in man or zone and what scheme we are playing. From the little I could see, it appears that since McCourty shadowed the motion, the coverage on this snap was man, and when we look at Gilmore, his stance and footwork is terrible- he's not set, so he did not understand the defensive call at all. Definitely had a brain freeze here as far as translating the call into what he sees on field. IMO, Butler's position was correct- he was anticipating the crosser out of that bunch, sat over the middle to pick it up and executed properly.

I wanted to but that was as much as the broadcast gave me.

Once the All22 tape is available on gamepass we will get it here and have more info on all of that. I was just itching to get started on some plays.

 

[luuked]

When the Pats D has struggled, it was generally one part. They could not stop the run (2002) or they could not stop the pass (2010-2011). This defense does not appear to be good at anything, which is really shocking.

Would love to respond to this because I think that the secondary will be fine but I dont want to take this thread off topic into speculative territory as it is supposed to be a rewatch of a game. Lets please dont stray away from it too much.

 

[luuked]

when we look at Gilmore, his stance and footwork is terrible- he's not set, so he did not understand the defensive call at all. Definitely had a brain freeze here as far as translating the call into what he sees on field.

Which I think makes sense given that according to Reiss Gilmore was benched at the start of the second half only to be back in after a play because Rowe sustained that groin injury:

That might explain why defensive coordinator Matt Patricia yanked Gilmore for the start of the second half, replacing him in the base defense. But Gilmore returned one play later when his replacement, Rowe, left with a groin injury.

via Bill Belichick, Patriots' defensive coaches need to get their mojo back

 

[Ross12]

@luuked I have a somewhat busy day but I will try to keep checking in here every so often to keep things on track.

 

[luuked]

@luuked I have a somewhat busy day but I will try to keep checking in here every so often to keep things on track.

Thanks..

 

[turkeyneck]

This entire sequence was just a cluster**** of communication caused by a player missing a handsign because he was trying to correct another players positioning.

This is the essence of BB's commandment - taken from the Navy - 'do your job'.

It means more than don't be a slacker. The key part is 'your', as in don't be trying to do someone else's job because in doing so it means you are not doing your assigned job. That leads to a cascade of fail, as you effectively document in this case.

 

[luuked]

More from Chatham





Looks to me like Rowe lined up completely at the wrong position here.

EDIT:

Ok so here is that play from two broadcast angles:



The way he just stopped next to DMac, hesitates and then looks totally confused makes it hard for me to say what he really expected to happen on that play in terms of assignment. That was just awful.

Did he initially think his assignment was the person in motion and then suddenly remembered that this is false ?

Did he assume Gilmore would automatically pick up the outside receiver ? But then why did he looked so confused when he stopped following the motioning Panthers player ?

Jesus, people are *****ing about Gilmore but Rowe also got away with a couple of bad plays until he went out. Dont think I have seen a more half-assed and lazy tackle attempt on third down in a long time:

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Thanks for doing this because the only way I would rewatch the game would be like this:

 

[luuked]

Thanks for doing this because the only way I would rewatch the game would be like this:

As a Pats fan it sucks. As someone interested to learn about and understand football on a fundamental level those unexpected losses often are the most insightful because you get a flood of clever people doing it.

 

[Tony2046]

Man that's even uglier than I had thought.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

As a Pats fan it sucks. As someone interested to learn about and understand football on a fundamental level those unexpected losses often are the most insightful because you get a flood of clever people doing it.

It would be great if there was a fan experience/learning seminar on "How to watch a football" game to get more details on what they are doing. I'm shocked nobody has tried it out because it'd be fun to learn more and get a deeper understanding of what is going on.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

It would be great if there was a fan experience/learning seminar on "How to watch a football" game to get more details on what they are doing. I'm shocked nobody has tried it out because it'd be fun to learn more and get a deeper understanding of what is going on.

Check out Football Scouting Methods, from Steve Belichick.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Call Nink or Wilfork asap. Try to make a trade. This is a 1-3 team if the Texan player hangs on to the pick. And I'm sorry...you absolutely positively shouldn't be losing games when your offense scores 30.

IF they lose Thursday, you gotta bench someone or BB at least needs to give Patricia a break and take over the D himself.

Wrong thread. This is entirely for breaking down film. There are lots of other places to prophesy the the apocalypse.

 

[luuked]

Wrong thread. This is entirely for breaking down film. There are lots of other places to prophesy the the apocalypse.

The admins have been pretty good today about removing the whining. It will be gone sooner than later.

 

[long distance]

Call Nink or Wilfork asap. Try to make a trade. This is a 1-3 team if the Texan player hangs on to the pick. And I'm sorry...you absolutely positively shouldn't be losing games when your offense scores 30.

IF they lose Thursday, you gotta bench someone or BB at least needs to give Patricia a break and take over the D himself.

Please have some respect for the thread. You have plenty of threads open for wheeling and dealing..

 

[Hammer of Thor]

More from Chatham





Looks to me like Rowe lined up completely at the wrong position here.

EDIT:

Ok so here is that play from two broadcast angles:



The way he just stopped next to DMac, hesitates and then looks totally confused makes it hard for me to say what he really expected to happen on that play in terms of assignment. That was just awful.

Did he initially think his assignment was the person in motion and then suddenly remembered that this is false ?

Did he assume Gilmore would automatically pick up the outside receiver ? But then why did he looked so confused when he stopped following the motioning Panthers player ?

Jesus, people are *****ing about Gilmore but Rowe also got away with a couple of bad plays until he went out. Dont think I have seen a more half-assed and lazy tackle attempt on third down in a long time:

It's definitely possible that multiple people messed up that play.

When I look at that first clip, I'm seeing Rowe following in motion and then McCourty telling him to stop -- using his right arm to tell him to stop and his left arm to show him where he's supposed to be. Unlike the opening post with Gilmore, as captain and leader of the secondary this type of positioning is part of McCourty's job, and he knows the defense better than anyone back there.

Then Rowe clearly goes after the inside guy, but when he sees Gilmore with him, realizes the outside guy is open and trails after him, to obviously no effect.

But to Matt Chatham's point -- why would the most inside CB be covering the outside vertical route?

I think Gilmore was supposed to pick up Funchess and Rowe the inside guy, and McCourty was correcting Rowe to do that, but the message didn't get across to Gilmore either. That Reiss was speculating that Gilmore had been benched to start the 3rd quarter but wasn't really noticed because of the immediate injury to Rowe, only makes me feel more confident in this.

What a mess.

 

[luuked]

And another one.. and again Gilmore not involved in the bust



Maybe we can slowly stop bashing Gilmore specifically..