OT: Dolphins Owner Steven Ross Suspended, Picks Forfeited, For Tampering With Brady, Payton

[XLIX]

Indeed… Stokoe does not have even a segment of spine in his entire body… How the **** can he sit up straight on the toilet when he takes his daily dump?

Or when he sits on the toilet to pee….

 

[StanleyGrogan]

“Clearly”.

The only reason tanking didn't happen is because Flores refused. That's not the issue. The issue is that tanking was clearly supposed to happen.(Based on Flores version of events)

 

[Ring 6]

Like Brady's a puppet?... LOL! What you're saying IS totally ridiculous. Brady negotiated with New England for years with Brady coming out on the short end of the stick. Brady's demise was being talked up as early as 2014 (before Brady won 3 more SB MVPs). Brady openly pleaded with the press to question the Krafts about his contract during the final negotiation. After they offered him one last underwhelming contract he agreed to the one year deal with the no franchise clause. All this is what "turned him against his team" and not the subsequent conversations with Miami. Your argument entirely collapses when you consider Brady did NOT sign with Miami, so obviously he wasn't invested in working with them at that time.


Makes no sense because it didn't happen that way. How much of that supposed money was guaranteed or tied to incentives? You don't have the details of that unconfirmed contract offer. We know what his final actual contracts were... incentive laden in 2018 with a supporting cast unworthy of the incentive targets and the one-year farewell deal in 2019.


The team overpaid Devin McCourty heading into the 2020 season with a two-year $23 mil contract. They also inexplicably franchised Joe Thuney at a whopping $15 mil. That's already a hefty chunk of what would have been needed to retain Brady. There are always several opportunities to shuffle cap money around. The hypotheticals become too many which is why the "dumbass approach" is easier. None of these scenarios are actually happening... it's just interesting to say plug player X into team Y and speculate on the outcome. They win the division in 2020 and 2021 with Brady. By they I mean nearly every team that didn't a division in 2020 or 2021 (Jets, Jaguars, Lions and Giants excluded... probably).

You have your facts wrong.
How was Brady “coming up on the short end”? He was one of the few highest paid players in the league willingly taking less to help build a team that went to 8 straight AFGCCG, 5 SBs in those 8 years, 4 in the last 5 winning 3 of them.
In 2016 Brady with one year left on his contract, agreed to a 2 year extension for 41 mill taking him through 2019. He was fine with that deal.
In 2019 the Patriots came back with the exact same scenario, this time adding 2 years and 53 million. Why suddenly is this unacceptable, and insulting? The patriots took the exact same approach but increased the amount from what they had done 2 years prior.
What changed? The Dolphins tampered. I don’t know what you mean by puppet but when it is proven that a division opponent was tampering and purportedly offering ownership and suddenly for the first time ever Brady makes comments like. “I’m jjust an employee” “I just want to be appreciated” and “I’m the most miserable 8-0 qb” and turns down the exact and contract he agreed to before clearly they got through to him.

Rather than taking an additional 2/53 extension Brady sign a 2 year extension that has void years, gets an extra 9 mill for the 2019 season and the team forfeits the right to franchise. This happened in August WHEN THE DOLPHINS WERE TAMPERING. Two things here. If the Patriots treated him so poorly why hand him an extra 9 mill for the year he is already under contract and give away rights they don’t have to? And what did Brady threaten to get them to do that and how much was that influenced by the tampering?

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So when you ask how did tampering affect the Patriots, well the tampering happened while they were trying to extend Brady and that ended up with them gifting Brady an extra 9 mill and giving away rights. That’s a big impact.

You ask how much was guaranteed who cares? The 2021 money being guaranteed would only matter if Brady were cut after 2020. That wasn’t happening. And guess what, if it did, he would make more money in the broadcast booth. Are you honestly saying Tom Brady left because he demanded 25 mill from the Patriots in 2021 in the event they no longer wanted him and no other team did either? Really? If I believe you, my opinion of him goes down because that’s just stupid.

If you lose McCourty and Thuney in addition to the other players lost then you are not improving upon the team that limped to the end of 2019. You void sign anyone by cutting a bunch of players. That doesn’t improve your team. So at least you admit keeping Brady would have required FURTHER SUBTRACTION from the 2019 unacceptable team.

Finally, you cannot spend 50 million on Brady in hindsight and say you are just plugging him into the same team that it took that 50 million to build.
At least we agree ignoring that is a dumbass approach. And there are zero opportunities to “shuffle 50 mill around”.

 

[Ring 6]

Very interesting fact I discovered on this topic.
At the exact time Brady was rejecting a 2 year 53 million extension (to later gloriously get honored by the bucs with 50 mill for the same 2 years) Miami was tampering.
Brady instead negotiated the following
I will stay zero more years
You will forfeit your rights to tag me
I will get an extra 9 million for the year I am already under contract

Either 1) Brady threatened to hold out so the Patriots had to hand him that (caused by tampering clearly) or 2) the Patriots gave him that because there was an understanding they would sign another deal next year. Brady proceeded to negotiate with Miami while under that contract. He accepted/extorted an extra 9 mill to while negotiating with a rival team.
No other scenario could make sense as to why the Patriots gave him more money for no more years and forfeited their rights.

This conspiracy by the Dolphins may be more egregious than if they ranked.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Brady threatened to hold out so the Patriots had to hand him that (caused by tampering clearly)

I think he was going to hold out and they appeased him.

I'm not sure the discussions w MIA gave Tom the intestinal fortitude to potentially hold out as I believe he was already at his wits end here but it certainly didn't help the NEP.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I think he was going to hold out and they appeased him.

I'm not sure the discussions w MIA gave Tom the intestinal fortitude to potentially hold out as I believe he was already at his wits end here but it certainly didn't help the NEP.

Brady wanted out of NE for multiple reasons, the primary reason being Bill's banishment of Guerrero from the team's facilities. I don't think money was the real issue.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Brady wanted out of NE for multiple reasons, the primary reason being Bill's banishment of Guerrero from the team's facilities. I don't think money was the real issue.

Money was not the reason he left but the contract holdout was leverage to get BB/Bob to be more "appreciative".

 

[Triumph]

Top 3 traitors of all time
1. Judas Iscariot
2. Benedict Arnold
3. Tom Brady

-- Chris Simms

Some Pats fans still adore Tom Baby.

F him and his movie.

 

[Triumph]

Starting a 2020 version of Cam Newton defines "tanking."

In fairness to cAm NeWtON the cupboards were bare at WR and TE.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Some Pats fans still adore Tom Baby.

F him and his movie.

I can see fans having loyalty to Tom over the team. I get that.

But those who defend/justify his actions are clearly compromised ethically.

 

[Wozzy]

In fairness to cAm NeWtON the cupboards were bare at WR and TE.

Cam sucked here, he was complete toast.

He went to Carolina with DJ Moore, Robby Anderson, Christian McCaffrey, even Ian Thomas is a serviceable TE... and he still sucked.

 

[Wozzy]

Indeed. You can't imagine the level of ignorance out there amongst the Brady haters.

Timmy haters.... another fictional boogeyman that doesn't exist except fans from other teams.

 

[XLIX]

Timmy haters.... another fictional boogeyman that doesn't exist except fans from other teams.

no, really.... explain to us all how you're not a hater when, for some reason known but to God, you go out of your way to always refer to him as "Timmy"....

(and then after that maybe you can explain to us all how the Patriots didn't win the division in 2019.... that's one I'd really like to hear)

 

[Triumph]

Cam sucked here, he was complete toast.

He went to Carolina with DJ Moore, Robby Anderson, Christian McCaffrey, even Ian Thomas is a serviceable TE... and he still sucked.

McCafferty lasted 2 games last season before getting hurt. His 3rd game amounted to 31 rushing yards. MIA as usual.

The only really good player is DJ Moore.Ian Thomas and Robbie Anderson are nothing but Jags.

 

[Triumph]

I can see fans having loyalty to Tom over the team. I get that.

But those who defend/justify his actions are clearly compromised ethically.

For all we know it was Tom Baby who contacted the Dolpins first.

Imagine Baby being inducted in the Pat's HOF and having part ownership of the Miami Dolphins.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

If you don’t see the wrong Brady has done here, you are not a Pats fan…

 

[Steve102]

Brady is much more mercenary than Revis is. He just does it in a polite manner, through manipulative marketing tactics that sell people an image they'll never achieve, and then ultimately feel worse about themselves. That's what Giselle is all about and she's taught him well. Revis is at least honest and transparent about it. People fall for Brady marketing stuff and don't even know what's happened to them.

I'm a bit disappointed in Brady because he made that choice years ago, but not terribly. He just jumped in to a very strong river current. "Hate the system, not the playa" is legitimate here.

Interesting take on the guy, really.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

For all we know it was Tom Baby who contacted the Dolpins first.

Imagine Baby being inducted in the Pat's HOF and having part ownership of the Miami Dolphins.

Alex, I'll take things that haven't happened and won't happen for $500 please.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Alex, I'll take things that haven't happened and won't happen for $500 please.

I think it's possible.

Beal is on the board for TB12.

Those two are pals and partners.

It is absolutely possible TB12 had a below-board discussion over a Mich Ultra and avocado salad with Beal and floated the possibility of joining MIA after the 2019 season OR work out a trade for 2019.

Beal ran with the possibilities and went to Ross.

 

[crawhammer]

If you lose McCourty and Thuney in addition to the other players lost then you are not improving upon the team that limped to the end of 2019.

McCourty is overrated. After he quickly flamed out as a CB in the NFL he got banished to deep center for the remainder of his career. Thuney also overrated... never a top 5 G... that franchise tag was one of the dumbest moves ever. Their money would have been much better serviced in a Brady contract.

Very interesting fact I discovered on this topic.
At the exact time Brady was rejecting a 2 year 53 million extension (to later gloriously get honored by the bucs with 50 mill for the same 2 years) Miami was tampering.
Brady instead negotiated the following
I will stay zero more years
You will forfeit your rights to tag me
I will get an extra 9 million for the year I am already under contract

Either 1) Brady threatened to hold out so the Patriots had to hand him that (caused by tampering clearly) or 2) the Patriots gave him that because there was an understanding they would sign another deal next year. Brady proceeded to negotiate with Miami while under that contract. He accepted/extorted an extra 9 mill to while negotiating with a rival team.
No other scenario could make sense as to why the Patriots gave him more money for no more years and forfeited their rights.

This conspiracy by the Dolphins may be more egregious than if they ranked.

What sense does it make that Brady would threaten to hold out the 2019 season because he accepted phone calls from Miami? Zero sense. If he even in fact "threatened to hold out" then it was because he didn't want to play under another incentive laden contract... period, end of story, nothing else to it. There's not even any confirmation that Brady had taken calls from Miami before signing his final contract with New England.

Brady wanted the franchise tag clause because he didn't want to play under the franchise tag... he wanted a lower term commitment and New England wasn't offering... what proof do you have that Brady "rejected a 2-year $53 mil contract offer"? Show me the details of this supposed contract offer (guaranteed money, etc.).

I'm at the same conclusion... Brady's conversations with Miami had no impact on the 2019 season... therefore I don't care even 1% that he talked to Miami, especially considering that he blew them off and signed with Tampa Bay.

If you don’t see the wrong Brady has done here, you are not a Pats fan…

Oh please with this rubbish. You're seeing it on this very forum... Pats fans defending Brady. You in particular compulsively ridicule Brady, which is pretty odd for a supposed diehard Pats fan. He gave you the best 20 years of your fandom. His relationship with the team soured for many reasons (contracts, Guerrero, declining roster, Belichick fatigue) so he sought employment elsewhere. It's worked out perfectly for Brady and New England still has Belichick and their next franchise quarterback.