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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by ivanvamp, Sep 12, 2019.

  1. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp In the Starting Line-Up

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    Michael Hurley tweets:

    This is really crazy, if Pro Football Reference's indoor/outdoor split is accurate.

    Percentage of games played in dome/retractable roof:
    Brees: 52.7%
    Manning: 48.9%
    Brady: 8.2%


    So ok interesting topic. Here are their career passer ratings in domes, outdoors, and in retroroof stadiums (I think these are regular season only):

    Dome
    - Brady: 14 g, 109.0 rating
    - Brees: 128 g, 104.2 rating
    - Manning: 92 g, 99.1 rating

    Outdoors
    - Brady: 247 g, 96.9 rating
    - Brees: 125 g, 91.2 rating
    - Manning: 136 g, 94.0 rating

    Retroof
    - Brady: 8 g, 100.4 rating
    - Brees: 11 g, 89.9 rating
    - Manning: 38 g, 99.2 rating

    OVERALL
    - Brady: 270 g, 97.7 rating
    - Brees: 265 g, 97.7 rating
    - Manning: 266 g, 96.5 rating

    So even though the overall passer ratings are very very close, Brady is substantially better than either of them in every conceivable field situation. The only reason it's close at all is because the other two have played so many more games in domes.
     
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  2. Bleedthrough

    Bleedthrough On the Game Day Roster

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  3. upstater1

    upstater1 Pro Bowl Player

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    Many of us have been saying this for years.

    The stats contest is actually not even close.

    So Shannon Sharpe has been wrong for ages when he yammers on about stats.
     
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  4. turkeyneck

    turkeyneck In the Starting Line-Up

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    How is it that Brady's rating is higher than Brees' for Dome, Outdoor and Retroof but they are tied for Overall?


    Edit [after answered]: I was asking for a friend...:oops: :rolleyes:
     
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    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  5. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp In the Starting Line-Up

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    Not being snarky here, but do you want to think about it a little first, or do you want me to just explain it? If you don't get it, when you're told the answer you'll smack your forehead in an "I can't believe I didn't see that" sort of way.
     
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  6. QuantumMechanic

    QuantumMechanic Burn it all down! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Simpson's Paradox, probably.

    Simpson's paradox - Wikipedia

    In particular, scroll down to the "Batting Averages" heading, where there's an example of where David Justice had a higher batting average than Derek Jeter in 1995 and in 1996, but Jeter had the higher average for the two years combined.
     
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  7. Hyped

    Hyped PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It is weighted by the # of games played. Brees played a hell a lot more games under a dome with a 104 rating vs. Brady playing 8 games with a 109 rating.
     
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  8. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Better one:

    Dome Gnome
     
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  9. ALP

    ALP Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    because of the weight each of them has, so you can't just take the average of the three categories, need to take each category and multiply it by (number of games either in dome/roof/outside)/(total games)
     
  10. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Percentage of passes thrown in dome behind the line of scrimmage (running plays that count as passing yards):

    Drew Brees - 83.47%
    Everyone else - A couple of passes per game
     
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  11. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes! This is the exact example I use to explain the concept of Simpson's Paradox.
     
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  12. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So it's like, if the glove don't fit, you must acquit.
     
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  13. NormZauchin

    NormZauchin PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And these numbers don't account for the weather conditions. Brees started his career in San Diego and both he and Manning played a majority of their seasons in the southern divisions of their respective conferences where even the outdoor stadiums had less inclement weather. I'd like to see the numbers for games played with the temperature below 40 degrees or games played with the wind over 15 MPH.
     
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  14. BobDigital

    BobDigital Pro Bowl Player

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    It is fun to look at the numbers but I don't know if this even needs to be brought in the context of how it reflects on Brady.

    Brees vs Manning is a very fun conversation to have. Both have areas over the other you can point to. Personally at this point while I have certain reservations about Brees compared to Manning, Brees is the playoffs has been miles better and that should give him the nod over Manning all time I think.
     
  15. Fixit

    Fixit Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Not to be Captain Obvious here, but every game Brady played in a dome was a road game, the others were at home 80+% of the time.

    So Brady's pretty good.
     
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  16. Flash

    Flash Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Brady shouldn't even be in the discussion with Brees and Manning. He has outgrown those after his Falcons Super Bowl win.

    A far more interesting topic would be Brees vs. Manning vs. Rodgers, the three best QBs after Brady in the 21st century. I'd go Rodgers > Manning = Brees when it's all said and done.
     
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  17. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1. Manning
    2. Rodgers*
    3. Brees

    *The moment Patrick Mahomes becomes eligible for career efficiency stats, Aaron Rodgers drops to #3 here and about 10 slots on the all-time rankings list. That’s the steep price you pay for spending your career dedicated to your QB rating instead of winning games.
     
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  18. Doctor DDS

    Doctor DDS On the Game Day Roster

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    With the massive change in QB ratings and volume stats the last few years all of these numbers will eventually look fairly pedestrian (just like Marino's do) but the wins and championships will stand the test of time.

    One of my main statistical goals for 2019 is to see Eli fall below .500 for his career. (he is 116-115 at the moment) How someone in this era with a career QB rating around 84 is considered a likely HOFer still baffles me.
     
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  19. Soliel

    Soliel PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He’s fresh out of HGH
     
  20. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So, given that the other #12 plays in the frozen tundra of Green Bay I'd say he is a good comp for Brady.

    Rodgers:
    Dome - 26 g, 109 rating
    Outdoors - 134 g, 101.6 rating
    Retroof - 5 g, 113.9 rating

    OVERALL - 166 g, 103.1 rating
     
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    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019

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