Zappe vs Mac

[venecol]

Who cares? Arguments to argue. It is Mac or someone else. Zappe is fun but a backup. We need to play Mac (since he showed promise last year) and see if he can work through his issues.

How many loses do you think are enough to let him work through his "issues?"

 

[Tunescribe]

I'm not claiming that Zappy is the answer; only that, based on the circumstances, he should've started vs da Bears because Mac wasn't close enough to 100% to justify making the switch... And, depending on how he looked if he didn't have to start the game in a 10-0 hole, maybe he keeps the job vs the Jete & Clots... All I know is that we might very possibly have won each of the last two games even easier if Zappy had been the QB instead of Mac.

Zappe would have been absolutely killed vs. the Jete and Mac nearly WAS killed. The biggest difference between them being Mac's experience level. Zappe is really good at selling play-action and can get the ball out quickly when he (A) has max protection and doesn't need to sniff out where the blitz is coming from plus (B) isn't working against skilled man-covering DBs (i.e., zones allowing receivers separation). Against either the Jete or Colts he would've looked like Ehlinger out there. The bottom line is this: Mac is not playing well because the offense is effed up; about 40 percent of that is because of the OL, 40 percent on Patricia and 20 percent on Mac directly. You need to have faith that if BB/Patricia/Judge believed Zappe gave the Pats a better chance of winning, he'd be out there. They know what they have in those two, problem being they haven't done a good job putting it all together.
,

 

[venecol]

Clearly, Mac is only responsible for 2% of his bad play and 98% of his good play. The other 98% of Mac's bad play is on the OL & the OC. The other 2% of Mac's good play is on the OL and the OC. Makes sense.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

How many loses do you think are enough to let him work through his "issues?"

We won the last two games. Future theoretical losses? Or loses what?

 

[Pats2000]

Zappe would have been absolutely killed vs. the Jete and Mac nearly WAS killed. The biggest difference between them being Mac's experience level. Zappe is really good at selling play-action and can get the ball out quickly when he (A) has max protection and doesn't need to sniff out where the blitz is coming from plus (B) isn't working against skilled man-covering DBs (i.e., zones allowing receivers separation). Against either the Jete or Colts he would've looked like Ehlinger out there. The bottom line is this: Mac is not playing well because the offense is effed up; about 40 percent of that is because of the OL, 40 percent on Patricia and 20 percent on Mac directly. You need to have faith that if BB/Patricia/Judge believed Zappe gave the Pats a better chance of winning, he'd be out there. They know what they have in those two, problem being they haven't done a good job putting it all together.
,

What was the percentage of fault the last 5 games of last year?

Also, I've watched zappe move in the pocket to avoid pressure, keep his eyes down field, recognize the open receiver and get the ball out on time. Mac is struggling with all of that.

BB even said when Zappe comes off the field, his assessment of the D is usually the same as BB. The evidence points to everything you said being wrong.

 

[Pats2000]

We won the last two games. Future theoretical losses? Or loses what?

I think hes pointing out to the fact that we have a fairly tough schedule coming up and if Mac keeps playing that way, there are some definite losses coming up.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I think hes pointing out to the fact that we have a fairly tough schedule coming up and if Mac keeps playing that way, there are some definite losses coming up.

Maybe but he wrote loses.

 

[RIpats88]

How many loses do you think are enough to let him work through his "issues?"

Idk how long did the dolphins give Tua, or the eagles give hurts, or the bills give Josh Allen.

I can't really think of an example of a team that dumped their 1st round QB in their second season. Even if struggling. Usually it's 3 years at least they get.

Panicking and dumping your QB when they struggle every couple years is just what really bad teams do.

 

[1960Pats]

Not after that Bagel the Raiders put up yesterday.

He seems to be heading in the same direction as Patricia and Judge did as HCs.

 

[Triumph]

Macs ankle is still brittle.

Thats why winning these last 2 games vs quality opponents before the BYE was so crucial. Mac did it on only 1 ankle. When Mac returns on November 20th he will have 2 ankles again like everyone else. Then you will see the full power of this NE offense as they march to the playoffs with General Mac.

Zappe is a bum and coffee fetcher. The Patriots send him down to Dunkin Donuts and pray that he doesn't screw the order all up. They only have Crispy Creme in Kentucky.

 

[1960Pats]

I have supported Mac through these troubling times, but I have finally crossed over to the dark side and now decided Zappe is the qb of the future. Thoughts??

It's too early to tell for both of them, but there is the "if you have two QBs you have none" theory.

 

[Tunescribe]

What was the percentage of fault the last 5 games of last year?

Also, I've watched zappe move in the pocket to avoid pressure, keep his eyes down field, recognize the open receiver and get the ball out on time. Mac is struggling with all of that.
s t
BB even said when Zappe comes off the field, his assessment of the D is usually the same as BB. The evidence points to everything you said being wrong.

None of this relates directly to or refutes my post. I get that you like Zappe and he definitely has performed well under certain circumstances, but if "the evidence points to everything" I said "being wrong," why hasn't Bailey supplanted Mac as starting quarterback?

 

[JMC00]

Zappe would have been absolutely killed vs. the Jete and Mac nearly WAS killed. The biggest difference between them being Mac's experience level. Zappe is really good at selling play-action and can get the ball out quickly when he (A) has max protection and doesn't need to sniff out where the blitz is coming from plus (B) isn't working against skilled man-covering DBs (i.e., zones allowing receivers separation). Against either the Jete or Colts he would've looked like Ehlinger out there. The bottom line is this: Mac is not playing well because the offense is effed up; about 40 percent of that is because of the OL, 40 percent on Patricia and 20 percent on Mac directly. You need to have faith that if BB/Patricia/Judge believed Zappe gave the Pats a better chance of winning, he'd be out there. They know what they have in those two, problem being they haven't done a good job putting it all together.
,

Jones is out there because he was pick #15 last year and Zappe is a 4th round rookie. If Jones had been a 4th round pick last year and beat out Newton I think it's a much easier decision and pill to swallow for the organization to just move on to Zappe.

Also Zappe did pretty decent with Wynn getting abused by the best pass rusher in the league Myles Garrett.

 

[JMC00]

 

[Tunescribe]

Jones is out there because he was pick #15 last year and Zappe is a 4th round rookie. If Jones had been a 4th round pick last year and beat out Newton I think it's a much easier decision and pill to swallow for the organization to just move on to Zappe.

No way. It's well established that BB does not favor players for the sake of appearances. If he felt Zappe was the better quarterback he'd be playing.

 

[Ollie]

No way. It's well established that BB does not favor players for the sake of appearances. If he felt Zappe was the better quarterback he'd be playing.

I'm not sure it's that simple, QBs aren't the final product as rookies and it can take a few years before you know what you have. I think we have to find out what If mac can be the guy and you only can do that by sticking with him for a period of time. Sure if he starts losing games by throwing multiple picks they will eventually pull him but i think they will allow some growing pains to see if he can develop.

 

[Thelonious]

I persist in believing there should be, as Bill has claimed there is, genuine competition at EVERY position, and that the winner is based on performance, on what is "best for the team"(as Bill says) and not on draft position, past accomplishments, etc. (as Bill says). On that basis, Zappe has not, in my mind, been afforded the opportunities he has earned. It's all water over the dam, alas, at this point. They are obviously determined to "see what they have in Mac." I'm pretty sure they'll be disappointed in what they find, frankly: I know I am to this point. To be fair, It really is hard to make a final determination on Mac when his coaching and playcalling are as cruelly inept as they are. I'd dump Matt/Joe ASAP to get a better take. Unfortunately, the price for extending your look at Mac - with or without the Patricia boat anchor - will likely be that you will still at the end of the year not know on any firm, empirical basis what you have in Zappe. To me, that's a very significant price to pay for Mac's second and third chances.

 

[JMC00]

No way. It's well established that BB does not favor players for the sake of appearances. If he felt Zappe was the better quarterback he'd be playing.

Zappe will be the starter week 1 2023. Bill will gives Jones the rest of the season and then training camp but I expect with a year in the system Zappe will outplay Jones in camp next year and win the job.

Jones poor play isn't just this year, Jones has had poor play since the 2nd half of last season.

 

[Thelonious]

None of this relates directly to or refutes my post. I get that you like Zappe and he definitely has performed well under certain circumstances, but if "the evidence points to everything" I said "being wrong," why hasn't Bailey supplanted Mac as starting quarterback?

They want to "see what they have in Mac," in part quite likjely because they have invested a 1st-round pick in him. Simple as that. Unfortunately, of course, this contradicts long held claims about 'the Patriot way," given that Zappe has by any reasonable empirical measure outplayed Mac this year. Bill has claimed there is genuine, objectively-assessed competition at every position. In this instance that does not seem to be the case. One note: if they insist on going through with these extended opportunities for Mac to prove himself, could we at least stop all the whining about Mac's "hurt feelings" (Looking at you, Curran), and focus on what he actually, demonstrably can DO, which so far this year ain't much?

 

[203Pat]

This play is a microcosm of Jones' issues ... basically his struggles in a nutshell. He has a really clean pocket here but you still see all the same problems:

• Never looks to his right (appears to have an open Bourne on a checkdown)
• Anxious in the pocket, moves too soon/too much, runs himself into pressure causing his rhythm/timing to break down in the process (watch how he squares his hips; once he does that, he's done for).
• Hesitant, unsure, indecisive
• Poor mechanics across the board: footwork, hips/core, throwing, etc. Just sloppy.

View attachment 47096

He looks like a completely different player this year. He had his rookie moments quite a few times last year but there were plenty of times that Mac looked poised in the pocket and stepped up in the pocket and took what the defense gives him. This year he seems to get jittery even when he has a clean pocket and doesn't even seem to see the check downs let alone throw to them. Something that I think is making it worse is all of a sudden he wants to tuck the ball and scramble fairly often. If his first read isn't there he wants to take off and he isn't super athletic so at some point he is just going to get crushed and then he will be even more gun shy.