Do Patriot fans have less loyalty to Tom Brady than Browns fans did to Bernie Kosar

[Angelpats]

You guys realize in two or three years Brady will probably agree to less money than what JG will likely ask for, and in that case, what's best for the team. Even if the long ball loses some zip it's the short and intermediate throws that wins us Super Bowls. I think Brady can play for 4-5 years and even if he doesn't we will have a competing backup no matter who it is.

 

[AzPatsFan]

If JG is starting the bulk of the season I doubt they're going far in the playoffs if they even get there at all.

Why not? When Brady took over he had ZERO experience and won a Superbowl his first year starting. So inexperienced QBs DO win. Polo has demonstrated he can play at a competitive NFL level in 1.5 to 2 games already. He did it against two Playoff level clubs and not the Browns or Jaguars level clubs. He has been groomed. He appears ready and will be even more groomed in 2018, when he will probably play.

 

[Joey007]

That was my understanding as well. He was done with the Pats either way, Belichick just let him retire out of respect. But it didn't affect the team one way or the other.

Meaning Bill wasn't going to keep him around out of respect at that point even if he wanted to keep playing.

 

[sb1]

Why not? When Brady took over he had ZERO experience and won a Superbowl his first year starting. So inexperienced QBs DO win. Polo has demonstrated he can play at a competitive NFL level in 1.5 to 2 games already. He did it against two Playoff level clubs and not the Browns or Jaguars level clubs. He has been groomed. He appears ready and will be even more groomed in 2018, when he will probably play.

That's kind of overstating it a bit imo. There was almost no scouting done on him. The Dolphins were a bottom 5 pass defense in the NFL last season and the Cardinals were under .500. Also it seemed JG started to struggle against the Dolphins once it looked like they started to figure him out.

In those 1.5 games we learned that JG can play at a competitive level with the reins on him and staying within the system and not improvising too much. But we also learned that one hard hit puts him out of commission.

Imo, he's not a QB that has shown to date that he's got what it takes to take a team deep in the playoffs and win titles. Not yet.

 

[aluminum seats]

Meaning Bill wasn't going to keep him around out of respect at that point even if he wanted to keep playing.

Exactly

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I would root for the patriots.

My entire approach is what is best for the patriots. It just happens that what is best for the patriots unless or until something changes is brady.

See, that's exactly where I am now.

And I also acknowledge what I don't know - last page or so we've got some folks who are "absolutely positive" etc. of things... I'm not the "absolutely positive" type.

Truth is however loyal we are, the future's unwritten.

Another possibility: You play JG as the starter b/c of signs of Tom's "decline" in the future, 2, 3, 5 years from now.

Just close your eyes and pretend. Somehow they're both still around.

JG gets injured and Brady takes over in game 2. Brady plays through game 6. JG plays games 7-9, gets injured again.

The point of all this is, we saw a really low sample size and then an injury. We didn't have that fear with Brady either. Not to mention the possibility that JG just ain't as good as Brady. Right now that's a certainty. But maybe he is just a JAG.

We love him b/c of potential but that's all it is at present. At some point the brain trust will weigh two uncertainties, one regarding Brady, the other regarding JG or another QB. The day is coming. It is inevitable. Bummer.

I would root for the Pats even if *I* was playing for the Jest.

From what we've seen of their play you wouldn't be the only one

 

[Thelonious]

So fans who want their team to win the superbowl every year, dont really have what it takes to be fans.

Got it

No, you don't have it at all. Either you know this and are dishonest, or you do not know and are stupid. It doesn't really matter which is the case, of course.

 

[Ring 6]

Let me start by saying I'm in the camp that hopes to see Brady retire a career Patriot. Whether that happens after this season or years from now, I'd like to see him go out with us. However, I've learned that Belichick is very correct much, MUCH more often than he is wrong, so if he decides to move on, I'll trust him.

But it's very obvious why some fans are intrigued by Jimmy. No, it's not the 6 quarters he played last season, looking great while doing it. It's because if even some of the reports of rejected trade offers are true, the Pats turned down a ton of draft capital for a guy that may never take another snap in New England. Belichick wouldn't do that simply because he thinks Jimmy is a great backup or not capable of taking over the team at some point. The fact that he's still here, and the fact that Belichick still wants him here, is why some think he could possibly be great.

And while Brady has proven to be in incredible shape and there's no sign that he's close to done, we all watched Manning go from best statistical season in NFL history to probably the worst starting QB in the league in just two years.

And while I haven't read every post that inspired you to start this thread, wanting to move on from Tom and wondering if moving on is best for the long term are two very different things.

It is very likely the reason JAG want traded THIS YEAR is because of what he provides THIS YEAR in terms of insurance.
So you reading of your reading of the tea leaves that causes you to create an appeal to authority, where the authority has not been shown to agree with the point you are making is all bolloxed up.

Brady is not manning.
Brady did not miss a season with a career threatening injury and need to undergo experimental treatment and likely a heavy dose of HGH to get back on the field.
If Brady is guzzling hgh and you can show me an injury that affects his ability to do his job then I will go along with the assumption he is ready to come apart at the seams.
Without that all you have is an example of a guy whose serious medical issues and questionable means if dealing with them caught up to him, which is totally incongruous to Tom Brady.

 

[Bruins29]

No, you don't have it at all. Either you know this and are dishonest, or you do not know and are stupid. It doesn't really matter which is the case, of course.

The only thing that does not matter is you here. We will let you know when you do matter.

 

[TennisBallHead]

Boo hoo. That's the business. Once he's served his purpose, drop him like a bad habit.

 

[Ring 6]

There is simply no chance that JAG is better than a healthy Brady any time soon. If Brady had a debilitating injury well that's why they kept him for this year and potentially beyond.



Contaminate? Because my opinion is that it's silly to talk about the possibility of keeping a player around without addressing that he won't stay?

Why in the world would garopollo accept a 5th and 6th season as a backup? I can tell you right now that if he would he should be dumped quickly because he isn't the guy to succeed Brady if he is content to sit on the bench when he could be playing.

At the end of the day you have unique and incredible player, the GOAT, who is playing as well as he ever had and is currently the best QB in the NFL. If losing him is the opportunity cost of keeping any other player you let the other player walk.
The correct move for the franchise is to drain every ounce of greatness ou of the GOAT, have an heir ready, keep them as long as feasible and then replace them.

The correct move for the franchise is to drain every ounce of greatness ou of the GOAT, have an heir ready, keep them as long as feasible and then replace them.


That is the exact prescription that you object to doing. BB looked hard, tried several backups, rejected Cassel, Hoyer, Davey, and several others, and has settled on Polo as his designated candidate. Yet you can't stand the choice and anyone who suggests it.

Make up your mind. [/QUOTE]
Wrong. The correct approach is get everything out of Brady and gave a backup plan in place when he is done NOT CAST HIM ASIDE WHILE HE IS STILL THE BEST QB IN THE NFL TO KEEP THE CURRENT BACKUP.

You get a new backup, not get rid of the reason you win championships just so you don't have to go find a different heir.

 

[Ring 6]

Boo hoo. That's the business. Once he's served his purpose, drop him like a bad habit.

And you think he is done serving his purpose?

 

[Tony2046]

For 2017? Absolutely.

For 2018? A lot less clear.

If you could guarantee me that Brady would play 2018 and 4 more top-level seasons after that, I'd take Brady and let JG go in a heartbeat.

But if I knew Brady would be done (whether by dropoff in play or by Gisele getting him to retire or whatever) after 2018 then I'd let him go after 2017 and keep JG rather than losing JG to get just one more year from Brady.

What if that one more year was a Super Bowl run? Would you forfeit that to move on to JG?

 

[heavyde050]

I respectfully disagree BB has said it's hard to tell the difference between them running the offense
Lombardi and Schefter said he sees him as a franchise guy.
Cleveland would of easily given up a first for him do you honestly think they wanted Kizer over Jimmy G?
Did BB say the same about the other QBS you mentioned about only knowing the difference because of the jersey number?
Do you know BB to give lip service in that high of a regard.
Ok he said it to hype up his value you say there was no better time to trade him then this draft.
He is a free agent next year when do you think his value would be higher?
I love Tom but I don't want this franchise to go from the Greatest off all time to Ryan Fitzpatrick kind of talent or worse.

IF Jimmy is a franchise QB you better be damn sure Tom is staying for 4 years or more before you let Jimmy walk out that door.

This is why BB is where he is and we are where we are.
He will have to be right because being wrong is going to sink this franchise into mediocrity.
Now for people who said they are Brady fans not Patriot fans I don't know what to say I grew up a Bledsoe fan I root for the laundry not one single player.
I hope Tom plays for 10 more years but the evidence points to it not happening.
The fans who leave when Brady retires or else wise to me will be like the fans who said they were Bulls fan because of Jordan or Lions fans because of Sanders.

I don't want to speak in absolutes....so I am 99.9% certain that BB can tell the difference between Jimmy and Brady in practice. The quote you are referring to is nothing more than coach speak - a way of saying that Jimmy is capable of running the offense. If the two players were truly interchangeable, Brady would already be gone.
I am sorry, I don't think that BB quote should be taken literally.
Agree with everything else you said.

 

[Thelonious]

The only thing that does not matter is you here. We will let you know when you do matter.

Was there a rational response, or is this really the best you have to offer? Bantering with you is casting pearls before swine, I find. (Look it up.)

 

[Ring 6]

See, that's exactly where I am now.

And I also acknowledge what I don't know - last page or so we've got some folks who are "absolutely positive" etc. of things... I'm not the "absolutely positive" type.

Truth is however loyal we are, the future's unwritten.

Another possibility: You play JG as the starter b/c of signs of Tom's "decline" in the future, 2, 3, 5 years from now.

Just close your eyes and pretend. Somehow they're both still around.

JG gets injured and Brady takes over in game 2. Brady plays through game 6. JG plays games 7-9, gets injured again.

The point of all this is, we saw a really low sample size and then an injury. We didn't have that fear with Brady either. Not to mention the possibility that JG just ain't as good as Brady. Right now that's a certainty. But maybe he is just a JAG.

We love him b/c of potential but that's all it is at present. At some point the brain trust will weigh two uncertainties, one regarding Brady, the other regarding JG or another QB. The day is coming. It is inevitable. Bummer.



From what we've seen of their play you wouldn't be the only one

The day will come. But it doesn't come when the GOAT is playing like the GOAT just because you are going to lose the backup.

As for some if your other comments, you just can't keep both.
You can't afford it and even if you could why would JAG accept a backup job after 4 years of being a backup when he had a legit chance to start somewhere.

Here are the options as I see them.

1)If Brady is brady like in 2017 and does not retire JAG is tagged and traded.
2) if Brady falls apart this year and cannot be relied upon JAG becomes the QB and Brady retires or goes elsewhere
3) if Brady sustains a career threatening injury JAG becomes the QB and Brady retires.

I think all 3 are no brainers.


How ever the discussion here has been if Brady is brady in 2916 and shows no sign of decline you have to get rid of him because you can't lose Jimmy. That, to me, is idiotic.

 

[Deus Irae]

There will come a time when, just as with every other starter, Tom Brady has enough of a decline in play and/or health that it's time for his replacement to step in. For Tom Brady, just as for every other starter in the NFL, it's possible that such a time will come either before, or during, this next season, just as it's possible that it's still years away.

That does not excuse the idiotic nonsense that gets spewed in thread after thread on this general topic around here. People should have learned from the "Trade Brady!/Keep Cassel" line of threads, but we seem to have a whole bunch of people who are impervious to learning and logic. In short, we seem to have a whole lot of Jets fans in Patriots clothing.

And the ridiculous excuse of "I root for the laundry" just makes people look even more stupid.

 

[supafly]

Also it seemed JG started to struggle against the Dolphins once it looked like they started to figure him out.

He had 232 yards and 3 touchdowns in less than a half of play. How, exactly were the Dolphins figuring him out?

 

[bormio]

He had 232 yards and 3 touchdowns in less than a half of play. How, exactly were the Dolphins figuring him out?

Plenty of QBs look good for a few games. Only a special few do it in multiple SBs. No way, no how do I ever part with a TB12 playing well in order to keep JG - age be damned. SBs are damned hard to win. Brady has proven he can.

 

[Ring 6]

He had 232 yards and 3 touchdowns in less than a half of play. How, exactly were the Dolphins figuring him out?

Have to look up the exact numbers but it was something along the lines of TDs on his first 3 drives then struggles after that.
Whether thats figuring him, a blip, or just life in the NFL, it was one very good quarter (or thereabouts) then a bit so good one