Both Jimmy & Butler to stay Pat

[patfanken]

I've been fine with Butler staying here all along. In fact I prefer it. The reality of today's NFL is that "eras" last about 2 seasons. Good teams (with the exception of the Pats) can come and go every few years, just look at the Ravens. Just 3 years ago Colin Kapernick was the next great thing and the Niners were the stuff of dynasties. It can go right or wrong VERY quickly.

The point being that perhaps the wisest attitude to take is year to year. Even the best and most stable teams, like the Pats are going to add around 15 new players to their roster, every year. That's about 25% turnover on the low end. When BB tells us that what happened last season has no bearing on this one, he isn't BS'ing us. You LITERALLY have to rebuild your team every single year, and you LITERALLY don't know what you have until Novemeber.

I'm with Rob. I won't believe JG isn't going to be traded until after the first day of the draft. His value will NEVER be higher to the market. The QB draft will rarely be this bad. His contract situation will never allow the Pats to get more than fire sale value after this season. To keep him past the draft only means to me that the Pats are planning to move on from Brady following this next season, regardless of how he is playing.

But that being said, the 2017 team WILL have better QB depth if JG is on it, and will be better prepared to compete for a title if Brady did go down. So if you believe, as I do, that "windows" in the NFL last about 2 years; you might not be happy if JG isn't trade, but you should be OK with it......for this season.

 

[zydecochris]

Cyrus had a horrible mental season. Can't see it repeating. With his mind right he was damn good at Alabama.

When did that happen? Was there an intramural league where he dominated, or something?

I think it was more than an intramural league.

"He was easily among the country’s best punt returners and corners, anchoring a secondary that ranked eighth nationally and that was second in the SEC in pass efficiency defense.

Against Michigan State in the Playoff Semifinal Cotton Bowl game, Jones was named the Crimson Tide’s Defensive Most Valuable Player. He also returned five punts for 80 yards in the 38-0 victory, including the aforementioned 57-yard TD. With the Spartans driving toward the end zone at the end of the first half, his goal-line interception snuffed out a scoring opportunity that could have changed the complexion of the game.

Against Clemson in the National Championship game, he made five tackles and broke up a pass in the Crimson Tide’s exciting 45-40 win over the Tigers, securing the program’s 16th national title."

http://alabamanewscenter.com/2016/04/27/44733/

 

[DaBruinz]

I always laugh when people who should know better start making statements about what teams will/won't do in the week leading up to the draft.

There are more lies and propaganda during NFL Draft Week than there was during WWII.. (yes, it's an exaggeration).. But seriously. Time and again we've been told, outright, not to believe anything we hear during this week. Yet you have people like King and Schefter running to their blog or twitter saying that xyz is no longer going to happen.. It's just hilarious..

 

[BelichickFan]

I'm with Rob. I won't believe JG isn't going to be traded until after the first day of the draft. His value will NEVER be higher to the market. The QB draft will rarely be this bad. His contract situation will never allow the Pats to get more than fire sale value after this season. To keep him past the draft only means to me that the Pats are planning to move on from Brady following this next season, regardless of how he is playing.

Keeping him gives us an insurance policy we hope to never use.

Maybe he wins #6 and retires. Or tears and ACL or suffers a bad concussion and retires. Obviously I hope not but he's about to be 40 years old, the decision making process will be different than 10 years ago.

Maybe a career ender doesn't happen but he sprains an MCL and is out 4-6 weeks mid season. Big deal to have Jimmy sitting there.

There's no end of possibilities and Jimmy prevents a single point failure at the single most important position in all of sports.

It's not about maximizing his value. It's about having a playoff caliber QB if something bad happens. I would trade him for the right price but not just because this is his max value. I'm not saying I would make him unavailable at any price but that price would be higher than high.

 

[DW Toys]

When did that happen? Was there an intramural league where he dominated, or something?

Cousin, As everyone knows I am more of a FA or Trade advocate. So it warmed my heart this year to see young "proven" NFL players picked up.

Yes#1.......Looking at Jones, unless he redeems himself he gets thrown into the Ras-I Dowling, Terrance Wheatley (Mr. Quick Twitch) and Darius Butler CB bin-of-sin.

Yes#2, I do enjoy watching the Drafts and envisioning how each pick can help. But.........Pure fact is from Rounds 1-7 there is only a 17% chance that a players Drafted will be on the Drafting Team as a Pro Bowl player, starter, valued back up or ST guy, within a fair three year term of service. The rest are square pegs, unmotivated to compete or are injured.

The best Teams keep the least picks as they have less holes to fill. So one or two players per 7 average are on their Drafted Teams deemed as successful.

We could throw darts and be in that range....So I say that a young proven player can be a better value for a Team with few holes to fill.

Let's just keep stockpiling youthful Starters instead of definite maybe Draft picks.

We have a need at pass rusher and faster OLB? The very, very under the radar 6'8" DE Devin Taylor with 11 NFL (not college) sacks the last two years who backed up Ziggy in Detroit. He is only 26 and very good NFL tape and Mychal Kendrick who stared for the Eagles a few years ago till the D changed, can be had for a 5th Rounder. Methinks bot are better than the kids we could get in this Draft and have real NFL games under their belt.

That being said, I am losing faith in the BB mantra "value" if he can get 4 or 5 top picks for a clip board holder who may or may not be the next TB. If two work out, the trade was successful.

One underlying possibility. He is doing JG a solid by fending off offers from terrible Teams that might kill the kid's career.
He was pissed at Collins so Cleveland for a comp pick (come on!) was an acceptable punishment.
DW Toys

 

[meatface]

I really never thought the Butler trade was going to happen, everyone seemed so sure of it and yet it kept not happening.

 

[Snooky97]

Cousin, As everyone knows I am more of a FA or Trade advocate. So it warmed my heart this year to see young "proven" NFL players picked up.

Yes#1.......Looking at Jones, unless he redeems himself he gets thrown into the Ras-I Dowling, Terrance Wheatley (Mr. Quick Twitch) and Darius Butler CB bin-of-sin.

Yes#2, I do enjoy watching the Drafts and envisioning how each pick can help. But.........Pure fact is from Rounds 1-7 there is only a 17% chance that a players Drafted will be on the Drafting Team as a Pro Bowl player, starter, valued back up or ST guy, within a fair three year term of service. The rest are square pegs, unmotivated to compete or are injured.

The best Teams keep the least picks as they have less holes to fill. So one or two players per 7 average are on their Drafted Teams deemed as successful.

We could throw darts and be in that range....So I say that a young proven player can be a better value for a Team with few holes to fill.

Let's just keep stockpiling youthful Starters instead of definite maybe Draft picks.

We have a need at pass rusher and faster OLB? The very, very under the radar 6'8" DE Devin Taylor with 11 NFL (not college) sacks the last two years who backed up Ziggy in Detroit. He is only 26 and very good NFL tape and Mychal Kendrick who stared for the Eagles a few years ago till the D changed, can be had for a 5th Rounder. Methinks bot are better than the kids we could get in this Draft and have real NFL games under their belt.

That being said, I am losing faith in the BB mantra "value" if he can get 4 or 5 top picks for a clip board holder who may or may not be the next TB. If two work out, the trade was successful.

One underlying possibility. He is doing JG a solid by fending off offers from terrible Teams that might kill the kid's career.
He was pissed at Collins so Cleveland for a comp pick (come on!) was an acceptable punishment.
DW Toys

The other thing you need to take into account with these are they smart enough to play for the patriots.. and I'm not on about the draft..

Think this is one of the most undervalued traits people forget with pateiots when it comes to drafts. We rarely draft players who cannot understand our concepts, if they don't then they are out of here.. other thing the draft can allow us to do is MOLD certain players to what we'd like them to do..

You have to be intelligent to play for this team, unless your a HOF.

 

[JMC00]

As for Garoppolo, I only want to keep him if the Pats are convinced he is a top 5-10 QB and they are planning to move on from Brady after this season. Or if no one is offering close to what we think he would commend (like say a second round pick only). Otherwise, I think it is stupid to pass on a first round pick (possibly the 12th overall pick) for a back up QB. You don't pass on what might be perennial Pro Bowler/All Pro for a QB to be a back up for one season.

Browns front office comes off like a front office that would offer 33 and 65 for Garoppolo and think Belichick will eventually agree to it because he'd rather get more now (2 draft picks this year) for Garoppolo than less in the future (comp pick in 2 years) and if he doesn't want to then they are fine waiting a year, ending up with likely another top-5 pick and trying to sign Garoppolo.

They definitely think they "got one over' on Belichick with the Collins trade

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Regarding any possible JG trade. I wouldn't put it past a team to try to trade a draft pick (say #1 next year) with a pick this year (4th/3rd rounder) after day 1. That way they can keep their pick this year and optimistically give the Pats a lesser pick (because they'll assume their team does better which will yield the Pats with a lower draft pick in the 1st round)

Don't want you guys to get bored with potential draft rumors if nothing happens day 1 .

 

[BradyFTW!]

Saints want to pay him like a top CB but don't want to give up top CB compensation? Lmfao

Good for BB to keep him for the year. If he sits out he sits out.

I think that makes sense from their perspective. They're willing to pay him like a CB1 but they don't want to trade a 1st AND pay him like a CB1. Basically, they don't want to pay the premium price tag for him twice over. Can't blame them, they would've been foolish to do it. Seattle's the only team I can think of right now that's done it recently, and they've done it twice and would take both of them back if they could.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think that makes sense from their perspective. They're willing to pay him like a CB1 but they don't want to trade a 1st AND pay him like a CB1. Basically, they don't want to pay the premium price tag for him twice over. Can't blame them, they would've been foolish to do it. Seattle's the only team I can think of right now that's done it recently, and they've done it twice and would take both of them back if they could.

Eh.... That's potentially misleading, though, depending upon the situation with Cooks. The Patriots overpaid for Cooks, after all.

 

[raduray]

Wouldn't that be tampering?

 

[BelichickFan]

Wouldn't that be tampering?

They did it before he signed his tender, he was a RFA and not Patriots "property". Once he signed his tender, that's different.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

They did it before he signed his tender, he was a RFA and not Patriots "property". Once he signed his tender, that's different.

Unless the Pats gave him permission.

 

[Froob]

You really don't think the Bulls move Jimmy Butler if they blow this 2-0 lead?

 

[brdmaverick]

Keep hearing Pats don't have a first round pick....like some have forgotten we got Cooks.

It depends on what perspective you viewing it from.

If you are a big draft nut and want to watch the draft then it's true that the Pats literally will not make a selection in the first round.

In terms of acquiring talent I agree that they got the value of a first rounder in Brandin Cooks.

 

[MagicMarker]

I find the Butler talk posturing. The Saints knew what the Patriots were asking while they were negotiating with him. Deadlines spur action! (Which means I have to stay up and watch the first round all the way to the end).

 

[mgteich]

Don't want you guys to get bored with potential draft rumors if nothing happens day 1 .

The trade Jimmy for draft picks will not stop he is traded or until he is playing for another team.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Eh.... That's potentially misleading, though, depending upon the situation with Cooks. The Patriots overpaid for Cooks, after all.

Cooks is still on his rookie deal, which in of itself makes it a different situation. Harvin was signed to a new deal as part of the trade, and Graham was traded to the Seahawks one year after signing a new deal.

 

[Rob0729]

Keeping him gives us an insurance policy we hope to never use.

Maybe he wins #6 and retires. Or tears and ACL or suffers a bad concussion and retires. Obviously I hope not but he's about to be 40 years old, the decision making process will be different than 10 years ago.

Maybe a career ender doesn't happen but he sprains an MCL and is out 4-6 weeks mid season. Big deal to have Jimmy sitting there.

There's no end of possibilities and Jimmy prevents a single point failure at the single most important position in all of sports.

It's not about maximizing his value. It's about having a playoff caliber QB if something bad happens. I would trade him for the right price but not just because this is his max value. I'm not saying I would make him unavailable at any price but that price would be higher than high.

When in NFL history was a GM stupid enough to pass on the 12th overall pick to keep a back up QB just in case the starter goes down.

But what if Brady goes down and we find out that Garoppolo isn't a playoff caliber QB? Say Brady goes down with an ACL and Garoppolo plays for a large portion of the year and after teams develop a book on him, they discover that if they bump his receivers off the line and he starts to hold onto the ball too long and gets sacked a lot of pressured into making dumb decisions. That has been his weakness in his preseason play.

Say that the Pats were offered the 12th overall pick and the next JJ Watt was on the board at that spot.

If the Pats are offered a high first round pick for Garoppolo and they pass on it because he wants Garoppolo as a back up for 2017 and is prepared to let him go in 2018, Belichick needs to go through the concussion protocol. You don't give up a high or even low first round pick for a back up QB for one year. You just don't.