The massive cost of trading Garappolo

[Bourne Again Christian]

Grap is not Matt Flynn.
Grap beat Romos college stats and the eye test says he looks like Brady under center and has a lightening release I could be wrong but I say we keep him to make sure Brady is still defying age and logic going into next season.

 

[Nehalem]

I expect Cassel was moved because Belichick knew where Brady was physically and was comfortable with Hoyer. Belichick will do little differently with Brady and Brissett. If he believes Brady will age 75 years in the offseason and become old man river under center, then he will ask whether Brissett's current ability with a full season with the playbook and another preseason would make him an acceptable replacement. There was more uncertainty with Brady in 2009 than there is now, and the difference in backup QBs is Brissett has actually started a game and is absolutely a more coveted prospect (3rd round) than the undrafted Brian Hoyer.

The Patriots traded Cassel before drafting Hoyer.

 

[The Gr8est]

The Patriots traded Cassel before drafting Hoyer.

Hoyer was a UDFA.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Grap is not Matt Flynn.
Grap beat Romos college stats and the eye test says he looks like Brady under center and has a lightening release I could be wrong but I say we keep him to make sure Brady is still defying age and logic going into next season.

No
We keep JAG only if we do not receive a decent trade offer for him, q.v. a 1st...

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The reason the comebacks were required in two cases were Tom Brady had turned in lousy quarters of play. Had he not comeback, people would be emphasizing his "decline".

TFB played below norm in this SB for a while but you ignore the fact that he was being sacked and hit big time.
Replace him with a guy who can't last 2 games?

2014 season SB it was not his bad play that had us down going into the 4th QTR

Against the Ravens we were down big time; poor defensive play

You ignored the point that for the Pats to win their SBs they required over the top QB comebacks

 

[Ivan]

The reason the comebacks were required in two cases were Tom Brady had turned in lousy quarters of play. Had he not comeback, people would be emphasizing his "decline".

You nailed it, as usual, Tom Brady is the problem.

 

[MassPats38]

The Patriots traded Cassel before drafting Hoyer.

You're right (except for the drafted reference). That was Gutierrez on the roster in 2007 and there for 2008 when the season opened. I completely forgot about that dude.

 

[Ivan]

TFB played below norm in this SB for a while but you ignore the fact that he was being sacked and hit big time.
Replace him with a guy who can't last 2 games?

2014 season SB it was not his bad play that had us down going into the 4th QTR

Against the Ravens we were down big time; poor defensive play

You ignored the point that for the Pats to win their SBs they required over the top QB comebacks

As a rule people with agendas grow more and more irrational as reality keeps proving them wrong. The people who keep talking of Brady's imminent demise have been banging that drum for almost a decade and they were the ones clamoring to get rid of him in 2014 after the KC game. Like Borges and the CHB they are serially wrong and they just keep blocking out reality and insisting they are right.

 

[MassPats38]

Grap is not Matt Flynn.
Grap beat Romos college stats and the eye test says he looks like Brady under center and has a lightening release I could be wrong but I say we keep him to make sure Brady is still defying age and logic going into next season.

The eye test - meaning your unqualified assessment based on limited information?

JAG was not like Brady under center. They have different styles and abilities, and it remains to be seen if he can even come close to what Brady might be, now, as a new starter, or anywhere in between. Given how quickly he was injured (how many hits did he take before that happened?), he remains a really big question mark as to what precisely he could do if given a starter role because we know little of him.

I agree he is not Matt Flynn - because more was known about Matt Flynn when he went to the Seahawks because he played 3 full games in the NFL and did much more in at least 1 opportunity.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The eye test - meaning your unqualified assessment based on limited information?

JAG was not like Brady under center. They have different styles and abilities, and it remains to be seen if he can even come close to what Brady might be, now, as a new starter, or anywhere in between. Given how quickly he was injured (how many hits did he take before that happened?), he remains a really big question mark as to what precisely he could do if given a starter role because we know little of him.

I agree he is not Matt Flynn - because more was known about Matt Flynn when he went to the Seahawks because he played 3 full games in the NFL and did much more in at least 1 opportunity.

FWIW, the Miami D knocked something like seven QBs out of games this season.

 

[Rob0729]

Several things:

• No matter how much people want to put stock in Garoppolo's six quarters of production, he is a complete unknown as a starter in the NFL. And people overrrate his production in those six quarters. He was good, not great against AZ and most people overstate his production because they thought AZ was supposed to have a top defense in this league. And against Miami, they practically gave Garoppolo the quick pass and seemed to be more worried about not letting him pass down field. He has yet to see a defense game plan specifically for his strengths and weaknesses.
• I heard Michael Holley say this week that word out of Foxboro is that they feel that Brissett is the real deal and a likely heir apparent to Brady. The coaching staff absolutely loves this guy as it is shown by them flying him to games when he was on IR and activating him off the IR list. I think the Pats are more than happy to let Garoppolo go for a king's ransom and groom Brissett to replace Brady.

 

[Rob0729]

Grap is not Matt Flynn.
Grap beat Romos college stats and the eye test says he looks like Brady under center and has a lightening release I could be wrong but I say we keep him to make sure Brady is still defying age and logic going into next season.

Whoever gets Garoppolo as a starter (the Pats or someone else) may some day wish they had Matt Flynn over Jimmy. We have no idea what Garoppolo is. He could be the next Brady or he could be the next Brock Osweiler or anywhere in between.

College stats mean nothing. We see plenty of incredible college QBs who flame out in the NFL and plenty of unremarkable college QB have solid NFL careers.

And the eyeball test isn't as rosy as you make it either. I have seen him play in plenty of preseason games where his first and second reads aren't open and he holds onto the ball far too long and makes mistakes. The problem with his only starts against real competition, he faced two teams that mostly played zone coverage allowing his receivers to get a clean release and get open quickly. His first or second read was open most of the time.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I think JAG is a solid prospect as a starter and I think he's gonna be a good one. Nothing's certain though.
HOWEVER, his contract status and the GOAT's presence means we move on, hopefully THIS year because then we'll get something for him vs next year when we MAYBE get a 3rd for him a year later.

 

[chasa]

Grap is not Matt Flynn.
Grap beat Romos college stats and the eye test says he looks like Brady under center and has a lightening release I could be wrong but I say we keep him to make sure Brady is still defying age and logic going into next season.

yeah well teh eye test also said this defense would never get to the superbowl let alone win it, and la de ****ing da we won the title.

I'm ****ing sick of the "eye test" that everyone keeps touting.

 

[deroc5050]

I saw an average QB in Matt Cassel.

I see a good to elite QB in JG.. this is what my unqualified intuition tells me.
I was right about Brady. I haven't been impressed with any other back up New England QB since Brady took over until JG.

 

[deroc5050]

yeah well teh eye test also said this defense would never get to the superbowl let alone win it, and la de ****ing da we won the title.

I'm ****ing sick of the "eye test" that everyone keeps touting.

The eye test works usually. But what the eye test can't predict is how a football team develops over the course of the season. I have seen New England defenses that were just not good enough to get it done from 2009-2013.. From 2007 Super Bowl to the 2013 AFC C are defense let us down time and time again.

Its not all on the defense but alot of those games all we needed was a key stop and we couldn't get it.

 

[Ivan]

My eye test tells me that Danny Amendola is one lucky sonofab*tch.

 

[Ring 6]

The Patriots traded Cassel before drafting Hoyer.

The patriots didn't draft hoyer

 

[AzPatsFan]

I have a couple major disagrements with your analysis. The first and foremost is that mason is not a road grading mauler. He got drafted from georgia, an offense that ran the ball 95% of the time and they ran behind him 80% of those. I have never been as excited about a guard as I was when they drafted shaq. Dude serves more pancakes then ihop! It's his pass blocking that was a huge question Mark and he has gotten better at it. He plays strong nasty and mauls people pulling or drive blocking.

Yes the brisket has a totally different skill set then Brady or Grop and that makes his drafting curious. However, the idea that he can't be QB2 in 2017 because of that skill set is crap, because he did it in 2016. Now granted that game against Houston was more about the running game, taking advantage of turnovers, and the defense playing lights out but Briskit played solid mistake free ball with that team tailor made for Brady. My question for any back up QB is if the starter goes down for 4 games can they at least go 2-2? I believe he can seeing as he won the one game he was healthy in. Now long term can he take over as the starter in 3 years for Brady...idk but I am cautiously optimistic to see where he will be he has all the intangibles to be a good leader and the work ethic to improve his anticipation (best way to combat long wound up release) and ability to read defenses.

Trading Grop this year does weaken the 2017 squad no question but the return is making the 2018-2021 squads better with a solid blue chip top 15 prospect. If I was the GM I would start the bidding at a top 15 pick otherwise weakening my roster is not worth it and I would happily hold on to the best back up in the league. That said there is far too much smoke for there not to be fire when it comes to desperate teams being desperate for a QB. I have full faith in Brady still being Brady for at a Minimum 2017 which means I want to make the team around him as strong as possible. I trade Grop no questions asked if the deal I think is going to come happens.

Please stop confusing a babckup status in 2017. if that comes to pass, with a starters status 2018 and beyond. I separated them and discussed them seperately for that very reason. You modify the team for the new permanent starter and not for a backup.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

...

Besides I believe that once Brady realizes he isn't elite anymore he'll quit on his own. So we'd likely only have to endure one season of Brady just being a good but not great QB, and struggle through just a 1o or 11 wins season.

That!
Brady has said that he'll quit when he "sucks" and that he'll know when that is. I've always thought that Brady's definition of "sucks" will be that he can no longer play at an elite level.
Why the **** would Tom "GOAT" Brady want to play at anything below the top level? Why would he want to be regarded as "still one of the best QB's in the League, right behind [insert names here]"?