Brady, Brees, Manning

[DarrylS]

40s-50s - Graham
60s - Start
70s - Staubach
80s - Montana
90s - Favre
00s-10s - Brady

.

Much more logical way to look at this, Mahomes is good, but after 20 starts putting him in the conversation with the best of all time is premature.. he may be and right now he looks like the heir apparent to #12, but injuries and studying his tendencies may take a toll..

Wait and see how he stands up to the rigors of the NFL and adapting NFL DC's....

 

[aluminum seats]

One of my main statistical goals for 2019 is to see Eli fall below .500 for his career. (he is 116-115 at the moment) How someone in this era with a career QB rating around 84 is considered a likely HOFer still baffles me.

It’s nutty....I guess it’s the NY bias and multiple Super Bowls. So if Trent Dilfer had lucked into another one he’d be a Hall of Famer too.

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

1. Manning
2. Rodgers*
3. Brees

*The moment Patrick Mahomes becomes eligible for career efficiency stats, Aaron Rodgers drops to #3 here and about 10 slots on the all-time rankings list. That’s the steep price you pay for spending your career dedicated to your QB rating instead of winning games.

As long as mahomes doesn’t try his no look concept while crossing a street....

 

[fightingirish595]

Manning and Brees do not make my top 5 QBs all time let alone top 5 NFL players all time.

Everyone has their method but I believe you can’t compare well across eras so you pick the best if each era to start then do your best to sort between them.

40s-50s - Graham
60s - Start
70s - Staubach
80s - Montana
90s - Favre
00s-10s - Brady

My ranking:

1. Brady
2. Montana
3. Staubach
4. Graham
5. Starr
6. Favre

So naturally Manning and Brees would sit outside that, let alone Rodgers. Why would being the 2nd or 3rd best QB in an era be better than any of these others who dominated the position at their time. This adjusts for rules changes and evolution of the game.

Let me put it another way. Who was the 2nd best QB during 40s-50s? Oh wait, noone cares. Who was 2nd best QB during 60s? Noone cares. 70s? Some might start mentioning Unitas’ sterling career but memories are fading. 80s? Now it’s getting more recent and people will mention Marino but noone is saying Marino as top 5 alltime like they did then. 90s? More recent and you’ll see mention of Elway or Young but not really.

Similarly now with Manning and Brees. We’ve got recency bias. Manning’s memory will become like Marino or Unitas and eventually fade from that as well. Decades from now people will only remember that Tom dominated this era and they will only compare him to those who dominated other eras, like maybe Mahomes during 20s etc.

I disagree very much with favre over Manning and unitas

 

[Wordsmyth]

Tourch!

Too soon?

 

[TinhWoodhead]

As long as mahomes doesn’t try his no look concept while crossing a street....

frog roadkill

 

[Nikolai]

This really reminds me that I need to update and finish my analytical thingy.

I compared across eras by analyzing each player against their contemporaries and then normalizing all the results to the current season. Brady looks remarkably good, even statistically. I'd like to start really digging one day and do the outdoors/dome/weather comparisons, but that would take a lot of time and all of this pays way way less than my day job.

 

[Soliel]

Bree’s is a sawed off, little prick
Manning is a dope head who couldn’t last

Brady is the goat

 

[PlainOldEd]

Many of us have been saying this for years.

The stats contest is actually not even close.

So Shannon Sharpe has been wrong for ages when he yammers on about stats.

On that last sentence I'd say you could remove the "about stats"...

 

[Zarozzor]

This really reminds me that I need to update and finish my analytical thingy.

I compared across eras by analyzing each player against their contemporaries and then normalizing all the results to the current season. Brady looks remarkably good, even statistically. I'd like to start really digging one day and do the outdoors/dome/weather comparisons, but that would take a lot of time and all of this pays way way less than my day job.

I’d be very interested in seeing your formula/list

 

[Tb12goesinya]

You're right it absolutely is unfair to compare players from different eras.

As far as top 5 players vs 5 top QBs it depends what scope you look through.. If we are comparing players amongst their positions and how they dominate then certainly Lawrence Taylor and Jerry Rice are right near the top of the list..

..but if you look at a ranking of most valuable football players throughout history then you can make a case the top 10 is all QBs. I am from the camp that believes in this day in age a QB is the most valuable player every single season..but I digress on that point

So the way I rank all time QBs(which is not quite fair) is that this era of QB has more on their plate and thus would simply be a better QB in the narrow way I look at it.

1. Brady
2. Manning
3. Brees
4. Montana
5. Rodgers

Manning and Brees do not make my top 5 QBs all time let alone top 5 NFL players all time.

Everyone has their method but I believe you can’t compare well across eras so you pick the best if each era to start then do your best to sort between them.

40s-50s - Graham
60s - Start
70s - Staubach
80s - Montana
90s - Favre
00s-10s - Brady

My ranking:

1. Brady
2. Montana
3. Staubach
4. Graham
5. Starr
6. Favre

So naturally Manning and Brees would sit outside that, let alone Rodgers. Why would being the 2nd or 3rd best QB in an era be better than any of these others who dominated the position at their time. This adjusts for rules changes and evolution of the game.

Let me put it another way. Who was the 2nd best QB during 40s-50s? Oh wait, noone cares. Who was 2nd best QB during 60s? Noone cares. 70s? Some might start mentioning Unitas’ sterling career but memories are fading. 80s? Now it’s getting more recent and people will mention Marino but noone is saying Marino as top 5 alltime like they did then. 90s? More recent and you’ll see mention of Elway or Young but not really.

Similarly now with Manning and Brees. We’ve got recency bias. Manning’s memory will become like Marino or Unitas and eventually fade from that as well. Decades from now people will only remember that Tom dominated this era and they will only compare him to those who dominated other eras, like maybe Mahomes during 20s etc.

 

[Tb12goesinya]

Right on, until the last sentence. Now you’re back to fantasy football again.

What Peyton did before the snap at the line of scrimmage in the early 2000s revolutionized the position and the game. He is an absolute legend.

Brady does is better though. Brady just completely owns the field with a composed demeanor, very cerebral 'in the moment' laser focus. Manning had a slight jitterness at times(not necessarily in a bad way). But Brady's composure is truly what catapults him way to the top.

What Brees does pre snap(and post snap) puts him easily into top 5 QB in my eyes.

Side note..

Rivers gets a big honorable mention for me. That man pours it all on the field, mind and body. He guts it out like the best of them and put his teams in games when early on I say to myself "no way they are pulling this one out"

 

[Zarozzor]

Manning and Brees do not make my top 5 QBs all time let alone top 5 NFL players all time.

Everyone has their method but I believe you can’t compare well across eras so you pick the best if each era to start then do your best to sort between them.

40s-50s - Graham
60s - Start
70s - Staubach
80s - Montana
90s - Favre
00s-10s - Brady

My ranking:

1. Brady
2. Montana
3. Staubach
4. Graham
5. Starr
6. Favre

So naturally Manning and Brees would sit outside that, let alone Rodgers. Why would being the 2nd or 3rd best QB in an era be better than any of these others who dominated the position at their time. This adjusts for rules changes and evolution of the game.

Let me put it another way. Who was the 2nd best QB during 40s-50s? Oh wait, noone cares. Who was 2nd best QB during 60s? Noone cares. 70s? Some might start mentioning Unitas’ sterling career but memories are fading. 80s? Now it’s getting more recent and people will mention Marino but noone is saying Marino as top 5 alltime like they did then. 90s? More recent and you’ll see mention of Elway or Young but not really.

Similarly now with Manning and Brees. We’ve got recency bias. Manning’s memory will become like Marino or Unitas and eventually fade from that as well. Decades from now people will only remember that Tom dominated this era and they will only compare him to those who dominated other eras, like maybe Mahomes during 20s etc.

Very interesting method!

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

What Peyton did before the snap at the line of scrimmage in the early 2000s revolutionized the position and the game. He is an absolute legend.

Brady does is better though. Brady just completely owns the field with a composed demeanor, very cerebral 'in the moment' laser focus. Manning had a slight jitterness at times(not necessarily in a bad way). But Brady's composure is truly what catapults him way to the top.

What Brees does pre snap(and post snap) puts him easily into top 5 QB in my eyes.

Side note..

Rivers gets a big honorable mention for me. That man pours it all on the field, mind and body. He guts it out like the best of them and put his teams in games when early on I say to myself "no way they are pulling this one out"

QBs have acted as ancillary offensive coordinators since professional football started. Quarterbacks as far back as the 1950s and 1960s were changing the plays, calling their own plays, etc. and have been responsible for leading the film study and strategic path against opponents. Jim Kelly ran the no-huddle while at Buffalo while Manning was entering the NFL. Manning’s offensive concept was actually extremely simple, and during the times in his career where a more complex scheme was needed (rare times a player was injured, with a new offense Denver in 2012), he struggled.

One-Trick Pony

The media narrative sure was strong about Mr. Line of Scrimmage, but facts don’t support it.

 

[Nikolai]

I’d be very interested in seeing your formula/list

I definitely need to update it. It's only current through the 2017 season (so no Mahomes, etc).

I don't know what to do with Otta Graham and Sammy Baugh, two guys who were so ahead of their competition that it's off the charts. Post Super Bowl era, Brady and Manning are almost at a dead heat through the 2016 season.

ADJUSTED CAREER STATS TO 2017 Normalization:
Brady: 100.5
Manning: 101.5

The biggest thing is putting it in a palatable format. I make cool Excel things, but the QB stuff is the electronic version of this right now...

EDIT: Added Brady/Manning comparison

 

[upstater1]

You're right it absolutely is unfair to compare players from different eras.

As far as top 5 players vs 5 top QBs it depends what scope you look through.. If we are comparing players amongst their positions and how they dominate then certainly Lawrence Taylor and Jerry Rice are right near the top of the list..

..but if you look at a ranking of most valuable football players throughout history then you can make a case the top 10 is all QBs. I am from the camp that believes in this day in age a QB is the most valuable player every single season..but I digress on that point

So the way I rank all time QBs(which is not quite fair) is that this era of QB has more on their plate and thus would simply be a better QB in the narrow way I look at it.

1. Brady
2. Manning
3. Brees
4. Montana
5. Rodgers

I'd rather have Marino than Manning, Brees and Rodgers.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

You're right it absolutely is unfair to compare players from different eras.

As far as top 5 players vs 5 top QBs it depends what scope you look through.. If we are comparing players amongst their positions and how they dominate then certainly Lawrence Taylor and Jerry Rice are right near the top of the list..

..but if you look at a ranking of most valuable football players throughout history then you can make a case the top 10 is all QBs. I am from the camp that believes in this day in age a QB is the most valuable player every single season..but I digress on that point

So the way I rank all time QBs(which is not quite fair) is that this era of QB has more on their plate and thus would simply be a better QB in the narrow way I look at it.

1. Brady
2. Manning
3. Brees
4. Montana
5. Rodgers

Quarterbacks are progressively getting better (see recent QB rating spike.). Your criteria will ultimately lead to every contemporary QB getting leapfrogged by the next generation’s best QBs. That’s why championships and postseason success are the ultimate equalizer. Stats are always getting better, and eventually people will look at Tom Brady and chuckle that his QB rating is below 100.

How can you really rank Manning over Montana? Do you have any idea how much better Montana was in big games? He also led the NFL in passer rating when he retired.

 

[jri37]

Brady -6
Manning/Brees -3

oh and the plays made in crunch time and the eye test not even as close as the 6 to 3.

There is no QB as physically/mentally tough and clutch than Brady. The only QB's in my lifetime I would even compare him to with those intangibles is Roger Staubach and Joe Montana.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I like the stats but don’t see a big difference in the percentages. All 3 were great whether it be indoors or outdoors. Great is great I guess.

Brady is the best because of all his accomplishments and clutch performances which in the end is what separates the 3. All hall of famers in my book.

 

[Seels]

It is fun to look at the numbers but I don't know if this even needs to be brought in the context of how it reflects on Brady.

Brees vs Manning is a very fun conversation to have. Both have areas over the other you can point to. Personally at this point while I have certain reservations about Brees compared to Manning, Brees is the playoffs has been miles better and that should give him the nod over Manning all time I think.

Brees v Manning isn't even close and never will be. Manning is at worst the third best quarterback ever. A guy with 1 SB, 1 all pro, and 0 MVP isn't close.