Oficial Post Game Thread- Pats beat the Cardinals

[Bradybranch]

This is a bad take. If you followed the Giants for any length of time you would realize they weren’t tanking. They deluded themselves that they could win with Eli and legit said **** like “we are building around Eli”. They had the 2nd overall pick in one of the best QB prospect drafts in a decade and they picked a running back.

That should tell you a lot.

They were not trying to rebuild until maybe last year when they finally gave up on Eli. And even then they thought Jones was the new guy.

Look at a team like Cardinals or 49’ers that we’re good to start last decade then did a complete tear down.

The Browns are just incompetent. They have a loaded roster and still can barely win

And they still took a QB #6 overall, who they are stuck with, who will never win a SB for them, so no they are a great example of why it's a bad take to say losing helps the future.

 

[lancerman]

Everyone gives Cam the credit for getting a 1st down, or completing a pass. He did everything he could to blow this game - AGAIN. It was a few fluky plays, and some good D that pulled out this miracle. He's just a wasted opportunity. No one likes Hoyer, but he can manage a game, and spread the ball. No one trusts Stidham, but he's never been given 1st team reps and a game plan. Does anyone think one of these guys can't muster better than 80 YDs and 0TD/2INT. It's insane!

Game managers work when you have good and talented team and you need a steady ship. Hoyer had an abundance of talent in Houston and couldn’t win.

The difference is Cam creates opportunities running and defenses at least respect that. Every defense that player Stidham has tee’d off on him.

 

[jah]

Everyone gives Cam the credit for getting a 1st down, or completing a pass. He did everything he could to blow this game - AGAIN. It was a few fluky plays, and some good D that pulled out this miracle. He's just a wasted opportunity. No one likes Hoyer, but he can manage a game, and spread the ball. No one trusts Stidham, but he's never been given 1st team reps and a game plan. Does anyone think one of these guys can't muster better than 80 YDs and 0TD/2INT. It's insane!

We gave Hoyer a chance earlier this season to test your thesis. He was absolutely not able to "manage a game". Even Stidham played better than him. I could see benching Cam for Stidham (although I'd disagree with it) but Hoyer? That man shouldn't even be on the roster after what he did in KC.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Nick "Of Time" Folk. It's not quite "Adam and Leave" but it'll do

 

[lancerman]

And they still took a QB #6 overall, who they are stuck with, who will never win a SB for them, so no they are a great example of why it's a bad take to say losing helps the future.

Tanking for a rebuild and being incompetently run are two different things. The Giants were under the illusion they were secretly good and a playmaker away. Hence it led to erratic team building strategy. That’s not what people are saying the Patriots should do. You aren’t making the same argument.

And there are plenty of examples of teams like the Colts in the early 2010’s, the 49’ers or the team we just played that did a complete tear down and came back better on the other side. Ideally you wouldn’t need to do that, but that’s not where the team is at.

 

[jdlboot14]

If we're going to sputter through horrible throws and bad offensive energy and mindless inaccuracy - couldn't we test Stidham? There's no reason for BB to be so committed to Cam. He's not going to be here next year. Actually, if we lose @LAC and @LAR in 4 days, it would make sense to give the 10 days as a transition to Stid for the last 3.

 

[JoeA]

Key question on Cam...

What is he (Cam) costing you for the year, how does he compare to other QB's salaries in the league, and exactly how much is Cam costing the Pats vs all the other QB's in league in wins vs losses?

I would of like to of thought Cam could of helped the Pats, as if you've never read my previous posts, I was never a big Cam fan in at the circus in Carolina, but a QB can't do it all himself.

Since I live in NC and don't get to watch a lot of Pat's games on TV, does Cam blow it for the team, or does he at least keep them in the game?

The reality is if Cam doesn't win a superbowl this year or the next, he's probably no better than Phillip Rivers for what Phillip Rivers is being paid now by the Colts IMO.

I honestly don't know of all the issues with the Pat's on their positions, but just from reading this forum, I'm guessing even if you could get Larwence next year, it's still going to take time to build.

I never liked BB because he always seems to win. If I were all you die hard Pat's fan, I'd trust Bill and not throw him under the bus over a bad year, particularly when you thought that was kind of the year you were going to have.

Sidenote, long time ago I use to get the Cleveland Plain Dealer delivered to my door. Browns are looking good, but knowing Cleavland and their fan base, meltdown at the end of the year and they'll be screaming for everyones head. Thing is I've been around the block... I trust the ownership and relationship that the Patriots have in their organization over the same variables that the Browns have within thier organization.

Say NE gets rid of Cam at the end of this year. Next year with the players NE has, do you trust the QB's you already have now backing up Cam or do you draft or trade for on?

I honestly believe Cam is a tranistional QB for the Pat's right now. Cam wants to play, he's been in the Pat's organization for a short time, added with all this virus crap. I don't bet, but I would trust BB either way if he keeps Cam or lets him go.

That said, I'm not Kraft paying BB salary.

 

[Kontradiction]

Are you talking about 2007 that was over a decade ago, when they won a SB thanks to their defense, not their #1 overall QB?

Who threw to Tyree on that infaWho threw the winning touchdown? Are you really trying to argue this?

How has that been working out for them lately? Maybe their saviors Daniel Jones and Barkley will help bring a SB in fantasy land. Also, Manning never won a playoff game outside of 2007 or 2011, so he was barely even worth the pick

That’s a ridiculous argument. He won them two Super Bowls. Of course he was worth the pick.

The Texans drafted high for years. They have been fielding playoff teams up until this year. The Bills drafted high for years. They’ve been in the postseason since 2017 and have the division lead this year. The Rams drafted high for years. They made the Super Bowl in 2018 and, barring catastrophe, will be back in the postseason this year. The Titans drafted high for years. They went to the AFCCG last year and look poised to make another run this year. The Eagles drafted high for years. They won the Super Bowl in 2017. After Harbaugh left, the 49ers drafted high for a couple of years. They went to the Super Bowl last year and looked tough this year until they fell apart. Prior to Harbaugh, they drafted high for years and built the team who would go to the Super Bowl in 2012. That’s the point. For every Jets, Jags, Bengals reference you want to make, you could simply take a stroll down memory lane in the draft and find teams who drafted in the top 5 and turned it around.

 

[Ring 6]

Game managers work when you have good and talented team and you need a steady ship. Hoyer had an abundance of talent in Houston and couldn’t win.

The difference is Cam creates opportunities running and defenses at least respect that. Every defense that player Stidham has tee’d off on him.

Stidham has played 45 snaps. 20 of them were on mop up duty. I think you have stidham mixed up with someone who has actually played some.

 

[lancerman]

If we're going to sputter through horrible throws and bad offensive energy and mindless inaccuracy - couldn't we test Stidham? There's no reason for BB to be so committed to Cam. He's not going to be here next year. Actually, if we lose @LAC and @LAR in 4 days, it would make sense to give the 10 days as a transition to Stid for the last 3.

There is a reason.... Bill thinks he’s worse. He also has seen live game time multiple times and got first team reps in the off season.

There’s no reason to start someone you don’t believe in simply because the guy ahead of him is struggling

 

[DropKickFlutie]

²²

Gilmore held Hopkins, the best WR in the league, in check. Hardly would call that down.

It might be the literal holding. The one that gave a first down at the goal line.

.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Stidham has played 45 snaps. 20 of them were on mop up duty. I think you have stidham mixed up with someone who has actually played some.

4 INTs in 27 throws is absolutely terrible.

.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Who threw to Tyree on that infaWho threw the winning touchdown? Are you really trying to argue this?


That’s a ridiculous argument. He won them two Super Bowls. Of course he was worth the pick.

The Texans drafted high for years. They have been fielding playoff teams up until this year. The Bills drafted high for years. They’ve been in the postseason since 2017 and have the division lead this year. The Rams drafted high for years. They made the Super Bowl in 2018 and, barring catastrophe, will be back in the postseason this year. The Titans drafted high for years. They went to the AFCCG last year and look poised to make another run this year. The Eagles drafted high for years. They won the Super Bowl in 2017. After Harbaugh left, the 49ers drafted high for a couple of years. They went to the Super Bowl last year and looked tough this year until they fell apart. Prior to Harbaugh, they drafted high for years and built the team who would go to the Super Bowl in 2012. That’s the point. For every Jets, Jags, Bengals reference you want to make, you could simply take a stroll down memory lane in the draft and find teams who drafted in the top 5 and turned it around.

organizations are built from the top down!

what do the Jets, jags, redskins and bengals have in common, terrible ownership!

terrible owners = terrible product on the field!

 

[Bradybranch]

Tanking for a rebuild and being incompetently run are two different things. The Giants were under the illusion they were secretly good and a playmaker away. Hence it led to erratic team building strategy. That’s not what people are saying the Patriots should do. You aren’t making the same argument.

And there are plenty of examples of teams like the Colts in the early 2010’s, the 49’ers or the team we just played that did a complete tear down and came back better on the other side. Ideally you wouldn’t need to do that, but that’s not where the team is at.

The Giants could have had Sam Darnold instead of Barkley, yeah I'm sure that would have launched them into the elite teams. As far as your examples of teams that turned it around, i can show you a bigger list of bottom feeder teams.

²²


It might be the literal holding. The one that gave a first down at the goal line.

.

Ok so give him 60 yards, still a fine game against the best Wr

 

[Kontradiction]

organizations are built from the top down!

what do the Jets, jags, redskins and bengals have in common, terrible ownership!

terrible owners = terrible product on the field!

Exactly. This organization doesn’t have that.

 

[lancerman]

The Giants could have had Sam Darnold instead of Barkley, yeah I'm sure that would have launched them into the elite teams. As far as your examples of teams that turned it around, i can show you a bigger list of bottom feeder teams.

Ok so give him 60 yards, still a fine game against the best Wr

Giants could have had Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson. They just had to avoid Rosen and Darnold... and quite frankly I think the Jets ruined Darnold

 

[sb1]

If we're going to sputter through horrible throws and bad offensive energy and mindless inaccuracy - couldn't we test Stidham? There's no reason for BB to be so committed to Cam. He's not going to be here next year. Actually, if we lose @LAC and @LAR in 4 days, it would make sense to give the 10 days as a transition to Stid for the last 3.

Stidham has shown nothing to suggest he is an NFL starting QB. Most 4th round pick QB’s aren’t. He is not the future. If the Pats should evaluate anyone it’s Cam - should they sign him to another short term deal as a bridge or bring someone else in? That’s the question they need to figure out as they play out the string.

 

[Froob]

Cam has made some mistakes, I don’t think anybody would deny that but I don’t understand how anybody hates this guy as a person.

Cam has fought for extra yardage, showed up everyday with a positive attitude and busted ass every day for this team. I’d love to see him succeed here.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Hopkins is the best receiver in the game and Murray looked for him all game long!

I think Gilmore did better than most corners do against a beast like Hopkins.

college pride on the line. Clemson vs South Carolina!

 

[Jim Beankie]

We gave Hoyer a chance earlier this season to test your thesis. He was absolutely not able to "manage a game". Even Stidham played better than him. I could see benching Cam for Stidham (although I'd disagree with it) but Hoyer? That man shouldn't even be on the roster after what he did in KC.

The severe underthrow to a wide open Byrd in the End Zone for an INT was pretty bad for Stidham at KC. That being said, I think the fact that we're still alive for the playoffs plays into Cam's still being out there, although today was just really really really ugly from a passing standpoint.

Alright, back to delusion mode - that goal line stand, while not '03 against the Colts in the 4th quarter level, will be fun to watch on the Super Bowl DVD.