NFL executives offer their take on the Patriots and the trade possibilities for Jimmy Garoppolo

[FourierSeries]

JAG was not running the full playbook with the full responsibilities.

Not true at all. They ran the same offense that they run with Brady in the lineup. On top of that, he was making some great reads too.

 

[sb1]

If a team is moronic enough to offer even one first rounder for Garoppolo never mind two the Pats need to be all over it.

Plus of course if he is going to be great why get rid of him at all?

 

[Danger Zone]

I'm one of the most avid Tommy LomBrady fans there is, but even I don't feel that he should get the choice to do whatever he wants. If the team thought it was the best to move him and keep Garoppolo, I would understand. I think the team needs to look forward not back.

My thoughts on the matter are that Brady deserves to retire here if that's what he wants to do and he deserves the right to suck for a year before being replaced.

Just my opinion.

 

[Rob0729]

You're ignoring the most important thing. The coaching staff must have a lot of confidence in his ability to master a very complex offense, his football IQ, and his overall level of ability if they let him run the same offense that Brady has run for years.

Of course you can't be sure of how he'll perform several years from now, but if the team has confidence in him, there's a reason for that. People were calling for Brady to be traded back in 2001 after he had several full games under his belt, for the exact same reasons. I'm not saying Jimmy will be anything close to what Brady is, but to completely dismiss his ability and the intangibles he possesses is silly. By all accounts he's a hard worker, he has a high football IQ, and he has shown the composure of a veteran in the pocket.

Those QBs you mentioned ran very simple offenses and got by mostly on pure athletic ability in their first year. It's not a good comparison.

I am not ignoring anything. This is his third year in the system. He should know the offense. If they are paring it down at this point, I would have concerns about him as even a back up. And they did modify the offense for him.

The Patriots pared down the offense for Matt Cassel because of his physical limitations, not his inability to run the offense. The guy just didn't have the arm that Brady or Garoppolo have.

But we don't know if Garoppolo can read complex DEFENSES. Neither Arizona nor Miami really threw much that was exotic at him. In fact, I would argue that neither team respected him and almost dared the Pats to pass. Again, neither team made him go through his progressions all that much. Most of the time his first read was wide open.

Being able to run this offense isn't the question. It is whether he can run it well over a long term.

 

[PrairiePat]

Have to agree with Rob here - JG looked good in 2 games. How many QBs have there been recently who looked good for even a season before hitting the wall? He may be a future HOFer, but it's still a big risk to predict that on such a small sample size.

IF they decide to trade him, I'd be thrilled if they got a 1st rounder for him. Anything else is gravy until we see more of him.

 

[Rob0729]

Not true at all. They ran the same offense that they run with Brady in the lineup. On top of that, he was making some great reads too.

They modified the offense for him. All you have to do is look at how run oriented they were with him vs. they are with Brady.

To say it was the exact same offense is not true. They ran a large portion of the offense, but not everything.

He made a lot of great reads, but a lot of the time he had wide open receivers.

 

[carmelo15]

Trade Jimmy G to 49ers for there 1st (top 10) and a future 2nd. Allows us to keep developing Brissett and the GOAT can play 2-4 more years

 

[aluminum seats]

They also forget that Miami was starting to figure him out a bit and his last few drives were not nearly as impressive.

I pretty much agree with your overall caution about JG--it's silly not to be cautious about a guy who's played a game and a half. Pig in a poke! But I do have a quibble with this point, which you've made a few times.

I don't think you can really say Miami was "starting to figure him out." His first three drives went for TDs and he had 3 incompletions total on them, as Miami went 3 & out three times. The Pats would have won about a 100 to nothing if that kept up, so it's obviously not sustainable.

On the next Pats' drive he had a couple of incompletions and the Pats punted. Happenstance. The next two drives, he drove the Pats to the Miami 42, first down, and Amendola fumbled; and on the drive he got hurt, they were on the Miami 21, first down. He had a couple of incompletions on each drive, but was still leading the team down the field.

Again, it’s not even a full game, all caveats apply. But the “figuring him out” thing seems like a misread.

 

[FourierSeries]

They modified the offense for him. All you have to do is look at how run oriented they were with him vs. they are with Brady.

To say it was the exact same offense is not true. They ran a large portion of the offense, but not everything.

He made a lot of great reads, but a lot of the time he had wide open receivers.

They didn't have to simplify or reduce the offense at all for him. Here is a good breakdown of the Arizona game: Patriots didn't dumb down offense for Garoppolo

His pre-snap reads were on point, too. There are a few examples, but probably my favorite: Jimmy Garoppolo’s 3rd touchdown pass shows his total command of the offense

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

BTW just for people who don't know here is a draft value chart

Draft Trade Chart | ProFootballTalk

3000 for instance is either the first overall pick (I would look to trade it for multiple first) or 3 #16 overall picks.

Assuming Cleveland get #1 or #2 That could make sense for a partner with potential sweeteners. A team from 3-10 is harder to work out but possible. In the mid rounds IDK who would be there but one of those teams could use a QB I am sure.

Keep in mind Cleveland has two first rounders in the 2017 draft, their own (likely to be #1 or 2) and Philadelphia's from the Wentz trade likely to be middle of the pack.. Put another way, it could be 2700 points and 1000 points or enough to make the team jump if they think JAG isn't the long term answer or think even if they feel he is their future...

 

[luuked]

And when people get a handle on his capabilities, he could be awful.

People keep drooling over his performance during the Miami game, but ignore the fact that Miami played off the receivers and let them run their timing routes allowing Garoppolo to hit his first read most of the time in stride. They also forget that Miami was starting to figure him out a bit and his last few drives were not nearly as impressive.

There are still a lot of questions about Garoppolo that are huge question marks. What can he do when teams figure him out and start knocking his receivers off their timing routes and making him hold onto the ball more (that has been an issue for him where when he does hold onto the ball, he holds on way too long)? Is he durable enough to withstand the beating he is going to get? What will he do if the team is down and he has to carry the offense and the team?

We have no idea what this guy is. We have seen a lot of QBs who look great right off the bat and turn into scrubs (Matt Schaub, Josh Freeman, Colin Kaepernick, etc.). And we are going to judge Garoppolo after less than six quarters?

I think you nailed it Rob. His trade value will never be higher than it is now.

Essentially, JG got to show off most of his positives and wasn't put into a situation where one of his flaws would shine through. We don't know how mentally tough he is when adversity comes knocking. He could have a complete mental meltdown (e.g. Hoyer) after his first stupid INT for all we know. Of course he could also turn out to have ice in his veins and shake those things off. Point is anything beyond what we have seen in those 1.5 games is pure speculation.

But that's the beauty of the situation.. the only thing certain because it's on film are mostly positives which set the bar pretty high..

 

[Deus Irae]

Not true at all. They ran the same offense that they run with Brady in the lineup. On top of that, he was making some great reads too.

It's absolutely true.

 

[aluminum seats]

They modified the offense for him. All you have to do is look at how run oriented they were with him vs. they are with Brady.

Gotta quibble with that too. He threw it 26 times with a few minutes left in the second quarter. Would have finished with more than Brady's 40 attempts against Cleveland.

 

[luuked]

I prefer to use draft value points cause even though i don't believe in them 100% it is a much clearer mathematical indicator of value then just saying "1st" or "2 1st"

I have said before and will say again. 3000 draft value points is my starting spot. I would never go below that and likely would want more to feel comfortable making any deal... Really I'd be looking for 4000.

If a team does not want to pay it I will happily keep him. The last thing i want to do is trade him for less value then that and we let what turns out to be a 10+ year franchise QB go for horrible value.

BTW just for people who don't know here is a draft value chart

Draft Trade Chart | ProFootballTalk

3000 for instance is either the first overall pick (I would look to trade it for multiple first) or 3 #16 overall picks.

Assuming Cleveland get #1 or #2 That could make sense for a partner with potential sweeteners. A team from 3-10 is harder to work out but possible. In the mid rounds IDK who would be there but one of those teams could use a QB I am sure.

On paper I like the draft value charts but I feel like they need to be normalized each year to reflect the depth of each years draft. If you have a very top heavy draft with not much depth then those early picks are more valuable than in other years.

Obviously as a starting point its nice..

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Have to agree with Rob here - JG looked good in 2 games. How many QBs have there been recently who looked good for even a season before hitting the wall? He may be a future HOFer, but it's still a big risk to predict that on such a small sample size.

IF they decide to trade him, I'd be thrilled if they got a 1st rounder for him. Anything else is gravy until we see more of him.

Agreed. Although I do disagree with one point Rob made, which is that Jimmy did lead the team on a comeback game-winning drive, so he has shown that capability (although again, not any consistency here).

Matt Flynn had 2 starts and looked great. He then signed a huge contract with the Seahawks. He wound up never even starting a game for them, and is out of the league now. There are other examples, although not as extreme.

I think the above all shows 1) it's way too early to make any definitive statement on Garappolo other than the fact that he looked good in limited playing time, and 2) teams historically are willing to pay big despite the limited playing time. I'd love to get a 1st rounder and call it a day, and hope Brissett can continue to grow in the system this offseason.

 

[IllegalContact]

How do you know that? We have no idea if this guy is going to be a legitimate starter or he is a flash in the pan. People are so overrating his performance over 6 quarters. He was good, not great vs. Arizona and we have found out that the Dolphins' defense is awful.

If someone if willing to give a sweatheart deal for Garoppola, I am betting Belichick jumps at it.

well....people aren't having a problem drooling over Roberts in garbage time

those 6 quarters Jimmy had produced the best QBR of the season and did not show a single thing that he MIGHT NOT be that guy

right now, besides Brady, he is the only one ANYWHERE who has shown he can be effective here

 

[1960Pats]

My thoughts on the matter are that Brady deserves to retire here if that's what he wants to do and he deserves the right to suck for a year before being replaced.

Just my opinion.

An opinion that I shared with you until recently. Now I want what's best for the team. If sending Brady off to SF for some picks and having JG take over is the decision, then I'm all in with that.

 

[aluminum seats]

An opinion that I shared with you until recently. Now I want what's best for the team. If sending Brady off to SF for some picks and having JG take over is the decision, then I'm all in with that.

Did Brady make a move on your wife or something?

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Those advocating to trade Garoppolo sure as hell better have someone in mind to replace Brady...quarterbacks don't grow on trees. And drafting QBs is never a sure thing.

 

[Rob0729]

well....people aren't having a problem drooling over Roberts in garbage time

those 6 quarters Jimmy had produced the best QBR of the season and did not show a single thing that he MIGHT NOT be that guy

right now, besides Brady, he is the only one ANYWHERE who has shown he can be effective here

Who have the Pats had at QB under Brady? Cassel? He was a guy who hadn't thrown a ball in a real game not in a blow out since high school.

Matt Cassel showed he could be a decent starter in this offense when he clearly is a very limited QB. So let's not go overboard.