Both Jimmy & Butler to stay Pat

[BelichickFan]

When in NFL history was a GM stupid enough to pass on the 12th overall pick to keep a back up QB just in case the starter goes down.

But what if Brady goes down and we find out that Garoppolo isn't a playoff caliber QB? Say Brady goes down with an ACL and Garoppolo plays for a large portion of the year and after teams develop a book on him, they discover that if they bump his receivers off the line and he starts to hold onto the ball too long and gets sacked a lot of pressured into making dumb decisions. That has been his weakness in his preseason play.

Say that the Pats were offered the 12th overall pick and the next JJ Watt was on the board at that spot.

If the Pats are offered a high first round pick for Garoppolo and they pass on it because he wants Garoppolo as a back up for 2017 and is prepared to let him go in 2018, Belichick needs to go through the concussion protocol. You don't give up a high or even low first round pick for a back up QB for one year. You just don't.

I don't believe we have any idea what has been offered. So that kind of ends the conversation right there.

But playing along, the discussion isn't, let's say, #12 or nothing. It's #12 minus what we could get next year which would be less than #12 but more than a maybe #3 comp pick. How much more I don't know.

There's only one thing I know for sure in all of this, whether we trade him or not, however good or not he is, if you don't have a QB you have nothing and if you don't have a QB it's really difficult to get one. So there is massive insurance value in keeping him. How does that insurance value compare to the trade value ? That I can't answer not knowing what offers there are.

As for your hypotheticals (and I'm not being argumentative, I would trade him but I see the other side), 1) no GM before has had to deal with a 40 year old QB of Brady's quality to potentially replace and 2) JJ Watt quality is unlikely. Solid starter more likely.

 

[Ivan]

Gonna be a really boring draft.

 

[BelichickFan]

Gonna be a really boring draft.

We basically have a pick in every round except round 1 other than the round 2 being eight picks later.

 

[patfanken]

Keeping him gives us an insurance policy we hope to never use.

Maybe he wins #6 and retires. Or tears and ACL or suffers a bad concussion and retires. Obviously I hope not but he's about to be 40 years old, the decision making process will be different than 10 years ago.

Maybe a career ender doesn't happen but he sprains an MCL and is out 4-6 weeks mid season. Big deal to have Jimmy sitting there.

There's no end of possibilities and Jimmy prevents a single point failure at the single most important position in all of sports.

It's not about maximizing his value. It's about having a playoff caliber QB if something bad happens. I would trade him for the right price but not just because this is his max value. I'm not saying I would make him unavailable at any price but that price would be higher than high.

Here's the thing. In the end we are still trading the #12 and 52 (as an example) for an asset that will never see the field under ideal circumstances. This is especially painful given the fact we are missing an edge rusher prospect, and forfeiting the chance to pick in the top half of the first half of a draft in over a decade. Who knows when that will happen again.

My feelings are not about not wanting to have JG as the back up this year, it's about what we gain vs what we lose by not making that transaction.

 

[Ivan]

We basically have a pick in every round except round 1 other than the round 2 being eight picks later.

Don't get me wrong, I love the moves they made with those picks but having no first or second has led me to pay very little attention in the lead up to this draft. My interest in it has been waning in recent years but this year I have paid almost no attention to it.

 

[BelichickFan]

Here's the thing. In the end we are still trading the #12 and 52 (as an example) for an asset that will never see the field under ideal circumstances. This is especially painful given the fact we are missing an edge rusher prospect, and forfeiting the chance to pick in the top half of the first half of a draft in over a decade. Who knows when that will happen again.

My feelings are not about not wanting to have JG as the back up this year, it's about what we gain vs what we lose by not making that transaction.

First, using your example it would "just" be #12 and we could probably get #52 next year.

Second, I get it. If we were offered that I would make the trade, use #52 on a QB and let him compete with Brissett. But I see the other side. Trading him sounds good until Brady gets hurt. I know it's only happened once but what if it happens again ?

 

[BelichickFan]

Don't get me wrong, I love the moves they made with those picks but having no first or second has led me to pay very little attention in the lead up to this draft. My interest in it has been waning in recent years but this year I have paid almost no attention to it.

We basically have a #2, it's just eight picks later.

 

[carmelo15]

This would be great news. The team with Butler would be better than the 2016 team that just won the championship. That is a scary thought for the rest of the league.

I mean even without Butler we're better, we just added 2 pro bowl players on offense Gronk and Cooks

 

[Dexter]

Don't get me wrong, I love the moves they made with those picks but having no first or second has led me to pay very little attention in the lead up to this draft. My interest in it has been waning in recent years but this year I have paid almost no attention to it.

You can have a great draft without a first round pick, as last year showed, but also don't forget that we will have a very big undrafted free agents group, and at least one of them made the team for about 13 years in a row, if I recall correctly.

 

[long distance]

When in NFL history was a GM stupid enough to pass on the 12th overall pick to keep a back up QB just in case the starter goes down.

But what if Brady goes down and we find out that Garoppolo isn't a playoff caliber QB? Say Brady goes down with an ACL and Garoppolo plays for a large portion of the year and after teams develop a book on him, they discover that if they bump his receivers off the line and he starts to hold onto the ball too long and gets sacked a lot of pressured into making dumb decisions. That has been his weakness in his preseason play.

Say that the Pats were offered the 12th overall pick and the next JJ Watt was on the board at that spot.

If the Pats are offered a high first round pick for Garoppolo and they pass on it because he wants Garoppolo as a back up for 2017 and is prepared to let him go in 2018, Belichick needs to go through the concussion protocol. You don't give up a high or even low first round pick for a back up QB for one year. You just don't.

Here's the thing. In the end we are still trading the #12 and 52 (as an example) for an asset that will never see the field under ideal circumstances. This is especially painful given the fact we are missing an edge rusher prospect, and forfeiting the chance to pick in the top half of the first half of a draft in over a decade. Who knows when that will happen again.

My feelings are not about not wanting to have JG as the back up this year, it's about what we gain vs what we lose by not making that transaction.

Im glad we have a GM that will not risk the whole team and their effort for some draft picks.

Too much work and sacrifice by too many people went into building this amazing roster to throw it all away by going into the season without the best possible back up at the position that matters - all.

 

[deroc5050]

I definitely predicted that Butler would be on the Pats for the 2017 season. As far as Jimmy G we have been over that a couple million times.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

We basically have a #2, it's just eight picks later.

So we also have a first, just 40 picks later.

 

[CutiePie]

Jimmy G is the future

nothing will be more satisfying than watching him lift Lombardi #7

 

[patfanken]

Im glad we have a GM that will not risk the whole team and their effort for some draft picks.

Too much work and sacrifice by too many people went into building this amazing roster to throw it all away by going into the season without the best possible back up at the position that matters - all.

So basically what you are saying is that the GM, who has gone into almost every season he's led this team WITHOUT an experienced back up QB in virtually every year BB has been the HC, was an idiot. But in THIS year, suddenly it is critical that we have a top flight back up. All those other years just don't count. Clearly in those other 15 odd years it didn't matter that we have a starting quality back up QB.

Can you remind me just who that ***hole GM was?

 

[Bonzo]

I for one am glad Jimmy is here. By swapping draft picks for guys who can (presumably) contribute this year (and next) -- bolstering a roster that was good enough to win a SB -- I am comforted by the idea that not even a season-ending injury to our GOAT QB will be enough to spoil these investments and derail the 2017 campaign.

Also: Belichick may well like the way Brady performs with a bit of added pressure.

 

[supafly]

So basically what you are saying is that the GM, who has gone into almost every season he's led this team WITHOUT an experienced back up QB in virtually every year BB has been the HC, was an idiot. But in THIS year, suddenly it is critical that we have a top flight back up. All those other years just don't count. Clearly in those other 15 odd years it didn't matter that we have a starting quality back up QB.

Can you remind me just who that ***hole GM was?

We have no idea as to what the coaching staff feels in regards to the possibility of Brissett being the main backup. He may need another year. There may have been some examples where Belichick gambled with a backup who wasn't as knowledgeable in our system, (not as many as you suggest, in my opinion) but Tom Brady wasn't 40 years old, either.

I think we should just trust Bill Belichick's read on the situation. If the market is anywhere near as hot as mediots and posters sugggest, there should be some interest next spring, as well. Obviously, his trade value is likely at its highest right now (fingers crossed), but that doesn't necessarily mean that he'll be given away for a sack of potatoes next March, either.

 

[Thelonious]

The Pats are in a can't-lose position in both situations. In both, we get either a really good player in a critical position or a hefty little pile of draft picks. In all the squabbling over what to do, I think the board has too often overlooked that BB's management of the roster has put us - again, in both situations - in a win-win spot.

 

[PatriotDynasty99]

I just go back to this: how long will Belichick be here? Could Brady outlast the head coach?

I assume Brady still has two years of being elite as ever and two more years of still being a very good QB with a slight dip. That's 4 years of Brady. JG will not be here if Brady is still the QB. Why not maximize Brady's 4 years, but also Belichick's as well? BB is 65 right now. I don't see him coaching much beyond 69.

Also, people act like losing JG means you won't have a backup QB capable of winning the Super Bowl if Brady were to get hurt. A solid vet QB like Ryan Fitzpatrick (who's available and I'm guessing would jump at the chance to join the Pats) would be very capable with this roster. You can still WIN with someone else other than JG.

Take the draft picks, cash in, load up on defense (pass rusher, linebacker, safety), and try to win the next 4 Super Bowls.

Call me crazy, but I'm still holding out hope that they will trade JG. This would also allow you to select Butler's replacement for next year.

Keep Butler? Yes, because you want to have the best team possible. Trade JG? Yes, because you want to have the best team possible.

 

[supafly]

A solid vet QB like Ryan Fitzpatrick (who's available and I'm guessing would jump at the chance to join the Pats) would be very capable with this roster. You can still WIN with someone else other than JG.

While this seems to be a popular thought for some, I'm not sure why we should believe that a guy we've all made fun of for years is suddenly going to be the answer. Fitzpatrick seems to have developed terrible habits in terms of bad reads and giving the ball to the opposition.

To take it one step further, it's a complex system, and while you may have a point that an outsider could potentially be an improvement over Brissett's second year studying our playbook (who knows?), we'd still be running a limited system either way. I think you make a fair point by bringing up the possibility, but I don't think we'd be quite as successful as some may feel. Just my opinion.

 

[slash83]

Unless Brady can sustain awesomeness for the next 3-4 years I would rather JG be traded. MB staying is great, never wanted to trade him.