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Trade a 2nd For Jimmy Now; This is Not a Long Term Commitment

2021 Patriots Season:
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Sep 12th

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stcjones

Pro Bowl Player
Claiming Garapolo is worth a 1st rounder is something I’d expect from a 49er fan that has his/her hopes up. I’d ask those same fans point blank, would you give a first for him?

Bottom line, he’s damaged. He blew his acl out in year one over there and hasn’t been the same since. It happens, see RG3. Some players just don’t come back the same and lose their tendency and lack of fear to move outside the pocket.

I like him for a 2nd or 3rd. If they give up a 1st I’ll be quite upset.
I like him maybe for a 3rd rounder but like many keep mentioning...I would worry about his durability/injury prone past....he’s missed ALOT of games....2) A lot of Int’s and 3) He seems to choke a lot when game is on the line. Obviously NO ONE (except maybe the ghost of Al Davis) is going to give up a #1 for Jimmy...and I can’t think of many that would give up a #2 + his contract.....I think he gets a #3 or gets cut (which is probably more likely scenario)
 

RIpats88

In the Starting Line-Up
last week he wasnt available, now its for a #1. in a couple weeks it will be a #2. Given his injury history, Jimmy just isnt worth a 1st rounder. Maybe we should stop treating the super bowl year as the norm, and the injury years as the outlier and start treating the super bowl year as the outlier. And as much as we hear "but he brought them to a superbowl!" it isnt exactly the case. his stats in that superbowl run were pretty poor:

1617457723447.png

Those stats are pretty poor. Those stats show someone that was dragged to a superbowl behind a great running game and defense. 2 TD's and 3 interceptions. 8 total passes in the NFCCG. Now, thats not to say I dont want him back here. I think he fits our offense perfectly and has higher upside than Cam newton as hes a better passer.

But people are making Jimmy G out to be this elite QB that we should trade #15 for.
 
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Scotty

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Dont think I can come up with an alternative but a 1st for a guy who has missed so many games......not for me.
 

Lansdowne

In the Starting Line-Up
I’m of the mind that we haven’t seen Garoppolo’s best yet, and there are other QBs in history whose best years didn’t come until their 30’s. But while he does offer some experience and an upgrade at the QB spot, his value does not equal a first when you consider the risks regarding his durability concerns (expected to start 4 games in 2016 but only started 2, expected to start 48 games from 2018-2020 but only started 25), plus he’s not on his rookie deal anymore, so he’ll cost more than if the Pats just draft a QB using that 1st round pick, and the market for retreads has pretty much thinned out. The Pats are the only team I’ve heard linked to a possible deal. We very well may be thinking more about this than BB is at this point. The 1st rounder just seems like wishful thinking on the part of the Niners and their fans. I expect the price either to come down or for the Niners to hope Garoppolo can boost his trade value on the field by next offseason.
 

Lansdowne

In the Starting Line-Up
I think 49ers would be open to a future year first to replace one of the lost first round picks that they traded. I am not so sure about giving up a future 2nd, though. I don't think 49ers would value Cam Newton. The perception is that their system is very complicated and it takes a QB a while to learn the system. They are probably better off having Josh Rosen play a year, or possibly having the rookie QB start over that.
Couldn’t be that complicated if Jimmy was able to join the team halfway through the season in 2017, start his first game a month later, and finish off the season averaging 308 passing yards per game in 5 starts.

Also how would a rookie quarterback be expected to learn this complicated system any quicker than an experienced NFL quarterback like Cam would? Doesn’t make sense to me. The Niners wouldn’t start Rosen if they’re serious about this talk of contending for a Super Bowl this year. More likely to sign a guy like Alex Smith instead of taking Cam, than to start Rosen.

Maybe the Niners give up a 3rd instead of a 2nd in this scenario. But no way the Pats would give up a first, this year or next, and only get Jimmy out of it. Guaranteed that won’t happen.
 

Patriot Missile

Pro Bowl Player
Regarding JG. I was thinking back to comparable Patriot qb’s not named Brady and the one that comes to mind is Matt Cassell. As strange as it sounds he was actually a better qb than JG. Thrown into duty after the Brady injury and actually took his team to 11-5 without a good running game. He was also able to net the Pats a 2nd round pick from the Chiefs. Ofcourse every Pats fan thought we were getting a first round pick for him. Some thought more lol.

Dead horse but for Bradys suspension, 2 games and injured. First full season with 9ers, acl injury. Super bowl run? All running game through the playoffs, threw record low 8 passes in one win. Superbowl loss, between him and Shanahan enough blame to go around. He didn’t make the throws needed. Lingering ankle injury kept him sidelined almost all of last year. Common theme in such a short career.

Nothing about this guy says 1st round pick to me. They might be better off with Mullens or Beathard imo.
 

bigballas

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
last week he wasnt available, now its for a #1. in a couple weeks it will be a #2. Given his injury history, Jimmy just isnt worth a 1st rounder. Maybe we should stop treating the super bowl year as the norm, and the injury years as the outlier and start treating the super bowl year as the outlier. And as much as we hear "but he brought them to a superbowl!" it isnt exactly the case. his stats in that superbowl run were pretty poor:

View attachment 31893

Those stats are pretty poor. Those stats show someone that was dragged to a superbowl behind a great running game and defense. 2 TD's and 3 interceptions. 8 total passes in the NFCCG. Now, thats not to say I dont want him back here. I think he fits our offense perfectly and has higher upside than Cam newton as hes a better passer.

But people are making Jimmy G out to be this elite QB that we should trade #15 for.
we should check out Joe Flacco. he actually got his team to a super bowl and WON
 
last week he wasnt available, now its for a #1. in a couple weeks it will be a #2. Given his injury history, Jimmy just isnt worth a 1st rounder. Maybe we should stop treating the super bowl year as the norm, and the injury years as the outlier and start treating the super bowl year as the outlier. And as much as we hear "but he brought them to a superbowl!" it isnt exactly the case. his stats in that superbowl run were pretty poor:

View attachment 31893

Those stats are pretty poor. Those stats show someone that was dragged to a superbowl behind a great running game and defense. 2 TD's and 3 interceptions. 8 total passes in the NFCCG. Now, thats not to say I dont want him back here. I think he fits our offense perfectly and has higher upside than Cam newton as hes a better passer.

But people are making Jimmy G out to be this elite QB that we should trade #15 for.
I want to address the argument that the 49ers stance on JG trade is changing. Since trading to #3 pick in current draft, the 49ers have been saying that JG is in their plans this year and they don't plan to trade him unless they are blown away with an offer. Here is from their news conference:

Just reading between the lines, it seems like you really do want to keep Jimmy Garoppolo, but if someone blew you away with a trade offer, you would have to consider that. I guess for starters, is that accurate?

KS: "Yeah, that's accurate with every player on our team. I mean, probably including myself. If someone blows us away with a trade for me, I bet you John would trade me. I mean, definitely. We’re in a situation where when you bring in a rookie quarterback, to me, it's always better, especially on the team that you have, if you've got a veteran starter there already who you like and you're comfortable winning with. That's usually the direction you want to go and not throw someone else out into the fire until they're fully ready.
Reading between the lines, that suggests that the 49ers agree with you. JG is not worth a first. So since they don't want to trade him, a team would have to overpay to move them off their stance that they don't plan on trading JG this year, i.e. offering them a 1st round pick.

Bottom line is I think Pats fans will need to accept that JG is not going to be their QB this year. Next year they may get him for free if he gets cut (which means another year of being injured or playing poorly), or based on another successful year, probably having the same debate on whether he is worth a 1st or 2nd round pick.
 

RIpats88

In the Starting Line-Up
I want to address the argument that the 49ers stance on JG trade is changing. Since trading to #3 pick in current draft, the 49ers have been saying that JG is in their plans this year and they don't plan to trade him unless they are blown away with an offer. Here is from their news conference:


Reading between the lines, that suggests that the 49ers agree with you. JG is not worth a first. So since they don't want to trade him, a team would have to overpay to move them off their stance that they don't plan on trading JG this year, i.e. offering them a 1st round pick.

Bottom line is I think Pats fans will need to accept that JG is not going to be their QB this year. Next year they may get him for free if he gets cut (which means another year of being injured or playing poorly), or based on another successful year, probably having the same debate on whether he is worth a 1st or 2nd round pick.

He's going to be free next year whether he plays great or not. You really think the 49ers are gonna keep Jimmy at $25million and sit the rookie for another year when they just mortgaged their future on the kid? This isn't a late first rounder like Jordan love. This is a #3 pick whom they invested 3 firsts and a third in.

Even if they keep him this year he's getting released after the season. Teams know it. His trade value is only going to go down no matter how he plays.
 
He's going to be free next year whether he plays great or not. You really think the 49ers are gonna keep Jimmy at $25million and sit the rookie for another year when they just mortgaged their future on the kid? This isn't a late first rounder like Jordan love. This is a #3 pick whom they invested 3 firsts and a third in.

Even if they keep him this year he's getting released after the season. Teams know it. His trade value is only going to go down no matter how he plays.
I agree that next year 49ers will have to either cut or trade JG. It doesn't make much sense to sit a rookie for 2 years, and if they did, it probably means they made a mistake on who they drafted. But I think you are wrong that JG won't have any trade value next year, regardless of how he plays. If he plays a full 17 game regular season without injury, and leads them deep into the playoffs, he will have value. If only one team is interested in JG, then yeah they are better off just waiting for him to be cut, however if he plays well enough he can get 2 or more teams interested, at which point it becomes a trade scenario. As a point of comparison, pre-scandal Deshaun Watson made it pretty clear that he wasn't going to play for the Texans any more. That didn't mean he had no trade value.
 

cmasspatsfan

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
I'm not sure I would even give up a second for him but maybe being back here with BB will help him improve, no way a 1st, 49ers are just posturing right now.
 

50-yard-line

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
last week he wasnt available, now its for a #1. in a couple weeks it will be a #2. Given his injury history, Jimmy just isnt worth a 1st rounder. Maybe we should stop treating the super bowl year as the norm, and the injury years as the outlier and start treating the super bowl year as the outlier. And as much as we hear "but he brought them to a superbowl!" it isnt exactly the case. his stats in that superbowl run were pretty poor:

View attachment 31893

Those stats are pretty poor. Those stats show someone that was dragged to a superbowl behind a great running game and defense. 2 TD's and 3 interceptions. 8 total passes in the NFCCG. Now, thats not to say I dont want him back here. I think he fits our offense perfectly and has higher upside than Cam newton as hes a better passer.

But people are making Jimmy G out to be this elite QB that we should trade #15 for.
At this time in the NFL, "elite" isn't required for a 1st-round pick at the QB position. "Elite" QBs cost 3 or 4 of those +. A serviceable QB will cost you that in the NFL.
 

Deus Irae

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
PatsFans.com Supporter
At this time in the NFL, "elite" isn't required for a 1st-round pick at the QB position. "Elite" QBs cost 3 or 4 of those +. A serviceable QB will cost you that in the NFL.
You may be right, as I haven't done the research. Which merely serviceable QBs, outside of panic situations (starter down late in offseason, or during seasons, for example) have commanded 1st round picks, and is that happening more or less often than merely serviceable QBs commanding less than a 1st round pick?
 

50-yard-line

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
You may be right, as I haven't done the research. Which merely serviceable QBs, outside of panic situations (starter down late in offseason, or during seasons, for example) have commanded 1st round picks, and is that happening more or less often than merely serviceable QBs commanding less than a 1st round pick?
I guess the quetion is: Is Jimmy a Cousins (not the DW Toys type) or a Trubisky?
 

Lansdowne

In the Starting Line-Up
Looking at some historic QB trades that happened during offseason:

In 2002, NE traded Bledsoe to BUF for a 2003 1st round pick

In 2006, MIN traded Culpepper to MIA for a 2006 2nd round pick

In 2008, GB traded Favre to NYJ for a 2009 4th round pick

In 2009, DEN traded Cutler and a 2009 5th to CHI for a 2009 1st and 3rd, a 2010 1st, and Orton

In 2009, NE traded Cassel and Vrabel to KC for

In 2010, PHI traded McNabb to WAS for a 2010 2nd round pick and 2011 4th round pick

In 2019, MIA traded Tannehill and 2019 6th to TEN for 2020 4th and 2019 7th
 
Um, not sure what you are saying. I don't tend to watch press conferences by players or coaches. It appears you are trying to show the Super Bowl video where JG overthrew an open Sanders near the end of the SB that could have been the difference between losing and winning. I know it well. I suppose the implication is that JG is a bad QB, so why are the 49ers asking for a first? The reverse is if JG is a bad QB why are you trying to trade for him?
 

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