Both Jimmy & Butler to stay Pat

[long distance]

So basically what you are saying is that the GM, who has gone into almost every season he's led this team WITHOUT an experienced back up QB in virtually every year BB has been the HC, was an idiot. But in THIS year, suddenly it is critical that we have a top flight back up. All those other years just don't count. Clearly in those other 15 odd years it didn't matter that we have a starting quality back up QB.

Can you remind me just who that ***hole GM was?

Looking forward to your idle thoughts..

 

[letekro]

Here's the thing. In the end we are still trading the #12 and 52 (as an example) for an asset that will never see the field under ideal circumstances. This is especially painful given the fact we are missing an edge rusher prospect, and forfeiting the chance to pick in the top half of the first half of a draft in over a decade. Who knows when that will happen again.

My feelings are not about not wanting to have JG as the back up this year, it's about what we gain vs what we lose by not making that transaction.

So basically what you are saying is that the GM, who has gone into almost every season he's led this team WITHOUT an experienced back up QB in virtually every year BB has been the HC, was an idiot. But in THIS year, suddenly it is critical that we have a top flight back up. All those other years just don't count. Clearly in those other 15 odd years it didn't matter that we have a starting quality back up QB.

Can you remind me just who that ***hole GM was?

You're missing the fact that JG's value extends far beyond being a 1-yr backup.

 

[DarrylS]

Pleased to hear Butler may continue to be a Patriot...

Jimmy G not so much, as there is too much to be gained by trading him.. IMO this is a point of his highest trade value, little risk for the team that trades for him and some good picks for the Pats. The rationale that they can franchise him next year seem ludicrous to me as sign a back up for about $24 million defies the Patriots economic system..

But all of this is based on what a "guy says" so take all of this with a grain of salt, does anyone think that BB and his inner circle are calling up Shefter and telling him what they are planning on doing???

All part of the media frenzy leading up to the draft..

 

[Ivan]

Jimmy G is the future

nothing will be more satisfying than watching him lift Lombardi #7

I'd prefer to get #7 before 2023.

 

[stinkypete]

New Orleans is falling prey to the habit of overvaluing draft picks over an established, borderline elite player.

This draft is loaded, but with 3rd round talent. Belichick saw this. What use is a 1st round pick if he won't start for 3 years? Belichick played the odds that Cooks will be a better player than the 32nd pick can offer. He's probably right, and even if wrong, Cooks will be more impactful during Brady's last years than anyone available in the draft.

The Saints theoretically have an opportunity to get a CB who, paired with Devin Broux, will finally seal up their secondary, for the 42nd pick. Now, they're going to roll the dice with a rookie who will not be ready to start for a couple of years. By the time this CB matures, Brees will be on his last legs.

This is why the Patriots have made 7 consecutive AFC championship games, while the Saints are stuck in a perpetual 8 - 8.

 

[Rob0729]

Im glad we have a GM that will not risk the whole team and their effort for some draft picks.

Too much work and sacrifice by too many people went into building this amazing roster to throw it all away by going into the season without the best possible back up at the position that matters - all.

Risk the whole team by trading a back up QB? Huh?!?

So if Belichick trades Garoppolo in the next few days, we can kiss the Pats' Super Bowl hopes away?

What kind of bizarro world are people arguing a back up QB for one year is more valuable than a first round pick and trading away a back up QB will "risk the whole team and their efforts"?

I've got news for you. If Brady goes down for any significant period of time with or without Garoppolo on this team, it will risk the whole team and their efforts. There is no guarantee that Garoppolo will ever be nearly as good as he was the first six quarters of last season ever again. There is no guarantee the guy can make it through half a season or even three or four games without getting injured.

 

[Rob0729]

We have no idea as to what the coaching staff feels in regards to the possibility of Brissett being the main backup. He may need another year. There may have been some examples where Belichick gambled with a backup who wasn't as knowledgeable in our system, (not as many as you suggest, in my opinion) but Tom Brady wasn't 40 years old, either.

I think we should just trust Bill Belichick's read on the situation. If the market is anywhere near as hot as mediots and posters sugggest, there should be some interest next spring, as well. Obviously, his trade value is likely at its highest right now (fingers crossed), but that doesn't necessarily mean that he'll be given away for a sack of potatoes next March, either.

If the Pats can get the #12 pick for Garoppolo and the Pats don't plan to move on from Brady after this year, trade him and give Ryan Fitzpatrick an one year deal. Fitzpatrick is an excellent BACK UP QB who has the skill set and brains to be a more than adequate back up.

I think that the market for Garoppolo isn't what we thought it was. Cleveland was supposedly hot on AJ McCaron as their #2 option and they haven't pried him away from Cincy and Cincy would probably take much less even from a division rival for him. Maybe no one is offering a first for Garoppolo and at that point, it may not be worth trading for him. The thing is that we will never know.

 

[patfanken]

You're missing the fact that JG's value extends far beyond being a 1-yr backup.

No, you seem to be forgetting that JG is not going to be a Patriot past this season as long as Tom Brady is still on the team. So exactly WHAT will be his value to the Pats other than as a quality back up for this season?

 

[aluminum seats]

If the Pats can get the #12 pick for Garoppolo and the Pats don't plan to move on from Brady after this year, trade him and give Ryan Fitzpatrick an one year deal. Fitzpatrick is an excellent BACK UP QB who has the skill set and brains to be a more than adequate back up.

I think that the market for Garoppolo isn't what we thought it was. Cleveland was supposedly hot on AJ McCaron as their #2 option and they haven't pried him away from Cincy and Cincy would probably take much less even from a division rival for him. Maybe no one is offering a first for Garoppolo and at that point, it may not be worth trading for him. The thing is that we will never know.

Very much agree with the sanity of your posts here. The "keep JG as insurance" brigade is BANANAS.

Where it gets puzzling is the absolute position from Schefter that the Pats will not trade him, full stop. THAT is the issue...

 

[BelichickFan]

Very much agree with the sanity of your post here. The "keep JG as insurance" brigade is BANANAS.

Where it gets puzzling is the absolute position from Schefter that the Pats will not trade him, full stop. THAT is the issue...

A couple of things :

I am in favor of trading him for the #12 pick or more. Just to make that clear. However I absolutely get the insurance argument, this isn't 30 year old Brady, it's 40 year old Brady. A torn ACL, bad concussion, Super Bowl win, etc, would be calculated very differently at 40 than at 30. Any of them could cause him to retire. For me insurance isn't just "Brady misses part of all of this season", it's "in 12 months is there a chance Brady isn't an active NFL player anymore". It's unlikely but way more possible than in earlier years.

That said, if Shefter really knew all that time ago that the Patriots weren't trading JG then the value being offered is irrelevant barring something crazy as the decision point appeared to be "we want him" and not "we aren't getting offered enough for him".

 

[Keyser Söze]

BB knows best, but I can't believe we're not trading Jimmy this off season. They could grab another QB early with one of the picks they could get.

 

[aluminum seats]

A couple of things :

I am in favor of trading him for the #12 pick or more. Just to make that clear. However I absolutely get the insurance argument, this isn't 30 year old Brady, it's 40 year old Brady. A torn ACL, bad concussion, Super Bowl win, etc, would be calculated very differently at 40 than at 30. Any of them could cause him to retire. For me insurance isn't just "Brady misses part of all of this season", it's "in 12 months is there a chance Brady isn't an active NFL player anymore". It's unlikely but way more possible than in earlier years.

That said, if Shefter really knew all that time ago that the Patriots weren't trading JG then the value being offered is irrelevant barring something crazy as the decision point appeared to be "we want him" and not "we aren't getting offered enough for him".

Agree with your second point, which is what makes this so interesting...

 

[dafoe2016]

This would be great news. The only bad news is waiting five months to see this team in action.

I have mixed feelings. Excited to see the team. But I also hate winter more than I hate anything on the planet Earth. And fall time I start having nightmares about it I dread it so much. I'm in no hurry to see September.

 

[dafoe2016]

I will feel much more confident about keeping Butler after Thursday passes. If we keep Butler and we can get the pass rush to step up, a couple of guys break out, this could go form a very good defense to a great, suffocating one.

I might be in the minority here, but I enjoy watching great defense more than I do high flying offense. Those 03/04 teams were two of my favorites. Not only that, I feel like it's more of an advantage in the playoffs. Look no further than the 2001 Rams or the 2007 Pats for examples of where great offense is handcuffed by great defense. Or the Seahawks/ Broncos Superbpowl a couple years ago. I feel more confident with a great defense than a great offense.

 

[letekro]

No, you seem to be forgetting that JG is not going to be a Patriot past this season as long as Tom Brady is still on the team. So exactly WHAT will be his value to the Pats other than as a quality back up for this season?

How do you know that?

 

[BelichickFan]

No, you seem to be forgetting that JG is not going to be a Patriot past this season as long as Tom Brady is still on the team. So exactly WHAT will be his value to the Pats other than as a quality back up for this season?

First, we don't know that. It's entirely possible we'll Franchise him and consider 2017 and 2018 as a 2 year/$26M deal. Expensive but doable. That gets us through Brady's age 40 and 41 season and re-evaluate in 24 months. Second, even if we trade him in 12 months he'll still have trade value as a Franchised player. His value would be lower but we'd still get something decent for him.

Bottom line, I think many have forgotten how difficult it is to get a good QB. I know it's unlikely Brady will be gone before the 2019 season but the consequences would likely be catastrophic if he retired.

 

[FourierSeries]

I'll address my new favorite punching bag, @KontradictioN , in this thread, since the effeminate flower resorted to reporting me in the other thread.

Since you started begging and crying like a ***** about digging up your posts post-AFCCG, here is the first one in your series of over exaggerations, all from the same thread:

We are On To Atlanta....

In this one, you state that you have no clue how the Pats would deal with the Falcons offense (of course you don't, since your dumbass rarely ever has a clue about anything other than what your favorite flavor of ice cream is.) You make it seem as though any approach NE goes with will lead to complete disaster, because the Falcons offense is just such a bad matchup for the NE defense. (NE goes on to hold that offense to only 21 points and 1-8 on 3rd down, including many clutch stops in the 2nd half.)

We are On To Atlanta....

To someone attempting to clam you down, telling you that Bill will have two weeks to gameplan and prepare, you replied that it doesn't matter how long he has. This genius literally said that it doesn't matter how long the greatest coach in the history of the game has to prepare, because the LBs will be a liability regardless, and that will lead to disaster. It's not as if we've ever seen Bill develop a gameplan to stifle high powered offenses before (as a DC and as a HC) or anything.

We are On To Atlanta....

You then go on to say it will be a long day for the defense, once again emphasizing how bad of a match up it is. Once again, just to reiterate, the defense was barely on the field, because they were incredibly efficient on 3rd down. So much for "a long day." The defense had their way with that offense, and the lack of athleticism at LB did not hinder their ability to shut them down when it mattered most. As anyone with a brain (this does not include you) could have predicted, Bill prepared the defense superbly in those 2 weeks.

Par for the course for you last season. From September all the way to February, nothing but **** posts (that all turned out to be wrong) from a sub-educated peasant.

Back to Butler. Of course they played Cover 2 based on opponent. Against teams with legit WR threats, they were mostly in Cover 2 for the duration of those games. Go down the list of opponents. Even against Denver and their ****ty QB, that was primarily a Cover 2 game. Same with the Texans and their ****ty QB in the first meeting - very rarely were they in Cover 1 or Cover 3 that game. Perfect approach, as you've got an elite safety unit to cover up for the weaknesses of the CBs against elite WRs.

The defense last season was elite - best in the league, actually - because they had many different pieces that fit the system and because they were coached by the best in the game. Hell, most of them were rejects from other teams or undrafted. There's no need to overrated a single player just because he was labelled CB1.

Butler has performed very well in his role, and will continue to do very well along side Gilmore, but you're an imbecile if you don't believe he would take an enormous step back and that he would be exposed in a different system, with a different coach, and without elite safeties back there.

The anxiety and mental fragility you display in the gameday threads makes sense though. You put so much stock into what's supposed to be a form of entertainment. So much so that as we all know by know, since you post about it literally every time the 2007 season is brought up, you cried like a ***** after SB42. Imagine crying like a ***** due the the result of a football game. Tell us more about that, fragile flower.

 

[supafly]

First, we don't know that. It's entirely possible we'll Franchise him and consider 2017 and 2018 as a 2 year/$26M deal. Expensive but doable. That gets us through Brady's age 40 and 41 season and re-evaluate in 24 months. Second, even if we trade him in 12 months he'll still have trade value as a Franchised player. His value would be lower but we'd still get something decent for him.

Bottom line, I think many have forgotten how difficult it is to get a good QB. I know it's unlikely Brady will be gone before the 2019 season but the consequences would likely be catastrophic if he retired.

Something no one has mentioned yet to my knowledge, but since the tag/trade idea would lessen the trade value due to the high cost of the franchise tag, is it possible to make him more attractive to other potential suitors by simply extending him first?

Obviously, we'd be opening up a whole new can of worms in terms of discussion with the ins/outs of that kind of situation, but it's a possibility that I've been considering, lately. In the interest of all parties, it would likely have to be a short term deal of only 1-2 yrs in the vein of Osweiler's pact, but it could help to lessen the sting of losing some trade value.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'll address my new favorite punching bag, @KontradictioN , in this thread, since the effeminate flower resorted to reporting me in the other thread.

Since you started begging and crying like a ***** about digging up your posts post-AFCCG, here is the first one in your series of over exaggerations, all from the same thread:

We are On To Atlanta....

In this one, you state that you have no clue how the Pats would deal with the Falcons offense (of course you don't, since your dumbass rarely ever has a clue about anything other than what your favorite flavor of ice cream is.) You make it seem as though any approach NE goes with will lead to complete disaster, because the Falcons offense is just such a bad matchup for the NE defense. (NE goes on to hold that offense to only 21 points and 1-8 on 3rd down, including many clutch stops in the 2nd half.)

We are On To Atlanta....

To someone attempting to clam you down, telling you that Bill will have two weeks to gameplan and prepare, you replied that it doesn't matter how long he has. This genius literally said that it doesn't matter how long the greatest coach in the history of the game has to prepare, because the LBs will be a liability regardless, and that will lead to disaster. It's not as if we've ever seen Bill develop a gameplan to stifle high powered offenses before (as a DC and as a HC) or anything.

We are On To Atlanta....

You then go on to say it will be a long day for the defense, once again emphasizing how bad of a match up it is. Once again, just to reiterate, the defense was barely on the field, because they were incredibly efficient on 3rd down. So much for "a long day." The defense had their way with that offense, and the lack of athleticism at LB did not hinder their ability to shut them down when it mattered most. As anyone with a brain (this does not include you) could have predicted, Bill prepared the defense superbly in those 2 weeks.

Par for the course for you last season. From September all the way to February, nothing but **** posts (that all turned out to be wrong) from a sub-educated peasant.

Back to Butler. Of course they played Cover 2 based on opponent. Against teams with legit WR threats, they were mostly in Cover 2 for the duration of those games. Go down the list of opponents. Even against Denver and their ****ty QB, that was primarily a Cover 2 game. Same with the Texans and their ****ty QB in the first meeting - very rarely were they in Cover 1 or Cover 3 that game. Perfect approach, as you've got an elite safety unit to cover up for the weaknesses of the CBs against elite WRs.

The defense last season was elite - best in the league, actually - because they had many different pieces that fit the system and because they were coached by the best in the game. Hell, most of them were rejects from other teams or undrafted. There's no need to overrated a single player just because he was labelled CB1.

Butler has performed very well in his role, and will continue to do very well along side Gilmore, but you're an imbecile if you don't believe he would take an enormous step back and that he would be exposed in a different system, with a different coach, and without elite safeties back there.

The anxiety and mental fragility you display in the gameday threads makes sense though. You put so much stock into what's supposed to be a form of entertainment. So much so that as we all know by know, since you post about it literally every time the 2007 season is brought up, you cried like a ***** after SB42. Imagine crying like a ***** due the the result of a football game. Tell us more about that, fragile flower.

I didn't report you. I don't report anyone. Quick question before I break this down: did you think that the match-up of the Falcons backs vs. the Patriots linebackers was a good one for the Pats? Why or why not?

 

[supafly]

I'll address my new favorite punching bag, @KontradictioN , in this thread, since the effeminate flower resorted to reporting me in the other thread.

Since you started begging and crying like a ***** about digging up your posts post-AFCCG, here is the first one in your series of over exaggerations, all from the same thread:

We are On To Atlanta....

In this one, you state that you have no clue how the Pats would deal with the Falcons offense (of course you don't, since your dumbass rarely ever has a clue about anything other than what your favorite flavor of ice cream is.) You make it seem as though any approach NE goes with will lead to complete disaster, because the Falcons offense is just such a bad matchup for the NE defense. (NE goes on to hold that offense to only 21 points and 1-8 on 3rd down, including many clutch stops in the 2nd half.)

We are On To Atlanta....

To someone attempting to clam you down, telling you that Bill will have two weeks to gameplan and prepare, you replied that it doesn't matter how long he has. This genius literally said that it doesn't matter how long the greatest coach in the history of the game has to prepare, because the LBs will be a liability regardless, and that will lead to disaster. It's not as if we've ever seen Bill develop a gameplan to stifle high powered offenses before (as a DC and as a HC) or anything.

We are On To Atlanta....

You then go on to say it will be a long day for the defense, once again emphasizing how bad of a match up it is. Once again, just to reiterate, the defense was barely on the field, because they were incredibly efficient on 3rd down. So much for "a long day." The defense had their way with that offense, and the lack of athleticism at LB did not hinder their ability to shut them down when it mattered most. As anyone with a brain (this does not include you) could have predicted, Bill prepared the defense superbly in those 2 weeks.

Par for the course for you last season. From September all the way to February, nothing but **** posts (that all turned out to be wrong) from a sub-educated peasant.

Back to Butler. Of course they played Cover 2 based on opponent. Against teams with legit WR threats, they were mostly in Cover 2 for the duration of those games. Go down the list of opponents. Even against Denver and their ****ty QB, that was primarily a Cover 2 game. Same with the Texans and their ****ty QB in the first meeting - very rarely were they in Cover 1 or Cover 3 that game. Perfect approach, as you've got an elite safety unit to cover up for the weaknesses of the CBs against elite WRs.

The defense last season was elite - best in the league, actually - because they had many different pieces that fit the system and because they were coached by the best in the game. Hell, most of them were rejects from other teams or undrafted. There's no need to overrated a single player just because he was labelled CB1.

Butler has performed very well in his role, and will continue to do very well along side Gilmore, but you're an imbecile if you don't believe he would take an enormous step back and that he would be exposed in a different system, with a different coach, and without elite safeties back there.

The anxiety and mental fragility you display in the gameday threads makes sense though. You put so much stock into what's supposed to be a form of entertainment. So much so that as we all know by know, since you post about it literally every time the 2007 season is brought up, you cried like a ***** after SB42. Imagine crying like a ***** due the the result of a football game. Tell us more about that, fragile flower.

Fourier--chill, bud. I think this may be the first time I've ever seen someone attempt to move their pissing match to another thread. Holy ****. I had to go back and make sure I wasn't seeing things. For whatever it may be worth to you, I highly doubt that Kontra reported you. You gained the attention of the moderators, that's all. Relax.