The Sports media are missing the reasons and value-add to the Garappolo Trade

[tom444]

We are in this position BECAUSE BB thinks ahead and isn't totally focused on the short term when it comes to the roster.

And in thinking ahead to the 2017 season Belichick is going to keep Garoppolo right where he is.

 

[DW Toys]

Agree, I'm afraid he's off his medication.

Not so fast Ivan!
Let me ask another question out there. If Cleveland knows and understands that a stud DE will never be the main reason for a Super Bowl ring, meaning those rings are funneled through your QB unless you are Trent Dilfer or Peyton that both had tremendous Defenses peaking at the right time (The Giants were not a dominant defense during the season in their SB win years, but they did "peak" at the right time). How many rings does JJ Watt have? How many Playoffs?

You need to get into the Playoffs before you get to the Super Bowl. The fastest way to the playoffs or be competitive is at QB. The point is you can be competitive without a superb defense. The Packers and Rodgers are a great example. Their Defense rots. Prescott in Dallas hid a mediocre Dallas D.

So why wouldn't the Browns consider trading the #1 pick? If they do give in, I suspect a trove of multiple picks are off the table. They might do the #1 and the #2 they got from the Texans in 2018. But it make sense because now they still have more Draft pieces with #12 in round 1, #33 and #52 in the second, #65 and seven more picks after that.

Right now answer quick, assuming we know Garret does not have any NFL tape and Garappolo just a little, who is more valuable, Cleveland?

Another thought; If Garrapolo was in this Draft class he would obviously be the top QB. Now does Cleveland opt for him at #1 pick?

Nobody has mentioned this, they also get Garappolo cheaper in 2017 than Garrett at $28mm for 5 with perhaps a$19mm signing bonus. So if Jimmy G does not work, Cleveland can bail and walk away paying him only $1.1mm.

Next question to consider.Let's say the Browns go for Trubisky at #12. His cost is $12.8 million for 4, for a guy that has not thrown a pass, versus $1.1 for Jimmy G. If he works out, Cleveland will be sure to at the least franchise him. Cleveland had to pay Griffin guaranteed $6.75 mm. How did that work?

Ivan here is another question. Do you think Coughlin is happy with Blake Bortles? Trade scenarios?
DW Toys

 

[patsfan13]

And in thinking ahead to the 2017 season Belichick is going to keep Garoppolo right where he is.

We will see AFTER he draft, everything prior to the draft is speculation.

 

[Ivan]

Not so fast Ivan!
Let me ask another question out there. If Cleveland knows and understands that a stud DE will never be the main reason for a Super Bowl ring, meaning those rings are funneled through your QB unless you are Trent Dilfer or Peyton that both had tremendous Defenses peaking at the right time (The Giants were not a dominant defense during the season in their SB win years, but they did "peak" at the right time). How many rings does JJ Watt have? How many Playoffs?

You need to get into the Playoffs before you get to the Super Bowl. The fastest way to the playoffs or be competitive is at QB. The point is you can be competitive without a superb defense. The Packers and Rodgers are a great example. Their Defense rots. Prescott in Dallas hid a mediocre Dallas D.

So why wouldn't the Browns consider trading the #1 pick? If they do give in, I suspect a trove of multiple picks are off the table. They might do the #1 and the #2 they got from the Texans in 2018. But it make sense because now they still have more Draft pieces with #12 in round 1, #33 and #52 in the second, #65 and seven more picks after that.

Right now answer quick, assuming we know Garret does not have any NFL tape and Garappolo just a little, who is more valuable, Cleveland?

Another thought; If Garrapolo was in this Draft class he would obviously be the top QB. Now does Cleveland opt for him at #1 pick?

Nobody has mentioned this, they also get Garappolo cheaper in 2017 than Garrett at $28mm for 5 with perhaps a$19mm signing bonus. So if Jimmy G does not work, Cleveland can bail and walk away paying him only $1.1mm.

Next question to consider.Let's say the Browns go for Trubisky at #12. His cost is $12.8 million for 4, for a guy that has not thrown a pass, versus $1.1 for Jimmy G. If he works out, Cleveland will be sure to at the least franchise him. Cleveland had to pay Griffin guaranteed $6.75 mm. How did that work?

Ivan here is another question. Do you think Coughlin is happy with Blake Bortles? Trade scenarios?
DW Toys

DW, if you go back you will see that I agreed with Pissah that your post was well thought out.

I'm not sure I agree that Cleveland will cough up what you think they will but it wasn't batsh.t crazy.

 

[ohiopatsfan]

Interest in a Garoppolo trade out here in NE Ohio is negligible and the sports talk shows don't even mention it any more. A few days ago, a mock draft came out that featured a Cleveland/New England trade. It was, I believe, four draft choices (first round #12 and two second rounders this and a second round next year).

Fans out here would revolt if a trade like that went down. There would need to be something else from the Pats before a trade like that would even be palatable. Of course, the Browns need just about everything, so adding a fringe player to the trade would certainly be possible.

Bottom line, I don't see a trade to the Browns happening, at least not for as much draft capital as BB is claimed to want.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Because starting in one year you can't afford to keep the backup with the salary cap. Sure JAGwads will show that theoretically there's lots of cap space next season. They forget three things
1) player agents know this too and demand and get bigger contracts with cap inflation; this erodes cap "surpluses"
2) the Pats recipe for success is DEPTH. That requires a competent bench, one that costs cap money, money that would be tied up in a 2nd franchise QB. BB will not abandon his recipe for success.
3) No franchise level QB wants to sit on the bench wasting away during his best physical years.

The recipe for getting to & winning SBs is NOT putting most of your cap into 2 franchise QBs at the expense of team quality and depth.

I agree depth is very important. Depth at QB is the most important depth position. BB knows this; and will keep Polo as insurance and get the same thing in the 2018 off season, just as he did with Cassel in 2008.

 

[patfanken]

Just another thought about Cleveland's draft situation that will cover the 3 drafts that run from 2016-18. With the 14 picks that they had last year and the 22 they have in the upcoming 2 drafts, the Browns will have picked 36 players.

Here's the problem even if they are successful with those picks, in fact ESPECIALLY if they are successful with those picks. They will eventually have to pay those players. Just look at what happene with the Pats when they hit on 4 or 5 guys a few years ago. We hit on Jones, Hightower, McCourty, Ryan, and Collins, and we ended up only being able to keep just 2 of them. With 34 picks if Cleveland just hits on 30% of those picks they will have an untennable situation a few years down the road where they will end up being the training ground for all those picks they have now, because even the good picks will end up leaving..

Just another reason why the Browns SHOULDN'T be afraid to to let go a few of those quality picks for the reasonable possibilty that they can gain a franchise QB for a decade. There really IS a scenario where you can have TOO many draft picks. And I think the football nerds that are running the show now in Cleveland SHOULD be aware of this.

So if they are truly trying to build some long term success to the banks of the Erie, that FO should be willing to part with what is necessary to get JG, and I don't think it will need to be the #1 pick either. Basically because I doubt BB wants a pick that high, because there is no clear QB stud that would make someone pay to move up.

 

[XLIX]

You're basing this on having to make a decision on his long-term future at the time of the trade. Nobody says you have to do this. It is traditionally done, but that doesn't mean you must do it, and it means you carry the majority of the risk upfront.

If you trade #12 and #33 and Jimmy G sucks, then you've "lost" either way. Adding a long-term deal with lots of money guaranteed on day 1 just makes it a bigger loss. So there's no point bringing up the draft compensation, it has no connection to the type of deal you need to sign him to.

Right, but without the deal in place then if you trade #12 and #33 for him and he plays very well, you could still lose him to another team. Yes the exclusive rights franchise tag can forestall that temporarily, but that is far, far from the ideal situation. Players generally don't like being franchised, so you run the risk of having a very unhappy QB.

Bottom line is this: If you think he's a franchise QB, you make that commitment and pay the picks and money you need to. If you don't think he is a franchise QB, stay away. Don't dip just one toe in the water.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Right, but without the deal in place then if you trade #12 and #33 for him and he plays very well, you could still lose him to another team. Yes the exclusive rights franchise tag can forestall that temporarily, but that is far, far from the ideal situation. Players generally don't like being franchised, so you run the risk of having a very unhappy QB.

Bottom line is this: If you think he's a franchise QB, you make that commitment and pay the picks and money you need to. If you don't think he is a franchise QB, stay away. Don't dip just one toe in the water.

I think you're over-rating the risk associated with the franchise tag. Remember, the Browns have over $60M in salary cap space still remaining. Nobody is going to outbid them if they want, so even if a team were willing to offer up 2 1sts and then give a big deal to Jimmy G, the Browns can simply match if they don't do the exclusive franchise tag.

And while players generally don't like being tagged, it doesn't prevent a deal from happening, and can sometimes help facilitate a deal. Drew Brees got the exclusive tag in 2012 and then signed a 5-year, $100M deal. Wilfork got the franchise tag and signed a 5-year deal shortly after.

You're probably worried about the situation becoming like the Kirk Cousins fiasco in Washington, but Washington is totally ****ing stupid so that's a special exception.

I think if Cleveland makes the deal, they will sign him to an extension. I'm just saying that they should consider waiting a year. There's very little downside to doing so.

 

[Se7eN]

Anyone else believe Bill is scouting these top round talents simply for further data to be on hand for the future in terms of game planning against them and to potentially acquire a few via trade down the line from teams that have mis-used them?

 

[supafly]

Anyone else believe Bill is scouting these top round talents simply for further data to be on hand for the future in terms of game planning against them and to potentially acquire a few via trade down the line from teams that have mis-used them?

I believe that you're correct in stating that there are other reasons to scout players than just the possibility of drafting, alone. We have certainly seen this from him throughout the years.

That said, I also think Belichick needs to be prepared for all situations, obviously including the possibility of acquiring a pick in the first or second round. Personally, I don't believe that we go into the draft without a first or second round selection. Only time will tell.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

What could Cleveland get for the first pick in the draft and would it be enough that they could entice to part with jimmy while Cleveland still walks away from this draft with Four players in the first two rounds?

 

[supafly]

What could Cleveland get for the first pick in the draft and would it be enough that they could entice to part with jimmy while Cleveland still walks away from this draft with Four players in the first two rounds?

Under the scenario that you propose, there's no reason why they can't have Garoppolo and four picks in the top two rounds. That first overall pick is worth a lot, as we've seen in the past.

Is it worth the RGIII deal? No, but they could certainly acquire an additional first for 2018 by trading down, and that isn't even touching the idea of second rounders for 2017 and 2018. Even without trading that first overall pick, CLE still has eight selections in the top two rounds for '17 and '18. They have plenty of ammo either way.

 

[DarrylS]

IMO Pats fans are overvaluing JG, and do not see a #1 pick, slight possibility of #12, but more likely some combinations of #2's & 3's in this and in future drafts..

The Pats will not pay JG the going salary for QB's next year to keep him here as some sort of insurance...

The Pats will not franchise JG next year, that defies the economic policy of the Patriots..

Need to remember the cast of back up QB's that have gone on from the tutoring of McDaniels, BB and #12 have not exactly lit the NFL on fire; Cassell, Mallett, O'Connell, Hoyer etc. So the "shiny bead" theory of QB ability assimilation is probably a non-factor.

Just because JG has been here for 3 years does not seem to mean all that much.. IMO Brissett is the future.

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

I dont know how you can say Jacoby is the future without seeing him fix his slow release.
Go successfully thru more than 1 progression.
Work on making his throw more compact.
Once he can do those things and add touch on his throws we can talk about it.

Right now he is more Mallett than Brady.

 

[Soliel]

I doubt that jg got hacked.... I think he is being traded.

 

[Big Bucks]

Wow at this CBS mock has the Browns trading back up to 1.02 from 1.12

Look at what they will give in said Mock.

2017 NFL Mock Draft: Browns trade for No. 2 pick, then take Garrett and Trubisky 1-2

Would the 49ers take the 12th, 33rd and 108th picks this year as well as next year’s first and third?


And people wonder whether we will get any first rounder for Jimmy. haha

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

Fans out here would revolt if a trade like that went down.

Oh no! The Cleveland fans are revolting!

Weren't these the same fans that demanded Belichick be fired for benching beloved Cleveland sports icon Bernie Kosar for Vinnie Testaverde?

 

[borg]

With so many young players arriving via the draft last year, this year, and going forward....I would think Cleveland would put some value in the leadership role of their next franchise QB (lol). Expecting a newbie like Trubisky with his 13 collegiate games to fill the role as a team leader is absurd.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

Do you think Coughlin is happy with Blake Bortles? Trade scenarios?
DW Toys

I made that bat sh*t crazy prediction weeks ago. Jaguars trade the #4 for Jimmy G.

Coughlin is not stupid. Unlike your typical fantasy football goof, he has actually seen Bortles play and knows he's terrible. Jimmy G for the #4 pick makes a heck of a lot more sense that wasting it on Trubisky. The prospect of adding a Marshon Lattimore or Jamal Adams is too enticing to pass up for Belichick.

This makes too much sense not to happen.