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One-If-By-Sea

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
No, of course that is not the case.

It's just that at that point the number of game-changers are few and far between, unless you have an already very good team that is looking for one or two veteran rentals that will put you over the top.

Possibly we could have spent Thuney's $14M franchise tag somewhere else? A more effective use of that money in FA?
 

jmt57

Moderator
Staff member
Possibly we could have spent Thuney's $14M franchise tag somewhere else? A more effective use of that money in FA?
Definitely agree. A franchise tag of that amount is never a good resource of cap space.

I am going to guess it was a way to assuage Thuney with a very healthy pay day, while extending negotiations. Unless I am missing something it does not make sense to spend that kind of money on a guard in a non-competitive year, and then let him walk.
 

One-If-By-Sea

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Definitely agree. A franchise tag of that amount is never a good resource of cap space.

I am going to guess it was a way to assuage Thuney with a very healthy pay day, while extending negotiations. Unless I am missing something it does not make sense to spend that kind of money on a guard in a non-competitive year, and then let him walk.

My point was that we did not have any cap space because we paid DMAC $10M and Thuney $14M with our last $25M in cap space. I like the DMAC signing but not sure we could not have spent the Thuney money better in FA.
 

Ochmed Jones

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Yeah, and the Gilmore contract extension/upgrade had/still has me confused as well.

First, bb loves defensive backs. Gilmore’s contract says he gets 7 million in hard currency next season.

Second, some people think we will have to pony up additional dollars for the 2021 season as we have done previously!
 

mgteich

PatsFans.com Veteran
PatsFans.com Supporter
QB cap hit depends on if we go the FA route or the draft. If it’s the latter
the cap hit wouldn’t be too bad. Using Herbert for example his cap hit is around 4 mil this and gradually goes up to 8 mil by year 4.
I would expect both a free agent QB and a 1st or 2nd rounder.
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member
Considering how many FA’s we have ourselves, it’s not a TON of money to play with. I know it’s the same story around the rest of the league but some the Pats guys sadly don’t have replacements on the roster if we don’t bring them back.

-Gonna be paying more for a QB next year.
-Guy is a FA.
-J.C. is going to get a solid bump in pay.
-Butler is a FA.
-White is a FA. We have a solid slate of RB’s but not a single one has proven to do what he can do.
-Andrews may not be perfect, but he has proven to be a very solid C and Capt. Someone is going to offer him some money.
-Justin Bethel too!
Next you have to think about the guys that took the year off and worry about them. Each of them for the most part is making a decent chunk of change. If they decide to come back, how’s the performance? A year off do good or poorly for them? You also have to think about the guys that could retire. The McCourty Bros, Slater, and again, all the starters that took the year off. If there is any year that Bill needs to be 100% on point, it’s this upcoming offseason. Every move has to be excellent if the organization wants to keep moving forward with a full rebuild.
Of course it’s a TON of money.
 

Wilfork#75

In the Starting Line-Up
I was going to start a new thread but this seems to fit here.

This is going to be a very different off season than we have ever seen before for the Pats and BB because we’ve never been in this position before. I think it’s time to accept we are in a complete rebuild. We no longer have the talent or the key pieces in place to just re-tool, it’s time to start again from scratch. It was inevitable after two decades of dominance but it’s still an unfamiliar position to be in.

The good news though is that after a re-set year in 2020 we are in a strong position to re-build and rebound quite quickly. We might not be legitimate Super Bowl contenders in 2021 with teams like KC or Buffalo, but we look to be in a strong position to build for the next decade of success.

It’s well documented that the Pats have around $60mil in cap space for 2021 with the potential for more through cuts/trades/retirements. We have to make some hard decisions of who is going to be a part of the future. It’s time to let go of some of the old guard and bring in a new wave of talent. The retirements/release of Hightower, Cannon and Edelman, along with a trade of Gilmore put us at around $90mil in cap space. They have all been great players for the Pats but aren’t part of our long term future.

I expect Belichick to be extremely aggressive in free agency because for the first time he has massive flexibility. There are also a number of factors that are going to shape free agency league wide which haven’t been discussed much:
  • If the 2021 cap is set at the floor of $176 million, that will wipe out over $1billion of value league wide from the projected cap of $210 million before Covid
  • The market will be heavily suppressed making it the perfect time to have a lot of cap space. A lot of teams will have to shed payroll to get under the cap making it a buyers market.
  • The very top of the market probably won’t be impacted too much but the middle and bottom of the market will see some great value. This will allow us to be aggressive going after the top tier FA while being able to stretch out the remaining cap space to fill out the rest of the roster
  • The Pats likely won’t be paying top of the market money ($30+ million per year) to a QB over the next few seasons. This allows us to spend more at other positions over the short term.
  • The NFL media rights all expire over the next two years or so and are expected to increase quite considerably. Some project the ESPN deal could increase 50% from $2billion to $3billion per year. While the rights fee for other 3 Networks could double to around $2billion per year each.
  • Even with the aftermath of Covid, these massive increases to the Media rights deal should significantly increase the salary cap in starting in 2023/24. This should make teams feel a lot more comfortable signing long term deals and backloading contracts. Now is the time to sign long term deals because when the market re-sets in 2 years time these contracts will look like bargains.
  • One of the products of mediocre drafting the past several years means the Pats won’t have a lot of players commanding big money extensions over the next few seasons. That makes spending in the free agent market a much easier proposition.
With a huge amount of cap space, a suppressed market and the ability to backload contracts when the cap is expected to explode in 2 years time, I see no reason for the Pats to not be aggressive. I’m fact I believe it’s a necessity. Buffalo has already taken over as the team to beat in the AFCE, the Dolphins and Jets both have a huge amount of cap space and draft capital. If we don’t take advantage of our cap space and the market conditions now, we could be left behind as the #4 team in the AFCE.
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member
Definitely agree. A franchise tag of that amount is never a good resource of cap space.

I am going to guess it was a way to assuage Thuney with a very healthy pay day, while extending negotiations. Unless I am missing something it does not make sense to spend that kind of money on a guard in a non-competitive year, and then let him walk.
Rumors are that it was to make Brady happy.
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member
I was going to start a new thread but this seems to fit here.

This is going to be a very different off season than we have ever seen before for the Pats and BB because we’ve never been in this position before. I think it’s time to accept we are in a complete rebuild. We no longer have the talent or the key pieces in place to just re-tool, it’s time to start again from scratch. It was inevitable after two decades of dominance but it’s still an unfamiliar position to be in.

The good news though is that after a re-set year in 2020 we are in a strong position to re-build and rebound quite quickly. We might not be legitimate Super Bowl contenders in 2021 with teams like KC or Buffalo, but we look to be in a strong position to build for the next decade of success.

It’s well documented that the Pats have around $60mil in cap space for 2021 with the potential for more through cuts/trades/retirements. We have to make some hard decisions of who is going to be a part of the future. It’s time to let go of some of the old guard and bring in a new wave of talent. The retirements/release of Hightower, Cannon and Edelman, along with a trade of Gilmore put us at around $90mil in cap space. They have all been great players for the Pats but aren’t part of our long term future.

I expect Belichick to be extremely aggressive in free agency because for the first time he has massive flexibility. There are also a number of factors that are going to shape free agency league wide which haven’t been discussed much:
  • If the 2021 cap is set at the floor of $176 million, that will wipe out over $1billion of value league wide from the projected cap of $210 million before Covid
  • The market will be heavily suppressed making it the perfect time to have a lot of cap space. A lot of teams will have to shed payroll to get under the cap making it a buyers market.
  • The very top of the market probably won’t be impacted too much but the middle and bottom of the market will see some great value. This will allow us to be aggressive going after the top tier FA while being able to stretch out the remaining cap space to fill out the rest of the roster
  • The Pats likely won’t be paying top of the market money ($30+ million per year) to a QB over the next few seasons. This allows us to spend more at other positions over the short term.
  • The NFL media rights all expire over the next two years or so and are expected to increase quite considerably. Some project the ESPN deal could increase 50% from $2billion to $3billion per year. While the rights fee for other 3 Networks could double to around $2billion per year each.
  • Even with the aftermath of Covid, these massive increases to the Media rights deal should significantly increase the salary cap in starting in 2023/24. This should make teams feel a lot more comfortable signing long term deals and backloading contracts. Now is the time to sign long term deals because when the market re-sets in 2 years time these contracts will look like bargains.
  • One of the products of mediocre drafting the past several years means the Pats won’t have a lot of players commanding big money extensions over the next few seasons. That makes spending in the free agent market a much easier proposition.
With a huge amount of cap space, a suppressed market and the ability to backload contracts when the cap is expected to explode in 2 years time, I see no reason for the Pats to not be aggressive. I’m fact I believe it’s a necessity. Buffalo has already taken over as the team to beat in the AFCE, the Dolphins and Jets both have a huge amount of cap space and draft capital. If we don’t take advantage of our cap space and the market conditions now, we could be left behind as the #4 team in the AFCE.
The second half of your post is a convincing argument why we should keep excellent players and winners like Hightower Gilmore and Edelman around. Everything this team lacks can be brought in with the cap space and draft picks they have.
 

Wilfork#75

In the Starting Line-Up
The second half of your post is a convincing argument why we should keep excellent players and winners like Hightower Gilmore and Edelman around. Everything this team lacks can be brought in with the cap space and draft picks they have.

I think each of these guys are in a different situation and with some of them we might not have a choice.

I think everyone expects Cannon to retire so that’s an easy one.

Hightower retiring is probably 50-50 right now. I’d love to bring him back for less money but at 31 with an extensive injury history and having just sat out a year I cannot justify a $12.5 mil cap hit. If Hightower isn’t willing to take a pay cut I think a much better option would be someone like Benardrick McKinney who is almost a certain cap casualty in Houston. He is 3 years younger than Hightower and offers very similar leadership and on-field play. He is coming off an injury but you can probably get him significantly cheaper and for more years.

Edelman might also retire. He has given everything to this team and if he does decide to return for another season I think the right thing to do by him would be to let him choose where he wants to finish his career. If he wants to go and chase another ring with Brady and Gronk in Tampa Bay I would let him go. If he wants to return to the Pats for another year I’d welcome him back with open arms.

I don’t think there is any chance Gilmore plays for $7.5mil in 2021. He will demand a new contract and at his age I don’t think he is worth $18mil+. I would trade him, get a pick in return and clear the cap space for players that will be part of our long term plans.
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member
I think each of these guys are in a different situation and with some of them we might not have a choice.

I think everyone expects Cannon to retire so that’s an easy one.

Hightower retiring is probably 50-50 right now. I’d love to bring him back for less money but at 31 with an extensive injury history and having just sat out a year I cannot justify a $12.5 mil cap hit. If Hightower isn’t willing to take a pay cut I think a much better option would be someone like Benardrick McKinney who is almost a certain cap casualty in Houston. He is 3 years younger than Hightower and offers very similar leadership and on-field play. He is coming off an injury but you can probably get him significantly cheaper and for more years.

Edelman might also retire. He has given everything to this team and if he does decide to return for another season I think the right thing to do by him would be to let him choose where he wants to finish his career. If he wants to go and chase another ring with Brady and Gronk in Tampa Bay I would let him go. If he wants to return to the Pats for another year I’d welcome him back with open arms.

I don’t think there is any chance Gilmore plays for $7.5mil in 2021. He will demand a new contract and at his age I don’t think he is worth $18mil+. I would trade him, get a pick in return and clear the cap space for players that will be part of our long term plans.
Hightower is a unique and special player. He impacts everyone else on the field and affects how we scheme every piece of the D. He is worth every penny. McKinney is not close to the versatility hightower gives us. Cannon is probably at the end.
Edelman is still valuable. We are here to win not to let players out of contracts to win elsewhere.
Im not sure what choice Gilmore has, its the contract he signed and he is coming off an injury. KEEPING player in contract yer is smart,letting them ply for the next contract somewhere else is not. I’d rather pay 7 mill more to have him than a bunch of money to no. He is a huge bargain, it would be a bad move to not keep him at that price.
 

Ochmed Jones

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Hightower is a unique and special player. He impacts everyone else on the field and affects how we scheme every piece of the D. He is worth every penny. McKinney is not close to the versatility hightower gives us. Cannon is probably at the end.
Edelman is still valuable. We are here to win not to let players out of contracts to win elsewhere.
Im not sure what choice Gilmore has, its the contract he signed and he is coming off an injury. KEEPING player in contract yer is smart,letting them ply for the next contract somewhere else is not. I’d rather pay 7 mill more to have him than a bunch of money to no. He is a huge bargain, it would be a bad move to not keep him at that price.

you do realize that Hightower and Edelman rarely make it through a 16 game schedule.

at some point, we have to admit they are not the players they used to be!
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member
you do realize that Hightower and Edelman rarely make it through a 16 game schedule.

at some point, we have to admit they are not the players they used to be!
Hightower missed 1 game in 2019 and 1 game in 2018. The last time he played he was every bit the player he has always been and the most important Piece in the #1 defense in the nfl.
 

Tony2046

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
I was going to start a new thread but this seems to fit here.

This is going to be a very different off season than we have ever seen before for the Pats and BB because we’ve never been in this position before. I think it’s time to accept we are in a complete rebuild. We no longer have the talent or the key pieces in place to just re-tool, it’s time to start again from scratch. It was inevitable after two decades of dominance but it’s still an unfamiliar position to be in.

The good news though is that after a re-set year in 2020 we are in a strong position to re-build and rebound quite quickly. We might not be legitimate Super Bowl contenders in 2021 with teams like KC or Buffalo, but we look to be in a strong position to build for the next decade of success.

It’s well documented that the Pats have around $60mil in cap space for 2021 with the potential for more through cuts/trades/retirements. We have to make some hard decisions of who is going to be a part of the future. It’s time to let go of some of the old guard and bring in a new wave of talent. The retirements/release of Hightower, Cannon and Edelman, along with a trade of Gilmore put us at around $90mil in cap space. They have all been great players for the Pats but aren’t part of our long term future.

I expect Belichick to be extremely aggressive in free agency because for the first time he has massive flexibility. There are also a number of factors that are going to shape free agency league wide which haven’t been discussed much:
  • If the 2021 cap is set at the floor of $176 million, that will wipe out over $1billion of value league wide from the projected cap of $210 million before Covid
  • The market will be heavily suppressed making it the perfect time to have a lot of cap space. A lot of teams will have to shed payroll to get under the cap making it a buyers market.
  • The very top of the market probably won’t be impacted too much but the middle and bottom of the market will see some great value. This will allow us to be aggressive going after the top tier FA while being able to stretch out the remaining cap space to fill out the rest of the roster
  • The Pats likely won’t be paying top of the market money ($30+ million per year) to a QB over the next few seasons. This allows us to spend more at other positions over the short term.
  • The NFL media rights all expire over the next two years or so and are expected to increase quite considerably. Some project the ESPN deal could increase 50% from $2billion to $3billion per year. While the rights fee for other 3 Networks could double to around $2billion per year each.
  • Even with the aftermath of Covid, these massive increases to the Media rights deal should significantly increase the salary cap in starting in 2023/24. This should make teams feel a lot more comfortable signing long term deals and backloading contracts. Now is the time to sign long term deals because when the market re-sets in 2 years time these contracts will look like bargains.
  • One of the products of mediocre drafting the past several years means the Pats won’t have a lot of players commanding big money extensions over the next few seasons. That makes spending in the free agent market a much easier proposition.
With a huge amount of cap space, a suppressed market and the ability to backload contracts when the cap is expected to explode in 2 years time, I see no reason for the Pats to not be aggressive. I’m fact I believe it’s a necessity. Buffalo has already taken over as the team to beat in the AFCE, the Dolphins and Jets both have a huge amount of cap space and draft capital. If we don’t take advantage of our cap space and the market conditions now, we could be left behind as the #4 team in the AFCE.

I wonder if players are willing to sign long term contracts in this environment.
 

Patriot Missile

Pro Bowl Player
It just looks like the ticking clock finally broke with free agency. Not sure what the NFL’s fix is going to be to it this year. I can’t remember a year where 20 teams were in the negative.. with 9 teams 18 million over. Thats a lot of tough decisions to make and a lot of free agents looking for work. There may not be a enough suitors to match the salary demands they are looking for.

Not sure of the official number in New England until Miquel releases it, but I’m thinking to myself this offseason has the potential to land a lot of quality players to fill just about every hole on this team. A year where if they want to work they are almost going to have to take a discount. Maybe 2001 all over again.
 

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