KC @ Pats all-22 rewatch thread

[PP2]

 

[PP2]

 

[dustcover]

After watching the replay, 2 plays in the game stood out to me.

My observation is that with 12:25 in the 3rd Q on the 5 yard line with 3rd and goal to go, both Tackles failed miserably to block their man adequately to allow Brady to spot the receiver to his right who was open at the 1 yard line. Brady sacked

And on the final play, Wynn totally missed his block allowing the opposing DE to blow by him while no one picked up the defensive safety, Sorenson, blitzing from the right. Brady was thus unable to step into his throw causing him to loft a throw off his back foot while falling backwards. If he had but a second or two more, undoubtedly he could have put a bit more zip into the throw and thrown it lower and more to the outside where Edelman more often than not comes up with the catch.

 

[venecol]

Can we clone Thuney?

 

[PP2]

Rare analysis from Scott Zolak:



From now on, if a lineman or TE lets a rusher blow by them, that's going to be called a:

Cold Bird Whiff

 

[patsinthesnow]

Let me know if I am too hot takey here. Atleast it will be supported with evidence. Now for almost every 3rd & 4th down on offense:

Opening drive - 3rd & 7 DPI 1



Shaq Mason beat by Chris Jones within 2 seconds. A play where legitimately nobody is open. Sanu DPI.

Opening drive - 3rd & 6 DPI 2



5 man rush. Wynn beat badly by Clark. Brady has to get rid of the ball in less than 2 seconds. Dorsett gets DPI.

1Q 3rd & 11



Shaq Mason beaten badly by Chris Jones. Brady with less than 2 seconds again. It can be debated if he should still be able to get the ball to Rex for a chance at a FG or 4 down territory. Pass protection breakdown costs points.

Next two 3rd downs were 3rd & 1 conversions on the ground (Michel & Tom)

1Q 3rd & 3



Play action. No separation from primary read Watson. Lacosse is open. Brady evades two rushers but then throws incomplete to Watson.

2Q 3rd & 7



Pass protection holds up. Meyers drops a first down.

2Q 4th & 7



Chiefs 6 man rush. Brady misses Edelman.

2Q 3rd & 10



Both tackles are matadors within two seconds. Brady doesn't initially check down as it wouldn't be enough for a first. Brady evades both rushers but Mason & Ferentz still screw up forcing the incomplete pass.

2Q 3rd & 9



13 seconds left end of half. Mason again. Brady evades somehow



He has a clean pocket now. Instead of resetting & throwing to a wide open Meyers he forces the checkdown to White

Mason ruins the initial play & then Tom maybe spooked by the OL doesn't reset. Would Folk make a 52-55 yard FG anyway probably not lol.

3Q 3rd & 5



OL is destroyed vs. a 5 man rush. Edelman beats the double team & has the potential for a huge play with no safeties in position. Brady sacked.

4Q 3rd & 3



Pass protection is great. Two players are open - Meyers up the seam & Bolden smoked his guy on the right. Meyers drops the ball but gets DPI but Bolden may have had a TD

4Q 3rd & 5



Cannon is driven back. Nobody really open resulting in a sack.

4Q 3rd & 12



Great disguise on the 4 man rush by the Chiefs. Jones smokes Ferentz & Mason doesn't help. Brady evades but Watson isn't open near the first down marker.

4Q 3rd & 6



6 man rush & protection holds up. One of the worst routes from Dorsett. He's 1 on 1 in the slot with off coverage.

4Q 4th & 6



Great protection. Chiefs double team three players. Tom runs for a first.

4Q 3rd & 12



Chiefs 6 man rush. Maybe a better throw gets Edelman a better chance at yards.

4Q 4th & 3



Chiefs engage eight. While Meyers is open Edelman has position & is the right player to go to here. Great coverage by Breeland.

• 16 3rd & 4th down passing situations (removing the two 3rd & 1s)
• four first downs - 3 DPIs & a QB scramble
• 12 failed conversions with two sacks

Just a mess. The OL isn't holding up, the QB isn't playing up to his level & the WRs other than Edelman have problems:

• Meyers gets open the most IMO but continues to drop passes & have rookie mistakes
• Dorsett does not look great out there. He isn't separating enough nor doesn't appear to be on the same page
• Sanu looks slow. They may need to sit him until he his 100%
• LaCosse should play over Watson

This review wasn't as encouraging as the Texans game & it's not as simple as better weapons needed either. Mason’s regression is arguably the single biggest obstacle to improvement.

 

[luuked]

shouldnt this be on coaching. someone telling brady the 2nd time to look for meyers as well if brady is not doing it or seeing it ? what is the point of the play design if the throw is to the most difficult option

Ok now that I have seen the A22 version of the last throw to Edelman I personally will call out Brady a bit on one aspect. This is not on that pass alone, it is the cumulative effect of him forcing balls to Edelman even when better options are there.

Stop going to your BFF if there is an easier throw and catch available. Meyers doesn't even have to make the end zone but simply catch the ball and hang on to it. There was about a minute on the clock and it would have been a first down from inside the 3 yard line.

I don't care if Meyers had a drop earlier on. Every play has to be tabula rasa. If you can't trust any guy tell it to Josh and sit his ass. But what we can't have is Brady keep ignoring any player (be it Meyers, LaCosse or whoever) when they are open.

 

[luuked]

Let me know if I am too hot takey here. Atleast it will be supported with evidence. Now for almost every 3rd & 4th down on offense:

Opening drive - 3rd & 7 DPI 1

View attachment 25445

Shaq Mason beat by Chris Jones within 2 seconds. A play where legitimately nobody is open. Sanu DPI.

Opening drive - 3rd & 6 DPI 2

View attachment 25446

5 man rush. Wynn beat badly by Clark. Brady has to get rid of the ball in less than 2 seconds. Dorsett gets DPI.

1Q 3rd & 11

View attachment 25447

Shaq Mason beaten badly by Chris Jones. Brady with less than 2 seconds again. It can be debated if he should still be able to get the ball to Rex for a chance at a FG or 4 down territory. Pass protection breakdown costs points.

Next two 3rd downs were 3rd & 1 conversions on the ground (Michel & Tom)

1Q 3rd & 3

View attachment 25449

Play action. No separation from primary read Watson. Lacosse is open. Brady evades two rushers but then throws incomplete to Watson.

2Q 3rd & 7

View attachment 25450

Pass protection holds up. Meyers drops a first down.

2Q 4th & 7

View attachment 25451

Chiefs 6 man rush. Brady misses Edelman.

2Q 3rd & 10

View attachment 25452

Both tackles are matadors within two seconds. Brady doesn't initially check down as it wouldn't be enough for a first. Brady evades both rushers but Mason & Ferentz still screw up forcing the incomplete pass.

2Q 3rd & 9

View attachment 25453

13 seconds left end of half. Mason again. Brady evades somehow

View attachment 25456

He has a clean pocket now. Instead of resetting & throwing to a wide open Meyers he forces the checkdown to White

Mason ruins the initial play & then Tom maybe spooked by the OL doesn't reset. Would Folk make a 52-55 yard FG anyway probably not lol.

3Q 3rd & 5

View attachment 25458

OL is destroyed vs. a 5 man rush. Edelman beats the double team & has the potential for a huge play with no safeties in position. Brady sacked.

4Q 3rd & 3

View attachment 25459

Pass protection is great. Two players are open - Meyers up the seam & Bolden smoked his guy on the right. Meyers drops the ball but gets DPI but Bolden may have had a TD

4Q 3rd & 5

View attachment 25460

Cannon is driven back. Nobody really open resulting in a sack.

4Q 3rd & 12

View attachment 25461

Great disguise on the 4 man rush by the Chiefs. Jones smokes Ferentz & Mason doesn't help. Brady evades but Watson isn't open near the first down marker.

4Q 3rd & 6

View attachment 25462

6 man rush & protection holds up. One of the worst routes from Dorsett. He's 1 on 1 in the slot with off coverage.

4Q 4th & 6

View attachment 25463

Great protection. Chiefs double team three players. Tom runs for a first.

4Q 3rd & 12

View attachment 25464

Chiefs 6 man rush. Maybe a better throw gets Edelman a better chance at yards.

4Q 4th & 3

View attachment 25465

Chiefs engage eight. While Meyers is open Edelman has position & is the right player to go to here. Great coverage by Breeland.

• 16 3rd & 4th down passing situations (removing the two 3rd & 1s)
• four first downs - 3 DPIs & a QB scramble
• 12 failed conversions with two sacks

Just a mess. The OL isn't holding up, the QB isn't playing up to his level & the WRs other than Edelman have problems:

• Meyers gets open the most IMO but continues to drop passes & have rookie mistakes
• Dorsett does not look great out there. He isn't separating enough nor doesn't appear to be on the same page
• Sanu looks slow. They may need to sit him until he his 100%
• LaCosse should play over Watson

This review wasn't as encouraging as the Texans game & it's not as simple as better weapons needed either. Mason’s regression is arguably the single biggest obstacle to improvement.

Here I was thinking the OL play would get better with Wynn. But there are so many pieces playing below their potential that it almost doesn't matter. You almost have to assume that there are a couple of undisclosed injuries because Cannon and Mason have been awful.

Ferentz is what he is. Any big analysis on his play is a waste of time because he is back on the bench as soon as Karras is healthy enough to play.

Thuney is having a great season and Wynn is essentially going through his rookie season. He has been up and down but that seems mostly due to experience. When he starts figuring his opponent out he looks damn good.

 

[SVN]

Ok now that I have seen the A22 version of the last throw to Edelman I personally will call out Brady a bit on one aspect. This is not on that pass alone, it is the cumulative effect of him forcing balls to Edelman even when better options are there.

Stop going to your BFF if there is an easier throw and catch available. Meyers doesn't even have to make the end zone but simply catch the ball and hang on to it. There was about a minute on the clock and it would have been a first down from inside the 3 yard line.

I don't care if Meyers had a drop earlier on. Every play has to be tabula rasa. If you can't trust any guy tell it to Josh and sit his ass. But what we can't have is Brady keep ignoring any player (be it Meyers, LaCosse or whoever) when they are open.

Maybe they need to sit edelman and rest his arm . Or reduce his snaps and make brady use others. The last 3 games are the ones to do this. He is going to go to his favorite WR if he is out there. At somepoint brady just needs to trust his own thinking and leave the catching and dropping to the other guys.

 

[Kontradiction]

Ok now that I have seen the A22 version of the last throw to Edelman I personally will call out Brady a bit on one aspect. This is not on that pass alone, it is the cumulative effect of him forcing balls to Edelman even when better options are there.

Stop going to your BFF if there is an easier throw and catch available. Meyers doesn't even have to make the end zone but simply catch the ball and hang on to it. There was about a minute on the clock and it would have been a first down from inside the 3 yard line.

I don't care if Meyers had a drop earlier on. Every play has to be tabula rasa. If you can't trust any guy tell it to Josh and sit his ass. But what we can't have is Brady keep ignoring any player (be it Meyers, LaCosse or whoever) when they are open.

Edelman was the hot read and was singled up. I’m not sure how you’re coming to the conclusion that Brady shouldn’t go there. That’s not how a hot read works. That’s nice that Meyers was open and Brady probably would have came back to him if the Chiefs didn’t send everyone (forcing him to go to his hot read) but, when that’s the case, the ball is going to the hot receiver. It was Edelman in this case.

 

[luuked]

Edelman was the hot read and was singled up. I’m not sure how you’re coming to the conclusion that Brady shouldn’t go there. That’s not how a hot read works. That’s nice that Meyers was open and Brady probably would have came back to him if the Chiefs didn’t send everyone (forcing him to go to his hot read) but, when that’s the case, the ball is going to the hot receiver. It was Edelman in this case.

Whatever makes you feel better man. I have my opinion and someone more or less open on first down trumps Edelman covered in the EZ. You thinking he was the hot read is also just an opinion tbh.

Am sure Brady thought this was the best decision at that time. Doesn't mean it was after looking at everything.

 

[Kontradiction]

Whatever makes you feel better man. I have my opinion and someone more or less open on first down trumps Edelman covered in the EZ. You thinking he was the hot read is also just an opinion tbh.

Am sure Brady thought this was the best decision at that time. Doesn't mean it was after looking at everything.

This response is a great example of why this thread is useless the majority of the time. I just told you what happened and you respond with “whatever man.” Here’s how a hot read works - when a team throws that many extra rushers at you and the quarterback looks at one guy, that’s the hot read. You’ll see routes like crossers, slants, and outs. Edelman was the hot read. For reference...

Or if the defense appears to be blitzing the quarterback, the passer might call a hot route which strikes quickly before the blitzers get to the quarterback. This is called a “hot read”, because the quarterback reads the defense and makes the necessary adjustment.

https://www.footballbabble.com/football/terms/audible/

So yes, you can have your opinion. But it’s highly (to the point that it’s almost comical) uninformed and incorrect. That rush means one read and go. The hot receiver will be the one that is getting the ball. That hot receiver was Edelman, who was singled up with a Breeland. This is basic stuff, dude. You should know this. There was nothing wrong with the decision. That’s the way it’s drawn up. Breeland just made a good play for a change.

 

[PP2]

Whatever makes you feel better man.

Let's try to avoid this back and forth. It's okay to disagree, but can we please not make it personal?

 

[condon84]

Ok now that I have seen the A22 version of the last throw to Edelman I personally will call out Brady a bit on one aspect. This is not on that pass alone, it is the cumulative effect of him forcing balls to Edelman even when better options are there.

Stop going to your BFF if there is an easier throw and catch available. Meyers doesn't even have to make the end zone but simply catch the ball and hang on to it. There was about a minute on the clock and it would have been a first down from inside the 3 yard line.

I don't care if Meyers had a drop earlier on. Every play has to be tabula rasa. If you can't trust any guy tell it to Josh and sit his ass. But what we can't have is Brady keep ignoring any player (be it Meyers, LaCosse or whoever) when they are open.

If you look at the play on 3rd down Myers is also open going to the flat. Chiefs were playing man and Myers should have been the first look for Brady.

 

[luuked]

Let's try to avoid this back and forth. It's okay to disagree, but can we please not make it personal?

It is not an attack. He just voices his opinion and I am voicing mine. The entire idea that the "hot read" is the one Brady looks at doesn't mean it is the right read and the results speak for themselves with one guy totally open at the line to gain with a simple throw and the other covered with a much more difficult one.

Again, Brady is not infallible and this is just another one of those examples where he just went with his gut instead of what was there. He decided presnap he will go to his favourite target if he is in 1v1 and it proved out to be a bad decision given the difficulty of the throw. And while he has been historically more correct than any other QB in history, in the last few games he has left a lot of completions on the floor just because he keeps forcing balls to a one handed Edelman.

There is not much hot takey about it. It is all in the the tape. Look at the some of the screens that @patsinthesnow has made in the last 2-3 weeks and check how often Meyers (or LaCosse or anyone else) has been open but the ball went to Edelman in vain.

And, hey, given the pressure he is under it is understandable. But that doesn't mean one shouldn't point out the obvious.

 

[Kontradiction]

It is not an attack. He just voices his opinion and I am voicing mine. The entire idea that the "hot read" is the one Brady looks at doesn't mean it is the right read and the results speak for themselves with one guy totally open at the line to gain with a simple throw and the other covered with a much more difficult one.

Again, Brady is not infallible and this is just another one of those examples where he just went with his gut instead of what he was seeing. He decided presnap he will go to his favourite target if he is in 1v1 and it proved out to be a bad decision given the difficulty of the throw. And while he has been historically more correct than any other QB in history in the last few games he has left a lot of completions on the floor just because he keeps forcing balls to a one handed Edelman.

There is not much hot takey about it. It is all in the the tape. Look at the some of the screens that @patsinthesnow has made in the last 2-3 weeks and check how often Meyers (or LaCosse or anyone else) has been open but the ball went to Edelman in vain.

The hot read is in the design of the offensive play call. Unless you think Brady is intentionally going away from that read, which you’ll need to back up with some evidence, it should be VERY COMMON knowledge that, against that kind of blitz, the read the quarterback makes is the hot read. One read and go. He’s not making another read when they’re bringing that many extra rushers or he’s getting sacked. Brady did what the defense and the play call dictated. It’s honestly staggering that you 1) were not aware of what a hot read is even though you’re already walking this back to make appear as if you were, and 2) still don’t seem to grasp it.

There are multiple throws you could criticize Brady for on Sunday. That you picked this one is hilarious. Definitely comes across as if you have an axe to grind. Either that, or it’s pure ignorance. Not sure. But if you don’t even know what a hot route is and when it’s used, you should not be participating in this thread. Either that or don’t leave any of your own comments. Just go back to copying and pasting Chatham and Lazar.

 

[PP2]

Wynn had a tough day against Frank Clark. I think this was his first experience with an elite speed rusher.

 

[luuked]

Wynn had a tough day against Frank Clark. I think this was his first experience with an elite speed rusher.

I think this is not really unexpected. It is one thing to look at film and run reps in practice but then something else finally being exposed to elite speed. Am confident that this experience will make Wynn better prepared for the future.

Most of those mistakes just look like him not giving the speed of Clark enough respect.

Makes me remember all the times in 2011 and 2012 when players were pointing out how much stronger and faster Gronk looks on the field than on the tape they studied.

 

[condon84]

The hot read is in the design of the offensive play call. Unless you think Brady is intentionally going away from that read, which you’ll need to back up with some evidence, it should be VERY COMMON knowledge that, against that kind of blitz, the read the quarterback makes is the hot read. One read and go. He’s not making another read when they’re bringing that many extra rushers or he’s getting sacked. Brady did what the defense and the play call dictated. It’s honestly staggering that you 1) were not aware of what a hot read is even though you’re already walking this back to make appear as if you were, and 2) still don’t seem to grasp it.

There are multiple throws you could criticize Brady for on Sunday. That you picked this one is hilarious. Definitely comes across as if you have an axe to grind. Either that, or it’s pure ignorance. Not sure. But if you don’t even know what a hot route is and when it’s used, you should not be participating in this thread. Either that or don’t leave any of your own comments. Just go back to copying and pasting Chatham and Lazar.

How do you know Edelman was the hot read? It's also common knowledge that QBs also throw to the receiver who's route goes to where the bltiz is coming from. From this overhead angle you can see the middle empty out because they're blitzing from that area and that's where Myers' route takes him.

 

[Uptown]