Comparing 2021 and 2024 offensive rosters

[UrbanCowboy]

deal!

On second thought, though, with the benefit of hindsight we know that Isaah and Trent were basically soon to quit on the team, so maybe not?

 

[mike_usagisan]

deal!

On second thought, though, with the benefit of hindsight we know that Isaah and Trent were basically soon to quit on the team, so maybe not?

Oh, true. But how many of the current OL do we expect to be on this team longterm?

 

[UrbanCowboy]

Oh, true. But how many of the current OL do we expect to be on this team longterm?

It's vacation ... we can play a little bit

LT: lowe, short term yes... long term backup, swing? (short term there ain't much out there ... I hope we don't reach in the draft or over-spend) - he may make the most sense for another year (ducking)
LG: Sow, yes, although WTF happened to him. hoping it was his injury, cuz he seemed promising
C Strange, yes, kinda liked the idea of trying him at LT, but Center is a need as well
RG: Onwenu, yes, but he need's to go Weight Watchers and get his ass in shape
RT: Wallace, um, er, well, frankly seems like a reach, but maybe

I could see Layden Robinson Jake Andrews hanging around for the long-term

 

[mike_usagisan]

It's vacation ... we can play a little bit

LT: lowe, short term yes... long term backup, swing? (short term there ain't much out there ... I hope we don't reach in the draft or over-spend) - he may make the most sense for another year (ducking)
LG: Sow, yes, although WTF happened to him. hoping it was his injury, cuz he seemed promising
C Strange, yes, kinda liked the idea of trying him at LT, but Center is a need as well
RG: Onwenu, yes, but he need's to go Weight Watchers and get his ass in shape
RT: Wallace, um, er, well, frankly seems like a reach, but maybe

I could see Layden Robinson Jake Andrews hanging around for the long-term

Yeah, I don't disagree with much of that. Not sure about Sow, though. But those also mostly feel like short-term solutions. At some point, we have got to find a LT. Strange at C could go well or it could be a disaster. I really want to see if Jake Andrews can even play. And who knows whether Wallace will work out.

 

[Wozzy]

The problem with most fan (many media) conversations about “talent” is that it often becomes a comparison about weapons.

The biggest difference between the 2021 offense and the 2024 beyond the QB was offensive line talent. The 2021 line was one of the better ones in the AFC, the 2024 one is probably the second worst in the league after the Raiders. Rhamondre, Brissett and Maye made them look better than they were.

Talent, or a lack of it, is not limited to weapons.

 

[signbabybrady]

Well, he didn’t win much the past 5 years

He's won more than anyone the last 100 years lol

 

[Vindicate]

Can't be said enough, even if Maye is the next best in the NFL, none of that matters with how bad our OL is. We may have gotten more used to it, but it should not be lost on us that this OL is truly worse than some college lines. It's atrocious. Remarkably bad. Nothing matters until they improve.

 

[mike_usagisan]

The problem with most fan (many media) conversations about “talent” is that it often becomes a comparison about weapons.

The biggest difference between the 2021 offense and the 2024 beyond the QB was offensive line talent. The 2021 line was one of the better ones in the AFC, the 2024 one is probably the second worst in the league after the Raiders. Rhamondre, Brissett and Maye made them look better than they were.

Talent, or a lack of it, is not limited to weapons.

I think that applies to the defense, too. Too many people talking about what we need on offense when the defense is showing some holes, too.

 

[RobertWeathers]

It's fair to say letting Meyers walk was most likely the worst FA decision of the post TB12 era by BB.

Yes Jonnu sucked but it didn't hurt them as much a losing Meyers.

 

[Ring 6]

OL and coaching kills the comparison.

Nevermind Bill and how bad the 24 defense is and just give me Josh, an OL, and a full season from Maye and I don't think playoffs would be crazy.

OL play is heavily influenced by play calling. They are very interrelated.

 

[Ring 6]

I think that applies to the defense, too. Too many people talking about what we need on offense when the defense is showing some holes, too.

Gaping holes

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I think that applies to the defense, too. Too many people talking about what we need on offense when the defense is showing some holes, too.

For whatever reason, there are more upgrades with defensive FAs than offensive. Filling defensive holes in FA is easier.

 

[mike_usagisan]

For whatever reason, there are more upgrades with defensive FAs than offensive. Filling defensive holes in FA is easier.

Well, if they bother to do them.

I think the Pats thought the defense was going to be better this year. Now that they know that's not the case, hopefully they'll be more willing to spend the money.

 

[signbabybrady]

I think that applies to the defense, too. Too many people talking about what we need on offense when the defense is showing some holes, too.

I think the defense was playing better in the first month or so where the OL and Weapons have been a problem all along but I think we've hit a point where our defense is actually the bigger problem.

Maybe that's as simple as benching Jacoby for Maye.

But whatever the reasons it can't be ignored that we have some huge holes on D too.

A big part of me wants a DT or a Pass rusher in the first round. Like in 01 ignore the David Terrell and go defense in Rd 1 followed by OL in Rd 2 (ideally trade up to the end of Rd 1 this time to be sure we get 1).

If Peppers stuff settles in his favor, if Barmore gets past the Blood clot stuff, and with Bentley coming back maybe we can add enough to the D in free agency but until then I'm going with the 01 plan or Travis Hunter as a CB. If we fill enough holes on D in free agency then I'll switch to Tet or something on the offense but even then I still might just want Trav because he seems like this years freak talent.

 

[Ross12]

One thing I'd like to look at, also, is consider the gap between players and what upgrades need to be made/are available to try to somewhat equalize these rosters:

QB:
Drake is already far better than Mac, so this is covered.

RB:
I'd kind of consider this a wash between 2021 and 2024, but I do think a solid receiving RB would be nice.

WR:
Hopefully Bourne in 2025 will be close to his former self in 2021.
Boutte won't be as good as Meyers in 2025 but will be better than what Agholor was giving
If you can sign Higgins then perhaps he gives you around what Meyers gave you, and Pop is an extra.

TE:
A wash IMO. 2024's group may be better since they're being utilized better, even if Jonnu is the actual better player.

OL:
LT - Lowe vs Wynn is kind of a wash? Lowe could be improved on but not easy to do.
LG - You can find a Karras-level player in free agency, or better. Trey Smith is available.
C - Andrews may return, or possibly Cole Strange will be the new center.
RG - Wash. Onwenu.
RT - Brown was very good at RT in '21, versus Jacobs not being good. But drafting/signing a decent RT shouldn't be TOO hard. Maybe Caedan Wallace can be that guy, but I'd still try to invest in the position.

So, all in all, seems like the needs to match '21 are to sign a WR (Higgins definitely does it, though there are other options), a guard and sign/draft a right tackle. At least in my opinion. Should get you a wild card caliber offense if the playcalling improves and the defense also improves (should spend heavily on defensive free agents, since as @One-If-By-Sea said, those guys are usually more plentiful and higher quality)

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

One thing I'd like to look at, also, is consider the gap between players and what upgrades need to be made/are available to try to somewhat equalize these rosters:

QB:
Drake is already far better than Mac, so this is covered.

RB:
I'd kind of consider this a wash between 2021 and 2024, but I do think a solid receiving RB would be nice.

WR:
Hopefully Bourne in 2025 will be close to his former self in 2021.
Boutte won't be as good as Meyers in 2025 but will be better than what Agholor was giving
If you can sign Higgins then perhaps he gives you around what Meyers gave you, and Pop is an extra.

TE:
A wash IMO. 2024's group may be better since they're being utilized better, even if Jonnu is the actual better player.

OL:
LT - Lowe vs Wynn is kind of a wash? Lowe could be improved on but not easy to do.
LG - You can find a Karras-level player in free agency, or better. Trey Smith is available.
C - Andrews may return, or possibly Cole Strange will be the new center.
RG - Wash. Onwenu.
RT - Brown was very good at RT in '21, versus Jacobs not being good. But drafting/signing a decent RT shouldn't be TOO hard. Maybe Caedan Wallace can be that guy, but I'd still try to invest in the position.

So, all in all, seems like the needs to match '21 are to sign a WR (Higgins definitely does it, though there are other options), a guard and sign/draft a right tackle. At least in my opinion. Should get you a wild card caliber offense if the playcalling improves and the defense also improves (should spend heavily on defensive free agents, since as @One-If-By-Sea said, those guys are usually more plentiful and higher quality)

WR - We have to hope we sign FA Higgins and then draft Hunter. Problem solved, with Bourne, Boutte, and Douglas, for years to come.

LT - Somehow/someway we need to sign someone in FA to replace Lowe. Cam Robinson is not great, hopefully someone better.
LG - We have three guys, Sow, Robinson, and J Andrews. 1. Don't forget that BB started J Andrews at the end of his rookie year at LG. BB only started guys if he believed in them, and not to see if the player could play (remember BB would not start Stidham when we had Cam for the final game). 2. Robinson was impressive at LG against the Bills last week, but he still suffers from brain farts or a lack of quickness to recover for a delayed blitz or stunt. I can't tell (not knowledgable enough) if the delayed blitz/stunt problem that Robinson has not corrected all year can be fixed or if he is too slow. Robinson does really well at run blocking and stymying bull rushes (a weakness of Strange). 3. I have no idea what happened to Sow this year. Injury? It seems to be a mystery.
C - D Andrews is finished. Was always undersized so his career will end early since he has lost a step. Strange is hopefully our savior at Center but he had a bad injury and is very slow to recover which is worrying. We can get a great center with a R3 pick.
RG - Onwenu is good if he does not show up to camp again 80 lbs. overweight.
RT - Let's hope Wallace, but he never looked great. I think we use our 2nd round pick and move up to try again at RT.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Healthy Kendrick Bourne was way better than 30 year old still recovering from a knee injury Bourne. Meyers was way better than Boutte. Agholor was a better player than Douglas, people just see him in a pessimistic light as a FA bust vs. a promising late round pick that makes Douglas an optimistic view. Judging quality of player vs. assessing relative to expectations are different things.

The OL was worlds better in 2021. Motivated Trent Brown was a very good player. Shaq Mason was a pro bowl caliber guard in his prime, better than Onwenu. Andrews was way better than the aged version we started this year with before practice squadders replaced him. Karras is a legit starting caliber OL vs. the slop we have at LG this year. Wynn was a bust for where he was taken, but still somewhat starting caliber and better than Lowe even if not by a massivle amount.

 

[Boomer B]

O-line wasn’t Swiss Cheese in 2021. Can’t do much when the line is all-time bad.

 

[Ross12]

WR - We have to hope we sign FA Higgins and then draft Hunter. Problem solved, with Bourne, Boutte, and Douglas, for years to come.

LT - Somehow/someway we need to sign someone in FA to replace Lowe. Cam Robinson is not great, hopefully someone better.
LG - We have three guys, Sow, Robinson, and J Andrews. 1. Don't forget that BB started J Andrews at the end of his rookie year at LG. BB only started guys if he believed in them, and not to see if the player could play (remember BB would not start Stidham when we had Cam for the final game). 2. Robinson was impressive at LG against the Bills last week, but he still suffers from brain farts or a lack of quickness to recover for a delayed blitz or stunt. I can't tell (not knowledgable enough) if the delayed blitz/stunt problem that Robinson has not corrected all year can be fixed or if he is too slow. Robinson does really well at run blocking and stymying bull rushes (a weakness of Strange). 3. I have no idea what happened to Sow this year. Injury? It seems to be a mystery.
C - D Andrews is finished. Was always undersized so his career will end early since he has lost a step. Strange is hopefully our savior at Center but he had a bad injury and is very slow to recover which is worrying. We can get a great center with a R3 pick.
RG - Onwenu is good if he does not show up to camp again 80 lbs. overweight.
RT - Let's hope Wallace, but he never looked great. I think we use our 2nd round pick and move up to try again at RT.

Don't really disagree with any of this... I think LT is just going to be hard to upgrade.

It seems smart to keep Robinson, J.Andrews and Strange around but still sign a LG and probably draft a C. If Robinson improves in year 2 then maybe he is your LG; if not, he is a backup. Same for Strange; if he develops into the role then he is your starting C; if not then he is a backup LG and C. J.Andrews is also a backup LG and C. You could also keep Sow as your backup RG behind Onwenu.

Wallace didn't show a lot but he also really never got much chance. He kept bouncing back and forth between left and right, then got hurt and has been out a long time. It feels very early to write him off, but also not smart to count on him. Signing and/or drafting someone who could start is wise, but carrying him as at least a backup or potential swing tackle is also a good idea. Jacobs might also be an OK swing tackle. Not great, but at least he got a lot of playing experience this year.

They also have a lot of guards that they've claimed on waivers on the 53 or PS right now that I really have no clue what to make of. They've never done anything. Are they just holding them to give them a try next year?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Don't really disagree with any of this... I think LT is just going to be hard to upgrade.

It seems smart to keep Robinson, J.Andrews and Strange around but still sign a LG and probably draft a C. If Robinson improves in year 2 then maybe he is your LG; if not, he is a backup. Same for Strange; if he develops into the role then he is your starting C; if not then he is a backup LG and C. J.Andrews is also a backup LG and C. You could also keep Sow as your backup RG behind Onwenu.

Wallace didn't show a lot but he also really never got much chance. He kept bouncing back and forth between left and right, then got hurt and has been out a long time. It feels very early to write him off, but also not smart to count on him. Signing and/or drafting someone who could start is wise, but carrying him as at least a backup or potential swing tackle is also a good idea. Jacobs might also be an OK swing tackle. Not great, but at least he got a lot of playing experience this year.

They also have a lot of guards that they've claimed on waivers on the 53 or PS right now that I really have no clue what to make of. They've never done anything. Are they just holding them to give them a try next year?

Let's hope Brown, Jacobs, and Lowe are gone next year. Need Alaric Jackson or someone for LT. We will see. Add a FA and a draft pick and then the draft pick or Wallce is the swing tackle. We have one of the worse OLs in the NFL, we have to let Brown, Jacobs, and Lowe walk out the door - no sentimentality.

The coaching staff has had enough time to look at the OL to know what to do moving forward. Hopefully Wolf is replaced or we hire a real GM as his new boss. RK and Glazer as the GM did not work out, and Wolf/Groh as the scout team was as bad.