PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Zappe vs Mac

Next Opp: TBD
THE HUB FOR PATRIOTS FANS SINCE 2000

CURRENT POPULAR DISCUSSIONS:
Reiss: Vrabel will not be present day 3 of draft
Posted By: Joey007
April 23, 2026 at 8:24 am
Total Replies: 66

# Of Users:32
DarrylSCrazy Patriot GuyTriumphTunescribeWater BoyPatsfanin Phillyctpatsfan77patfankenUGAPatsfanPatsFan2upstater1
WEEI afternoons: Hart and Fitzy gone
Posted By: sb1
April 23, 2026 at 8:24 am
Total Replies: 25

# Of Users:20
Sean Pa PatriotTunescribeZumaUGAPatsfanfesty1986h0c2000RobertWeathersRob0729FortressXFree_Pacmanneuronet
TODAY'S MOST REACTED POSTS:
ahmedReiss: Vrabel will not be present day 3 of draft
7 Reactions
04/23 at 3:41 am

By: ahmed

mayoclinicDream Draft
5 Reactions
04/22 at 11:14 pm

By: mayoclinic

TODAY'S TOP POSTERS:#
manxman260123 posts
mayoclinic11 posts
festy19867 posts
RobertWeathers7 posts
One-If-By-Sea6 posts
 

Mac or Zappe

  • Zappe

  • Mac


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Idk how long did the dolphins give Tua, or the eagles give hurts, or the bills give Josh Allen.

I can't really think of an example of a team that dumped their 1st round QB in their second season. Even if struggling. Usually it's 3 years at least they get.

Panicking and dumping your QB when they struggle every couple years is just what really bad teams do.
Jalen Hurts was a second round pick. #53 overall in the 2020 draft.

But yes I get the idea of giving a higher rated prospect extra leeway. But at a certain point that just becomes sunken cost fallacy.

You play the better QB, you win more football games.

We already have a case of this in our own lore and history when a certain 6th round pick took over for a 1st round QB and became Bob Kraft's "best decision ever."
 
I'm purely speculating, so caveating this with the following: everything that I type below is just my opinion, man.

I think Zappe has played better. I think if you were picking between Jones and Zappe and wanted the guy who gave you the best chance to win a single given game, you'd go with Zappe. My hunch is BB feels this way, too. I think starting Jones is a longer-term play in terms of figuring out if he can improve/evolve, while acknowledging this season the team is unlikely to compete for a Super Bowl.

If you don't think you'll be competing for a championship this season and you have two young quarterbacks, it probably makes more sense to play Jones since he's further along his timeline, and - in my opinion at least - has more to work on at this point in time. And, does Zappe really gain that much by playing the rest of this season as a rookie?

Where things get interesting to me is how the rest of the season plays out. I think if the team continues to win, works themselves into seeding position, and the rest of the AFC sets up such that the Pats could make a run (like if Allen's injury lingers, for instance), the draw to play Zappe increases, if the team is winning but Jones continues to struggle.

There were several ways forward after Jones returned: 1. The team is losing and Jones stinks. 2. The team is losing but Jones plays well. 3. The team is winning and Jones is good. 4. The team is winning and Jones stinks.

In scenarios 2 & 3, Jones certainly continues to play. In scenario 1, I think Jones likely continues to play (unless he was putrid and turning the ball over in spades) because there's nothing to play for. Scenario 4 - which is the one we're currently experiencing - is the most fascinating because I think the pull to potentially play Zappe (if you feel he gives the team better quarterback play) is the strongest, since that scenario involves the team potentially finding themselves in a position for a playoff run.
 
Jalen Hurts was a second round pick. #53 overall in the 2020 draft.

But yes I get the idea of giving a higher rated prospect extra leeway. But at a certain point that just becomes sunken cost fallacy.

You play the better QB, you win more football games.

We already have a case of this in our own lore and history when a certain 6th round pick took over for a 1st round QB and became Bob Kraft's "best decision ever."
We're not going over the same old arguments, are we?

Bledsoe was 9 years into his career and very set in his ways.

Brady is the greatest of all-time.

Mac Jones is not in his 9th year, Bailey isn't Brady.
 
Who knows, there are n number of reasons that could be. Maybe BB doesn't want to give up on Jones just yet. Or maybe Mac is playing better in practice and sh*tting the bed in games.

And it sure does refute your post. You stated Zappe would have been killed more than Mac because he doesn't recognize the blitz or can't work against man coverage. The fact that he is recognizing the defense, as stated by BB, and played well against the Browns, who are #8 in pass defense and spend the 10th most time in man coverage in the league says that your assumptions are incorrect.

It refutes nothing. Yes, Bailey played well vs. the then-30th ranked (Browns) and then-32nd ranked (Lions) defenses. You can cherrypick all you want beyond that but the sample size of what he has proven capable of remains small and qualified by who he faced, also mitigated by his second-half struggles against Chicago. Cleveland/Detroit/Chicago are not the Jete and Indy, you can't assume his processing and performance would translate facing much stronger defenses. Which is no slam against Zappe, who has exceeded what he showed during training camp in terms of potential after landing third on the depth chart.

Here's a good summary of what Cleveland was doing defensively vs. New England:

Unlike many folks in this thread who are anti-Mac Jones, I am neither "pro-Mac" nor "anti-Zappe." I simply interpret the coaches' decision to continue starting Mac as their belief that he gives the team its best chance to win. Mac definitely has not played well but it's not all his fault: healthy young quarterbacks don't "regress" with good coaching and strong OL play.

Puhleeze.

I think you mean, "please." Or maybe, "I respectfully disagree."

They do not "know what they have" in Mac (nor in Zappe). They THOUGHT they did re Mac in the beginning of the year, but they were wrong, weren't they?

They are professional football coaches, they absolutely know what they have in these players AT THE PRESENT TIME, which is all that matters. That's my only point: their responsibility is to determine who gives the Patriots their best chance to win the next game, not next month or the 2023 season opener. If you want to consider where coaching has gone wrong re. Mac, it's how he's been handled.

I do certainly agree that Matt is an utter disaster and I understand the argument that we cannot make a final determination re Mac until his coaching/playcalling is at least adequate, but, again, the idea - given the facts to this point this year - that they know Mac is the guy is just nonsense.

You're putting words in my mouth, I never claimed ANYONE knows Mac is "the guy" come hell or high water. But I guarantee they know whether he, Zappe or Hoyer is "the guy" facing New Jersey a week from Sunday.
 
Last edited:
Have we really given Brian Hoyer a chance to show us what he's got?

Just being a ****... continue
Keeping him around let's us appreciate Mac and Bailey more....reminds me of the old Rodney Dangerfield line. "If you want to feel skinny, hang around with fat people". So if we want to feel better about Mac and Bailey, hang around Brian.
 
Last edited:
Keeping him around let's us appreciate Mac and Bailey more....reminds me of the old Rodney Dangerfield line. "If want want to feel skinny, hang around with fat people". So if we want to feel better about Mac and Bailey, hang around Brian.

What would make ME feel better: scoring touchdowns instead of field goals. Mac, Zappe or Hoyer, I don't care who does it.
 
What would make ME feel better: scoring touchdowns instead of field goals. Mac, Zappe or Hoyer, I don't care who does it.
Well yes, someone has to finish the drives. Longer term I'd hope it were Mac or Zappe. Zappe we don't know enough yet though.
 
I think we need to know if Mac is hampered by injuries or coaching change. As dreighver mentioned this is an experimental season we are not going anywhere in post season. So if we fail miserably and get a top 10 pick that's also a win as we can lay foundation for next 2 years .


We cannot look at a QB till 2025 season. Use 2023 and 2024 to decide between Mac and zappe . QB purgatory is there for 4 years .

Unless Bill decides to pull the rug and get jimmy next season. But considering the OLine and coaching challenges we should give Mac /zappe one more year.

2024 could really be our year.
 
I think we need to know if Mac is hampered by injuries or coaching change. As dreighver mentioned this is an experimental season we are not going anywhere in post season. So if we fail miserably and get a top 10 pick that's also a win as we can lay foundation for next 2 years .


We cannot look at a QB till 2025 season. Use 2023 and 2024 to decide between Mac and zappe . QB purgatory is there for 4 years .

Unless Bill decides to pull the rug and get jimmy next season. But considering the OLine and coaching challenges we should give Mac /zappe one more year.

2024 could really be our year.

Bah. This season is not "experimental," BB just royally EFFED THINGS UP! Unless, of course, the ship miraculously gets righted during bye week, for which no one in their right mind is holding their breath.
 
Idk how long did the dolphins give Tua, or the eagles give hurts, or the bills give Josh Allen.

I can't really think of an example of a team that dumped their 1st round QB in their second season. Even if struggling. Usually it's 3 years at least they get.

Panicking and dumping your QB when they struggle every couple years is just what really bad teams do.

Agreed. @venecol has the patience of a rabbit. It takes time. We were sold that Mac would make the jump to passing to all 3 levels quickly. Shame on us for believing that. Just a bit of patience please.
 
Bah. This season is not "experimental," BB just royally EFFED THINGS UP! Unless, of course, the ship miraculously gets righted during bye week, for which no one in their right mind is holding their breath.

Or we could be building to be a good playoff team in 2023. But no. BB EFFED THINGS UP! Get a life.
 
Bah. This season is not "experimental," BB just royally EFFED THINGS UP! Unless, of course, the ship miraculously gets righted during bye week, for which no one in their right mind is holding their breath.
Ye of little faith. Not that I'll be rewarded for breath-holding necessarily, but you can't tap out yet or it's no fun

This season is not a write-off yet. What you are looking for is signs that I, specifically, publically give up on him. When I do so, find your bookie and bet the other way, because I am always wrong. ("You don't throw away a franchise QB for a young guy who had a few well-timed drives!") Edit - this was my Bledsoe/Brady logic in the 2002 offseason.

I did almost go that far, wanting to see more Zappe cards. I kept feeling like damn, give Zappe the ball and it's a different game. A little bloom has come off that rose since Chicago established how easy it is to bat down a 3/4 delivery from a 6' QB. (I almost typed 6" QB, Stone Enge style.)

What I wish somebody would do is figure out how much time he's getting. with numbers, not "eye tests." I don't want to hear is that he doesn't have any targets. They're fine and I'm against chasing that dragon any more until he's able to use them effectively. Right now you don't get much bang for the buck if you go out blowing more money on pass catchers. Once he can maximize the ones he has, that's another story. I mean the ones on our team, not the opposing defense

This isn't a Zappe plea in disguise; he'd hit that wall too once there's film on him. That book might actually be out there since the Chicago game. Who knows whether he could respond. Right now I'll spend my what-ifs on Jones.

I'm grumpy but hopeful, and above all impatient because I am entitled to watch a Pats game every week, even if I have to wait for an NFLN rerun.

Know what I'd love to see? Dimes into the end zone by God, not field goals .
 
Or we could be building to be a good playoff team in 2023. But no. BB EFFED THINGS UP! Get a life.

What do you mean, "get a life"? And who cares about 2023? We can concern ourselves with that NEXT year.

The Pats offense is in utter shambles halfway through the season a year after they made the playoffs. They should have emphasized continuity with a promising young quarterback and built on THAT through capable coaches versed in the system. Instead BB scraps the works, institutes a new playbook with new terminology handing it over to two mediocre cronies with no prior experience running an offense. On top of it he saddles "OC" Patricia with coaching an OL that has been the crux of this mess since training camp.

I'm in my 28th year as a season ticket holder, I go to all the games. I am not giving up on this team and never have, but aside from fielding a slightly above-average defense there isn't much to hang your hat on heading into the stretch run. If this offense comes out of the bye hitting on all cylinders then I'll defer to your notion of a plan in progress but I see little reason for optimism.

I see a lot of pricey talent underutilized or going to waste -- Henry, Smith, Bourne, Agholor, etc. -- and if they're not giving Marcus Jones sufficient snaps on defense, why not use him in the slot? What promising indicators have YOU seen of "building to be a good playoff team in 2023"? Please be specific as I welcome reasons to lighten my mood about this.

Ye of little faith. Not that I'll be rewarded for breath-holding necessarily, but you can't tap out yet or it's no fun

This season is not a write-off yet. What you are looking for is signs that I, specifically, publically give up on him. When I do so, find your bookie and bet the other way, because I am always wrong. ("You don't throw away a franchise QB for a young guy who had a few well-timed drives!") Edit - this was my Bledsoe/Brady logic in the 2002 offseason.

I did almost go that far, wanting to see more Zappe cards. I kept feeling like damn, give Zappe the ball and it's a different game. A little bloom has come off that rose since Chicago established how easy it is to bat down a 3/4 delivery from a 6' QB. (I almost typed 6" QB, Stone Enge style.)

What I wish somebody would do is figure out how much time he's getting. with numbers, not "eye tests." I don't want to hear is that he doesn't have any targets. They're fine and I'm against chasing that dragon any more until he's able to use them effectively. Right now you don't get much bang for the buck if you go out blowing more money on pass catchers. Once he can maximize the ones he has, that's another story. I mean the ones on our team, not the opposing defense

This isn't a Zappe plea in disguise; he'd hit that wall too once there's film on him. That book might actually be out there since the Chicago game. Who knows whether he could respond. Right now I'll spend my what-ifs on Jones.

I'm grumpy but hopeful, and above all impatient because I am entitled to watch a Pats game every week, even if I have to wait for an NFLN rerun.

Know what I'd love to see? Dimes into the end zone by God, not field goals .

See above.
 
Last edited:
Since this continues to be a debate, I put together a film snapshot of each player from their last two respective outings in this thread:


It essentially shows each player at the end of their respective drops and who was open, how things looked, etc.
 
What do you mean, "get a life"? And who cares about 2023? We can concern ourselves with that NEXT year.

The Pats offense is in utter shambles halfway through the season a year after they made the playoffs. They should have emphasized continuity with a promising young quarterback and built on THAT through capable coaches versed in the system. Instead BB scraps the works, institutes a new playbook with new terminology handing it over to two mediocre cronies with no prior experience running an offense. On top of it he saddles "OC" Patricia with coaching an OL that has been the crux of this mess since training camp.

I'm in my 28th year as a season ticket holder, I go to all the games. I am not giving up on this team and never have, but aside from fielding a slightly above-average defense there isn't much to hang your hat on heading into the stretch run. If this offense comes out of the bye hitting on all cylinders then I'll defer to your notion of a plan in progress but I see little reason for optimism.

I see a lot of pricey talent underutilized or going to waste -- Henry, Smith, Bourne, Agholor, etc. -- and if they're not going to give Marcus Jones sufficient snaps on defense, why not use him in the slot? What promising indicators have YOU seen of "building to be a good playoff team in 2023"? Please be specific as I welcome reasons to lighten my mood about this.



See above.
I don't know how to read what I'm seeing, other than the obvious read you're expressing... what is BB smoking. This sentiment doesn't tend to age well, so I'm waiting to see if there's a reason for what we've seen, or whether he's just being a duce, as they say in Italy.

By the way, FWIW, who revamped the offensive playbook with the OZ zone "wrinkle?" Him or Patricia? I don't know this answer but it would be interesting to know... is this BB going back to the lab, however long it takes, or is this him saying "okay it's all you, Matt"? Do we have this answer, definitively? Everybody's on board, so it doesn't matter for the blame game, and I don't play it. I'm just genuinely curious whether we know these things and if so how.

Begin crazy theory/ I've expressed my crazy theory about the Zappe confusion, and at some point I think it will be born out although there is zero proof now... that BB wanted to see more Zappe because at Round 4, the Zappe pick could be a pure Bill pick, whereas at pick no. 15, they made publicly clear that Jones was a concensus pick... he might or might not have been BB's idea. But even if he was, if Zappe was purely "his" hire with everybody saying "yeah sure, it's just a 4," it's certainly within his capacity to go ahead and get a longer look at him. It wouldn't be the main reason, but a bit of a thumb on a scale. /crazy theory

Soooo I am very ready for Mac to be working his butt off to be fire after the bye, as the kids might or might not say. One of you young turds tell me if I said "fire" right there.

But probably like you, I wonder who he'd be working with, if he's working his butt off. Judge I guess. What are his "quarterback whisperer" credentials? Overseeing the bang-up job Daniel Jones did in 2021, via whoever the position coach is with the Gintz? I mean, I know nothing except that I know nothing.

I do wonder why BB is filling the staff with guys with Patriots rings, "getting the band back together," as it were. I kind of wonder whether he irrationally wants some feeling of safety/familiarity for himself in the wake of the loss of Brady and the Flores weirdness. "Just get me guys who got rings with me and let me do my job." Subconscious coloring of judgment, not conscious reasoning on his part. A little bit of fortress thinking with all the incoming he takes.

There, crazy theories all discharged.

What Jones is doing now -- throwing picks, being indecisive, etc. -- isn't the planned end game. So let's dare to hope the master motivator Bill Belichick has the whole team watch Dodgeball, then calls Mac out front and center and has Judge appear in the rear of the auditorium lugging a sack of wrenches. Or whatever he needs to do to get it all to click. I've thrown my off-brand wack-job thoughts out there, now it's a matter of repitition until he "gets it."

Remember, squeek through until December and then truly go on a rampage, and it makes you the team that peaked at the right time.

So I am loving the D, stipulating the Chicago exception.

I am loving the run game, especially Stevenson, and I see the rest of that stable, including Strong and Other Harris, as potential-filled extra ammunition.

I see us deep at wide-out, which by the way is already proving to be the right move, based on injuries alone.

And I see an O-line that can keep pace with the less fearsome defensive fronts in the league, and undersized and underpowered against the true beasts.

I see Mac being talked down, yours truly included, because he's not a guy who wins the game for you. He's just a guy who, on a good day, doesn't lose it.. So wouldn't it be cool if he consistently doesn't lose it for us, and that's enough, against the best teams? And I'd hate to win it this way... but wouldn't it be great if he doesn't have to lose it against an Allen-less Buffalo? Sorry but at this point, I'll take it.

Better, wouldn't it be great for Mac (with improvement) + consistency/healing up on D + O-line stability + no backsies in the run game, all flourish in the second half, and we are there and deserve to be there?

okay, it's easy to envision the other scenario, so I'm trying on purpose to put on the rose colored glasses.
 
It refutes nothing. Yes, Bailey played well vs. the then-30th ranked (Browns) and then-32nd ranked (Lions) defenses. You can cherrypick all you want beyond that but the sample size of what he has proven capable of remains small and qualified by who he faced, also mitigated by his second-half struggles against Chicago. Cleveland/Detroit/Chicago are not the Jete and Indy, you can't assume his processing and performance would translate facing much stronger defenses. Which is no slam against Zappe, who has exceeded what he showed during training camp in terms of potential after landing third on the depth chart.

Here's a good summary of what Cleveland was doing defensively vs. New England:

Unlike many folks in this thread who are anti-Mac Jones, I am neither "pro-Mac" nor "anti-Zappe." I simply interpret the coaches' decision to continue starting Mac as their belief that he gives the team its best chance to win. Mac definitely has not played well but it's not all his fault: healthy young quarterbacks don't "regress" with good coaching and strong OL play.



I think you mean, "please." Or maybe, "I respectfully disagree."



They are professional football coaches, they absolutely know what they have in these players AT THE PRESENT TIME, which is all that matters. That's my only point: their responsibility is to determine who gives the Patriots their best chance to win the next game, not next month or the 2023 season opener. If you want to consider where coaching has gone wrong re. Mac, it's how he's been handled.



You're putting words in my mouth, I never claimed ANYONE knows Mac is "the guy" come hell or high water. But I guarantee they know whether he, Zappe or Hoyer is "the guy" facing New Jersey a week from Sunday.
No, I meant "puhleeze," as in "You can't be serious." Some "professional football coaches" are better than others, and none are infallible. Does this come as news to you? Increasingly desperate, handwringing efforts here to hold Mac safe from factual observations re his demonstrable failures this year would indeed suggest that some clearly feel that he is "their guy," that Mac is indeed the object of their adoration, or at least he would be the guy if Mean Bill had not hurt his widdle feelings. Ridiculous. I'm not a Zappe guy or a Mac guy either, but I do have an affinity for facts you seem to lack.
 
No, I meant "puhleeze," as in "You can't be serious." Some "professional football coaches" are better than others, and none are infallible. Does this come as news to you? Increasingly desperate, handwringing efforts here to hold Mac safe from factual observations re his demonstrable failures this year would indeed suggest that some clearly feel that he is "their guy," that Mac is indeed the object of their adoration, or at least he would be the guy if Mean Bill had not hurt his widdle feelings. Ridiculous. I'm not a Zappe guy or a Mac guy either, but I do have an affinity for facts you seem to lack.

This seems to be a conversation you're having with yourself. Affinity for alternative facts aside, do either of you know what the other guy really is trying to say? Or maybe you're just talking past each other, hard to tell. But if I were you, I'd find the nearest mirror and tell that fellow to take a running jump.
 
Last edited:
But yes I get the idea of giving a higher rated prospect extra leeway. But at a certain point that just becomes sunken cost fallacy.
It was clear that Eason wasn't the guy by 1985. Not to Berry, though.
What would make ME feel better: scoring touchdowns instead of field goals. Mac, Zappe or Hoyer, I don't care who does it.
I understand, but it's extremely important to remember that we've been burned many times by eschewing a practically certain three points, coming away with nothing and losing by a point or two. I could go on and on. You know how many touchdowns the Giants scored in the NFCCG at SF with Hostetler? Zero. None. Not to mention SB42. And that miserable AFCCG at Denver when we gave Von Miller and the rest of them the game. We should have won the Super Bowl, even with an O-line that played as poorly as ours has at times this year.
You play the better QB, you win more football games.
And you must see who the obviously better quarterback is. Berry-Eason. Kiam-Flutie.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Former Patriots Super Bowl MVP Set to Announce Pick During Draft
TRANSCRIPT: Mike Vrabel’s Media Statement on Tuesday 4/21
MORSE: What Will the Patriots Do in the Draft?
MORSE: Patriots Prospects and 30 Visits
Patriots News 04-19, Countdown To Draft Day
MORSE: Patriots Mock Draft 6 – A Week Before the Draft
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/13
Patriots News 04-12, What To Watch For In The NFL Draft
MORSE: Pre-Draft Patriots News and Notes
MORSE: Patriots Mock Draft 5
MORSE: Patriots Mock Draft 5
Mark Morse
2 weeks ago
Back
Top