Pats @ Texans, all-22 rewatch thread

[PP2]

Why would you assume there would be a LB on Burkhead and not another DB ?

Let's say the other team maxes out with dime coverage on a crucial 3rd down, and put two on Edelman (he will smoke any single coverage), one on Meyers, one on Dorsett, one on Sanu, and one on White.

Who accounts for Burkhead? It would have to be a LB. Very few teams can put out a quality quarters coverage (7 DBs).

 

[Sicilian]

Let's say the other team maxes out with dime coverage on a crucial 3rd down, and put two on Edelman (he will smoke any single coverage), one on Meyers, one on Dorsett, one on Sanu, and one on White.

Who accounts for Burkhead? It would have to be a LB. Very few teams can put out a quality quarters coverage (7 DBs).

In the scenario you've laid out, Burkhead is on the bench. Unless you're playing one of those players at QB

 

[PP2]

In the scenario you've laid out, Burkhead is on the bench. Unless you're playing one of those players at QB

Well, that will teach me to type before taking my morning coffee. Looks like I just outsmarted myself. Back to the drawing board.

 

[luuked]

Let's say the other team maxes out with dime coverage on a crucial 3rd down, and put two on Edelman (he will smoke any single coverage), one on Meyers, one on Dorsett, one on Sanu, and one on White.

Who accounts for Burkhead? It would have to be a LB. Very few teams can put out a quality quarters coverage (7 DBs).

The numbers not working out not withstanding. I think generally speaking -- ignoring specific matchups against particular teams -- you can get better matchups with 11 personnel (even more so with 12) because with a TE on the field the running threat is more of a concern than with White/Burkhead.

Also you have one more blocker (that can still release late) if you wanna work some slower developing stuff.

Either way I hope they try some White/Burkhead plays out and maybe find that they can run out if it consistently. That would solve a lot of issues.

 

[Vindicate]

Would be great to get some summary posts by either @luuked or @PP2 as we head into the weekend that gives us an idea of what was going on this game. Areas you guys might think we will improve, how much media narratives ring true (offensive position players suck, can't get open, etc., and if the tape confirms that), what seemed to be the game plan and why it didn't work, and other summary-esque things that would fit. Equipped with gifs/vids if necessary. Love what you guys bring but it's a lot to comb through sometimes lol!

 

[PP2]

Would be great to get some summary posts by either @luuked or @PP2 as we head into the weekend that gives us an idea of what was going on this game. Areas you guys might think we will improve, how much media narratives ring true (offensive position players suck, can't get open, etc., and if the tape confirms that), what seemed to be the game plan and why it didn't work, and other summary-esque things that would fit. Equipped with gifs/vids if necessary. Love what you guys bring but it's a lot to comb through sometimes lol!

Your answer in one word: execution.

 

[Vindicate]

Your answer in one word: execution.

Well, that's succinct lol. I'll take your word for it.

 

[PP2]

Well, that's succinct lol. I'll take your word for it.

 

[luuked]

Was about to post just that as a response. Chatham as usual with the Winner.

 

[woolster22]

Harry felt the pressure trying to come over the top and unfortunately failed in his box out attempt. Fixable. Kids a rookie and these kinds of things should be expected and used to teach.

It is inexcusable that we didn't throw him out there for RZ targets given his skill set, and the ability to dictate matchups given the doubling of JE.

 

[PP2]

Harry felt the pressure trying to come over the top and unfortunately failed in his box out attempt. Fixable. Kids a rookie and these kinds of things should be expected and used to teach.

It is inexcusable that we didn't throw him out there for RZ targets given his skill set, and the ability to dictate matchups given the doubling of JE.

These are all things that should have been taught and fixed in the early part of this season.

Unfortunately, Harry is just getting started at a time when football is very critical. In the words of BB "Real football starts after Thanksgiving."

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Harry felt the pressure trying to come over the top and unfortunately failed in his box out attempt. Fixable. Kids a rookie and these kinds of things should be expected and used to teach.

It is inexcusable that we didn't throw him out there for RZ targets given his skill set, and the ability to dictate matchups given the doubling of JE.

I guess Brady could have gotten out of that play but hardly a head scratcher. Well designed play w extra blocking to protect the rollout. Meyers & Harry both **** the bed when it comes to r/r. Both had trouble at the top of their routes. Rounding off, not decisive or physical enough at the top will get those results on a lot of plays.

 

[SVN]

I read this yesterday somewhere - Gronk first 3 games of his career - 5 catches. And people suddenly people expect harry to be jerry rice .

 

[Deus Irae]

I don’t disagree that the team **** the bed at that position again this year. I’ve been hammering that nail for a while now. But they did and their options are extremely limited at the receiver position now. Hell, they’re so limited that they couldn’t even bench Harry for the rest of the game after that. He got around 10 snaps IIRC. This is where they are and they were already getting their asses kicked on the road. I don’t seem the harm in giving it a shot. Especially if you’re close to the 50 with this defense. The potential negatives don’t outweigh the potential positives enough for me to give the idea a thumbs down.

Phil Perry was just talking about Harry, his snaps, and his routes. According to him, the Patriots had started Harry off with a very limited route tree in his first game. They then ramped it up quite a bit in game two, only to scale it way back in game three.

I think that tells us that the team realized Harry wasn't ready. So why would you force things to the player at that point? There is nothing positive about doing that to a guy who's in game 3 and has a head that's swimming.

What you do in a situation like that is you pull back, and live to fight another day.

 

[Kontradiction]

Phil Perry was just talking about Harry, his snaps, and his routes. According to him, the Patriots had started Harry off with a very limited route tree in his first game. They then ramped it up quite a bit in game two, only to scale it way back in game three.

I think that tells us that the team realized Harry wasn't ready. So why would you force things to the player at that point? There is nothing positive about doing that to a guy who's in game 3 and has a head that's swimming.

What you do in a situation like that is you pull back, and live to fight another day.

There’s not as much precision on go routes and deep posts and he was being singled. At that point in the game, why not? What else do you have going for you? The kid is supposed to be able to high point the ball. At worst, it’s the equivalent of a punt. At best, he comes down with it, puts the team in position, and effectively takes the Texans out of Cover-1 and forces them to drop another safety deep (thereby helping Edelman). Most likely scenario is that it hits the ground and the team is still in the same position. The cons don’t outweigh the pros badly enough to not try it.

Do you have a link or did Perry go over what kind of routes they’re easing him in with? I saw him run deep posts against the Eagles so I’d assume that route would be one of them.

 

[Deus Irae]

There’s not as much precision on go routes and deep posts and he was being singled. At that point in the game, why not?

Because he wasn't ready, and had demonstrated it.

What else do you have going for you? The kid is supposed to be able to high point the ball. At worst, it’s the equivalent of a punt. At best, he comes down with it, puts the team in position, and effectively takes the Texans out of Cover-1 and forces them to drop another safety deep (thereby helping Edelman). Most likely scenario is that it hits the ground and the team is still in the same position. The cons don’t outweigh the pros badly enough to not try it.

The kid is also supposed to be able to out muscle smaller players, but showed he was not ready for that. Even the guy's best attribute was not yet ready for the NFL. So the cons obviously outweighed the pros. It's not even a close call. Now we hope that he learned from the experience and comes more prepared for NFL defenders' guile, speed, and power this week. But pissing away the game by forcing him the ball last week wouldn't have done anything except needlessly damage the kid's confidence and Brady's trust in the kid moving forward.

Do you have a link or did Perry go over what kind of routes they’re easing him in with? I saw him run deep posts against the Eagles so I’d assume that route would be one of them.

He said it on the radio earlier, and said it would be something he wrote/published later on in the day.

 

[captain stone]

Brady used Edleman as an indicator but that also cleared out the underneath since the LB was watching 11. Meyers cleared out some space on his route.

Harry would have had a decent amount of green in front of him if he made that play.

So would've Meyers if Brady had thrown to him...as he should have.

 

[woolster22]

These are all things that should have been taught and fixed in the early part of this season.

Unfortunately, Harry is just getting started at a time when football is very critical. In the words of BB "Real football starts after Thanksgiving."

This would further my point. Pull the majority of "his gameplan" contributions, but at least give him opportunities, albeit brief and maybe have a coach watching him like a hawk to see if fundamentals are being heeded.

I'd imagine the kid is pressing. That catch in Dallas...cmon man. You can't tell a young kid battling injuries not to dwell on mistakes when you literally bench his ass for them. If he doesn't get it now, what the hell are we to expect if he's necessitated by injury in the play-offs?

I'm no route tree expert. I don't know how egregious the failed box out is either. Seems like a reasonable reaction from my seat, although the mantra "come back to the ball" keeps repeating in my head. Has this kind of stuff been an issue in his limited pro tape?

I guess Brady could have gotten out of that play but hardly a head scratcher. Well designed play w extra blocking to protect the rollout. Meyers & Harry both **** the bed when it comes to r/r. Both had trouble at the top of their routes. Rounding off, not decisive or physical enough at the top will get those results on a lot of plays.

Rolling Brady out by design is a head scratcher to me. Why cut down an already crowded RZ?

Did Meyer's have a bad game r/r? I was under the impression this was one of his strengths, to go with great ball tracking and hands. He had a couple great adjustments (maybe due to poor r/r) and grabs in that wind game.

It's not like this is the first time we've discussed WRs fitting being the issue on this board. There is no reason not to be able to figure out something given the skills these guys have. This isnt Reche Caldwell level simple lack of talent. Great hands have been on display when connections are made. Maybe its the road atmosphere? The oline played well enough, despite Cannon getting knicked. They had a few "wtf was that moments," but it wasn't like previous games where I was worried Josh was going to get Brady killed before they committed to helping Newhouse. The run game style that was having success as well as opening up the middle for play action was inexplicably abandoned on a road trip with a sick defense for gun empty/1back sets.

I swear McDaniels hates the run game like Buddy Ryan hated offenses. Or maybe he's tired of hearing about how Bills d is carrying his offense and wanted to play kid hero. Despite the miles given up on the ground by that defense the last few weeks, Josh willingly opted for typically less effective running formations and willingly started trying to throw it around the yard like its 07 all over again. In the first and second quarters, the only times we had any success was in the "heavier" set w/ Sony on the field.

At i believe the end of the first quarter(maybe the possession before 2 minute warning?), as he's being subbed out after a decent gain on 1st, he gets run off for a smaller wr package. The camera followed him to the sideline and you can see him shrug his arms and say something to friar (iirc, rb coach) that seemed like a "wtf, can I get a rythm" move if I've ever seen one. I would strongly agree if this was the case.

The TEs are bad. Watson has been ok, but the kids suck.

The WRs apparently don't give a damn (dorsett), and whatever you want to explain as the rookie's issues.

And McDaniels is running out personnel like its a runway show, while abondoning the set he felt strongly enough about to open the game in after having all week to think about it, and was the only real effective attack until garbage time when the defense had already started planning the nights party.

It's like McDaniel's panics when things don't go great, and after that his default is rainmanning 4WR plays into the head set.

While refusing to let the only physical mismatch he has see the field after an early mistake in essentially his last preseason game.

 

[captain stone]

Speaking of Skippy's head-scratchers: Burkhead pops off a 10-yard run, then isn't used for the rest of the possession, one which resulted in zero points, but during it White is given two Consecutive runs for a total of...3 yards. Personnel Mis-Management 101.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

This would further my point. Pull the majority of "his gameplan" contributions, but at least give him opportunities, albeit brief and maybe have a coach watching him like a hawk to see if fundamentals are being heeded.

I'd imagine the kid is pressing. That catch in Dallas...cmon man. You can't tell a young kid battling injuries not to dwell on mistakes when you literally bench his ass for them. If he doesn't get it now, what the hell are we to expect if he's necessitated by injury in the play-offs?

I'm no route tree expert. I don't know how egregious the failed box out is either. Seems like a reasonable reaction from my seat, although the mantra "come back to the ball" keeps repeating in my head. Has this kind of stuff been an issue in his limited pro tape?



Rolling Brady out by design is a head scratcher to me. Why cut down an already crowded RZ?

Did Meyer's have a bad game r/r? I was under the impression this was one of his strengths, to go with great ball tracking and hands. He had a couple great adjustments (maybe due to poor r/r) and grabs in that wind game.

It's not like this is the first time we've discussed WRs fitting being the issue on this board. There is no reason not to be able to figure out something given the skills these guys have. This isnt Reche Caldwell level simple lack of talent. Great hands have been on display when connections are made. Maybe its the road atmosphere? The oline played well enough, despite Cannon getting knicked. They had a few "wtf was that moments," but it wasn't like previous games where I was worried Josh was going to get Brady killed before they committed to helping Newhouse. The run game style that was having success as well as opening up the middle for play action was inexplicably abandoned on a road trip with a sick defense for gun empty/1back sets.

I swear McDaniels hates the run game like Buddy Ryan hated offenses. Or maybe he's tired of hearing about how Bills d is carrying his offense and wanted to play kid hero. Despite the miles given up on the ground by that defense the last few weeks, Josh willingly opted for typically less effective running formations and willingly started trying to throw it around the yard like its 07 all over again. In the first and second quarters, the only times we had any success was in the "heavier" set w/ Sony on the field.

At i believe the end of the first quarter(maybe the possession before 2 minute warning?), as he's being subbed out after a decent gain on 1st, he gets run off for a smaller wr package. The camera followed him to the sideline and you can see him shrug his arms and say something to friar (iirc, rb coach) that seemed like a "wtf, can I get a rythm" move if I've ever seen one. I would strongly agree if this was the case.

The TEs are bad. Watson has been ok, but the kids suck.

The WRs apparently don't give a damn (dorsett), and whatever you want to explain as the rookie's issues.

And McDaniels is running out personnel like its a runway show, while abondoning the set he felt strongly enough about to open the game in after having all week to think about it, and was the only real effective attack until garbage time when the defense had already started planning the nights party.

It's like McDaniel's panics when things don't go great, and after that his default is rainmanning 4WR plays into the head set.

While refusing to let the only physical mismatch he has see the field after an early mistake in essentially his last preseason game.

Idk we've seen it before & it was run right. I mean Meyers puts up 6 if he goes from A-B & not spell out the alphabet in his route.

I'd be furious if I was Brady too. INT & missed TD bc WRs are running sloppy routes. This is the NFL, mistakes will absolutely happen & you've got to roll w it but those were hs mistakes they deserved getting chewed out for.