Do Patriot fans have less loyalty to Tom Brady than Browns fans did to Bernie Kosar

[PatsFanInVa]

What do you think my answer to my own question would be?

I don't know, but apparently, while speculative, it's a good tool to separate Patriots fans from Brady fans.

- edit: I see my earlier post assumed facts not in evidence, i.e., that you raised the hypothetical question for the opposite reason I was reacting to.

Thanks for your patience with that assumption, and my apologies for assigning you that role.

 

[ivanvamp]

No I expressed an opinion that a big piece of tat discussion is whether JAG will even accept stating as a backup. Despite your attempt to control that us a valid part of that discussion

And THAT piece was already being discussed elsewhere. If you actually read my OP, I made reference to that in my opening paragraph:

"But with all the JG speculation going on in several other threads, I thought it would be good to have a thread dedicated to the financial implications of keeping BOTH Brady and JG. Since, of course, that IS one of the possible scenarios out there. "

So that piece of the discussion was being held elsewhere, and I wanted to talk just about the financial and roster implications of trying to keep both of them. But noooooo...you guys just had to use that thread to go right back to talking about what you were discussing in a half dozen other threads.

The choices are dump the GOAT which is dumb, franchise him which is too costly, let him walk, or tag and trade. Barring severe injury to Brady the reverse order is the one that is sensible.

Well, see, the point of the other thread was to discuss what the actual implications would be of the bolded option, what it would do to their cap, and what other roster moves would have to be made to make room for JG.

Instead, you just claimed it's too expensive and is a stupid idea, instead of actually trying to discuss whether it was feasible. And you littered that thread with crap that was being discussed in numerous other threads.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't know, but apparently, while speculative, it's a good tool to separate Patriots fans from Brady fans.

Actually quite the contrary. It's a way to separate Patriot fans from garoppolo fans.
Patriot fans = is about championships, we understand why we have won them and want to win more.

Garoppolo fans= what's that shiny thing over there? Let's blindly run through traffic to get it because while we are focused on winning championships someone might find that shiny thing and it could be worth something.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

There is still time before having to make this decision and anything can happen, but when it comes to Brady I never want to see him in any other jersey. I'll leave the decisions to BB, he's done pretty well up to this point. Besides, there's a reason why the Brows are the Browns.

I don't want to see Brady in any other uniform either.

These threads are interesting because through the hypotheticals, they're asking the question of what happens if/when Brady's interests are deemed - not by us, but by the team - to not coincide with the team's interests.

Can we keep in him a Pats uni for all time?

I dunno.

Difference between me and some of our local savants is, I don't claim to know either

 

[aluminum seats]

Snark begets snark.


Not true because fans are calling for BB to make a dumb decision (fans are calling to throw him over which BB is certainly not)which he will never make unless and until things change drastically from where they are today

My post wasn't snarky at all, it was a very direct point that since you acknowledged your thread title was inaccurate you should try to be more precise with them in the future.

And, of course Bill Belichick isn't "calling to throw him over" which would never happen on this planet. That doesn't mean he's not considering things which you apparently aren't.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Actually quite the contrary. It's a way to separate Patriot fans from garoppolo fans.
Patriot fans = is about championships, we understand why we have won them and want to win more.

Garoppolo fans= what's that shiny thing over there? Let's blindly run through traffic to get it because while we are focused on winning championships someone might find that shiny thing and it could be worth something.

Horse crap. I've said several times that the evaluation of the players in question is basically above my paygrade, and at least once made reference to the fact that he played nicely for 6 quarters during a low-pressure portion of the season. I've also raised the possibility that he's just injury prone. If JG is a JAG, I am fine with that. Like I said, that would just mean that the league called Belichick's bluff, in terms of trade value.

I'm not a JG fan. I'm rooting for him to be good rather than bad, because that outcome benefits the team either way.

We can encounter plenty of people holding black-and-white, opposite positions from our own without creating them.

I want nothing more than brilliance from Brady, in a Pats uniform, until I die at the age of 90, when he is in his 70s, and he's just won his 20th SB. Furthermore I'd like to die in bed with a supermodel. Furthermore I'd like to not really die, I'd like genetic research to suddenly accelerate into infinite lifespans, with all apparent aging reversed to the age of 30. That would be good.

I do not think, however, that such considerations are in play in the immediate future. Given the hypotheticals posed, if you ask me whether I'll be a "Brady's JEST" fan or a "JG's Pats" fan, I'm taking the latter.

You didn't answer the hypothetical that I was responding to.

Would you root for the JEST or the Pats, in the stipulated circumstances?

 

[aluminum seats]

From what I heard with Bruschi, he retired in August that year because Bill was going to cut him otherwise. So he was ready to cut him if he needed to.

That was my understanding as well. He was done with the Pats either way, Belichick just let him retire out of respect. But it didn't affect the team one way or the other.

 

[Ring 6]

Horse crap. I've said several times that the evaluation of the players in question is basically above my paygrade, and at least once made reference to the fact that he played nicely for 6 quarters during a low-pressure portion of the season. I've also raised the possibility that he's just injury prone. If JG is a JAG, I am fine with that. Like I said, that would just mean that the league called Belichick's bluff, in terms of trade value.

I'm not a JG fan. I'm rooting for him to be good rather than bad, because that outcome benefits the team either way.

We can encounter plenty of people holding black-and-white, opposite positions from our own without creating them.

I want nothing more than brilliance from Brady, in a Pats uniform, until I die at the age of 90, when he is in his 70s, and he's just won his 20th SB. Furthermore I'd like to die in bed with a supermodel. Furthermore I'd like to not really die, I'd like genetic research to suddenly accelerate into infinite lifespans, with all apparent aging reversed to the age of 30. That would be good.

I do not think, however, that such considerations are in play in the immediate future. Given the hypotheticals posed, if you ask me whether I'll be a "Brady's JEST" fan or a "JG's Pats" fan, I'm taking the latter.

You didn't answer the hypothetical that I was responding to.

Would you root for the JEST or the Pats, in the stipulated circumstances?

I would root for the patriots.

My entire approach is what is best for the patriots. It just happens that what is best for the patriots unless or until something changes is brady.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Keeping Brady is clearly what's best for the team.

For 2017? Absolutely.

For 2018? A lot less clear.

If you could guarantee me that Brady would play 2018 and 4 more top-level seasons after that, I'd take Brady and let JG go in a heartbeat.

But if I knew Brady would be done (whether by dropoff in play or by Gisele getting him to retire or whatever) after 2018 then I'd let him go after 2017 and keep JG rather than losing JG to get just one more year from Brady.

 

[Love The Drake]

This season I 100 percent agree it's Toms Job til he would show otberwise.
Now if Tom gets injured and Jimmy plays lights out afc championship or Superbowl victory you and I both know what BB will do.

Let's also ask if Brady regresses how many games do you think we should keep Brady in 3 games 8 games 16.

 

[sb1]

I don't believe for a second that BB would have turned down a first round pick for JG if the offer was really out there.

 

[PatriotsReign]

I don't have a desire to get rid of Brady, to keep Brady, to trade JG or keep JG

I'm just a huge Patriots fan who will accept whatever Kraft and BB decide to do.

I'll bum when Brady's run of the greatest ever is over, but how can I get upset over how it ends?

I think that would be selfish and ungrateful of me

 

[sb1]

This season I 100 percent agree it's Toms Job til he would show otberwise.
Now if Tom gets injured and Jimmy plays lights out afc championship or Superbowl victory you and I both know what BB will do.

Let's also ask if Brady regresses how many games do you think we should keep Brady in 3 games 8 games 16.

If JG is starting the bulk of the season I doubt they're going far in the playoffs if they even get there at all.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

Actually quite the contrary. It's a way to separate Patriot fans from garoppolo fans.
Patriot fans = is about championships, we understand why we have won them and want to win more.

Garoppolo fans= what's that shiny thing over there? Let's blindly run through traffic to get it because while we are focused on winning championships someone might find that shiny thing and it could be worth something.

Let me start by saying I'm in the camp that hopes to see Brady retire a career Patriot. Whether that happens after this season or years from now, I'd like to see him go out with us. However, I've learned that Belichick is very correct much, MUCH more often than he is wrong, so if he decides to move on, I'll trust him.

But it's very obvious why some fans are intrigued by Jimmy. No, it's not the 6 quarters he played last season, looking great while doing it. It's because if even some of the reports of rejected trade offers are true, the Pats turned down a ton of draft capital for a guy that may never take another snap in New England. Belichick wouldn't do that simply because he thinks Jimmy is a great backup or not capable of taking over the team at some point. The fact that he's still here, and the fact that Belichick still wants him here, is why some think he could possibly be great.

And while Brady has proven to be in incredible shape and there's no sign that he's close to done, we all watched Manning go from best statistical season in NFL history to probably the worst starting QB in the league in just two years.

And while I haven't read every post that inspired you to start this thread, wanting to move on from Tom and wondering if moving on is best for the long term are two very different things.

 

[AzPatsFan]

No team with an unproven QB who has played 1 1/2 NFL games had a legitimate shot.



I don't think anyone expects that. It's 2018,2019 and maybe 2020 that are the real concerns.

Actually Brady would be 46. At that point the question becomes whether the chance of winning with JAG is really any higher than the chance of winning with whoever else (someone equally as unproven) and is that worth pissing away a chance to win more rings with the GOAT in 18-20. To me it's clearly not.


At this point they are pretty much the same as with JAG. There is no guarantee that JAG is better than "next guy".
It's seems insane to sacrifice 4 years for the sake of what might happen in the 5th.

[quoye]See, the Patriots (Kraft, Belichick) have to think about NOW but also down the road. It's entirely possible that letting JG go and going with TB would be a benefit in 2017 and 2018. I'd say, in fact, that that's a good bet. But at some point in the next few years, it's almost certain that Brady will not be as good. He's an incredible athlete, but he's not superhuman. He's not a cyborg. Avocado ice cream may be great for you, but it's not going to make you superman forever. So BB is thinking about the next great Patriots QB. It may be that he thinks JG is that guy, and that not only will he be that guy in 2022 (and beyond), but that he'll also STILL give them a great shot in 2017-18.

There is simply no chance that JAG is better than a healthy Brady any time soon. If Brady had a debilitating injury well that's why they kept him for this year and potentially beyond.



Contaminate? Because my opinion is that it's silly to talk about the possibility of keeping a player around without addressing that he won't stay?

Why in the world would garopollo accept a 5th and 6th season as a backup? I can tell you right now that if he would he should be dumped quickly because he isn't the guy to succeed Brady if he is content to sit on the bench when he could be playing.

At the end of the day you have unique and incredible player, the GOAT, who is playing as well as he ever had and is currently the best QB in the NFL. If losing him is the opportunity cost of keeping any other player you let the other player walk.
The correct move for the franchise is to drain every ounce of greatness ou of the GOAT, have an heir ready, keep them as long as feasible and then replace them.[/QUOTE]

The correct move for the franchise is to drain every ounce of greatness ou of the GOAT, have an heir ready, keep them as long as feasible and then replace them.


That is the exact prescription that you object to doing. BB looked hard, tried several backups, rejected Cassel, Hoyer, Davey, and several others, and has settled on Polo as his designated candidate. Yet you can't stand the choice and anyone who suggests it.

Make up your mind.

 

[sb1]

That is the exact prescription that you object to doing. BB looked hard, tried several backups, rejected Cassel, Hoyer, Davey, and several others, and has settled on Polo as his designated candidate. Yet you can't stand the choice and anyone who suggests it.

Make up your mind.

There is zero chance any of those guys were ever seriously considered as the heir to Brady regardless of how they played. They were backups and nothing more. There's a reasonably good chance the same is true of JG.

 

[sb1]

Let me start by saying I'm in the camp that hopes to see Brady retire a career Patriot. Whether that happens after this season or years from now, I'd like to see him go out with us. However, I've learned that Belichick is very correct much, MUCH more often than he is wrong, so if he decides to move on, I'll trust him.

But it's very obvious why some fans are intrigued by Jimmy. No, it's not the 6 quarters he played last season, looking great while doing it. It's because if even some of the reports of rejected trade offers are true, the Pats turned down a ton of draft capital for a guy that may never take another snap in New England. Belichick wouldn't do that simply because he thinks Jimmy is a great backup or not capable of taking over the team at some point. The fact that he's still here, and the fact that Belichick still wants him here, is why some think he could possibly be great.

And while Brady has proven to be in incredible shape and there's no sign that he's close to done, we all watched Manning go from best statistical season in NFL history to probably the worst starting QB in the league in just two years.

And while I haven't read every post that inspired you to start this thread, wanting to move on from Tom and wondering if moving on is best for the long term are two very different things.

I think it's simpler. I am positive no team offered the Patriots much more than a bag of balls for JG, and that's why no deal was made. And if true, it's not hard to understand why when you look at JG's contract.

JG did an admirable job filling in for Tom, even though there was very little scouting on him, the teams he faced weren't all that, and his performance was in my opinion a notch or two below "great". But he did what he was asked to do. The bigger problem is that he has taken quite a few sacks in his limited career - and he was supposed to play 4 and he couldn't make it through 1 and a half games. And if reports are true, he backed out of playing game 4 because he couldn't go and forced the team to play Brissett who had no business being on the field with his hand injury.

I think the team will absolutely move on when the time comes. I'm not remotely close to convinced it will be to JG. Wouldn't be surprised at all if they draft the heir next April.

 

[sb1]

Would you root for the JEST or the Pats, in the stipulated circumstances?

I would root for the Pats even if *I* was playing for the Jest.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Whether it makes me a bad fan or not, i have no loyalty to any single player. Whenever bb does decide its in the best interest of the team to go with a new qb, i will support the decision.

 

[Love The Drake]

I respectfully disagree BB has said it's hard to tell the difference between them running the offense
Lombardi and Schefter said he sees him as a franchise guy.
Cleveland would of easily given up a first for him do you honestly think they wanted Kizer over Jimmy G?
Did BB say the same about the other QBS you mentioned about only knowing the difference because of the jersey number?
Do you know BB to give lip service in that high of a regard.
Ok he said it to hype up his value you say there was no better time to trade him then this draft.
He is a free agent next year when do you think his value would be higher?
I love Tom but I don't want this franchise to go from the Greatest off all time to Ryan Fitzpatrick kind of talent or worse.

IF Jimmy is a franchise QB you better be damn sure Tom is staying for 4 years or more before you let Jimmy walk out that door.

This is why BB is where he is and we are where we are.
He will have to be right because being wrong is going to sink this franchise into mediocrity.
Now for people who said they are Brady fans not Patriot fans I don't know what to say I grew up a Bledsoe fan I root for the laundry not one single player.
I hope Tom plays for 10 more years but the evidence points to it not happening.
The fans who leave when Brady retires or else wise to me will be like the fans who said they were Bulls fan because of Jordan or Lions fans because of Sanders.