Have Receivers For Jones And After Been Terrible?

[mgteich]

Let's examine the position often taken by posters that the staff has provided terrible WR's for their Offense. First, I 100% agree that we needed a top WR in 2024 when Wolf decided to wait a year.

IMO, the failure at WR was due to bringing in poor coaches at OC and WR in 2022 and 2023 and in the failure to have close to an NFL quality OL. To be clear, if Josh had been OC for the entire time, the WR would have been at least adequate, but yes, we still would have needed the one top difference maker.
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MAC JONES - 2021
Yes, the cupboard was bare. We only had Myers and the draft failure Harry.
So, who did the team acquire?
HENRY, SMITH, BOURNE, and AGHOLOR
I think that it is a very strange view to consider that this was a failed attempt to secure receivers.
As I recall, we made the playoffs, partly as a result of a good OC using an adequate set of receivers and a rookie QB.

MAC JONES - 2022
The receivers were pretty well set from 2021. Not seeing a great need, the staff added Thornton, Parker and Reagor.
Arguably, the coaching was the difference in the performance of the Offense.

MAC JONES - 2023
Staff and coaching started in almost full tank mode. We did add Schuster and Gesicki, as well as shots in the dark Douglas and Boutte.
The coaching staff brought us to the bottom.

DRAKE MAYE - 2024
We added Osborne and Hooper as 2024 patches. Maybe Hooper will turn out to be more than that.
As far as WR, we were clearly waiting for the future, adding prospects Polk and Baker to Bourne, Douglas, and Boutte.

DRAKE MAYE - 2025
We will acquire a top WR and probably one additional WR to compete with Bourne, Douglas, Boutte, Polk and Baker.
I suspect that this will be a good WR group under Josh and Drake.
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[ctpatsfan77]

One of the rare exceptions to Betteridge's law of headlines. ("The answer to a question posed in a headline is 'no'.")

 

[Triumph]

The Patriots have a lot of the same guy.

Development WRs - Boutte, Polk, Baker, Thornton (gone). If Thorton caught a pass in a game it was big news. Douglas is alright and every team needs a Douglas, but I find it hard to buy that DCs are concerned about stopping him. At least he is not a BUST.

Im not crazy about signing a FA WR because they want big money, but at least you know that they have actually produced on other teams.

 

[Froob]

Yes lol. Have bottom 3 weapons since Tom left. You can't possibly argue our weapons are good.

 

[moosekill]

Our qb sucked, so our wr's sucked. That doesn't mean our wr's were good, but it was impossible to judge them when the qb was as bad as Mac Jones was. Juju SS and Smith both looked good before and after they left, so that wasn't on them.

 

[Ray Ray 717]

Let's examine the position often taken by posters that the staff has provided terrible WR's for their Offense. First, I 100% agree that we needed a top WR in 2024 when Wolf decided to wait a year.

IMO, the failure at WR was due to bringing in poor coaches at OC and WR in 2022 and 2023 and in the failure to have close to an NFL quality OL. To be clear, if Josh had been OC for the entire time, the WR would have been at least adequate, but yes, we still would have needed the one top difference maker.
=================
MAC JONES - 2021
Yes, the cupboard was bare. We only had Myers and the draft failure Harry.
So, who did the team acquire?
HENRY, SMITH, BOURNE, and AGHOLOR
I think that it is a very strange view to consider that this was a failed attempt to secure receivers.
As I recall, we made the playoffs, partly as a result of a good OC using an adequate set of receivers and a rookie QB.

MAC JONES - 2022
The receivers were pretty well set from 2021. Not seeing a great need, the staff added Thornton, Parker and Reagor.
Arguably, the coaching was the difference in the performance of the Offense.

MAC JONES - 2023
Staff and coaching started in almost full tank mode. We did add Schuster and Gesicki, as well as shots in the dark Douglas and Boutte.
The coaching staff brought us to the bottom.

DRAKE MAYE - 2024
We added Osborne and Hooper as 2024 patches. Maybe Hooper will turn out to be more than that.
As far as WR, we were clearly waiting for the future, adding prospects Polk and Baker to Bourne, Douglas, and Boutte.

DRAKE MAYE - 2025
We will acquire a top WR and probably one additional WR to compete with Bourne, Douglas, Boutte, Polk and Baker.
I suspect that this will be a good WR group under Josh and Drake.
=============

Is coaching the reason our Wr's are short and weak, lack fast twitch acceleration, don't look athletic, and appear very slow compared to the rest of the NFL? Stop drafting boy scout choir boys who interview well but possess no outstanding physical attributes and stop paying bottom of the barrel money to FA WR's and expecting them to produce adequate numbers. Go out and get a physical freak, I don't care if he's a diva. Get used to it! The best ones are. Find our rookie QB some real NFL talent or expect the offense to suck every year.

 

[Rob0729]

Our qb sucked, so our wr's sucked. That doesn't mean our wr's were good, but it was impossible to judge them when the qb was as bad as Mac Jones was. Juju SS and Smith both looked good before and after they left, so that wasn't on them.

JuJu had a good game on Sunday, but he has been awful this year. He played three more games during the regular season this year than he did last year with the Patriots and he had 30 LESS yards and one more TD (two compared to one last year). This year he had 230 yards and two TDs in 14 games. JuJu is toast and he was able to pull it together for one game or more specifically two plays.

And Smith was a disaster here. He couldn't even run the routes. Remember the game where he took out Henry and then took out himself on a different play running into his own teammates? Smith was a bad fit for what the Pats wanted to do and they didn't know how to use him. I think Smith needs a simplified WCO to play well.

I am not defending Jones. But I think people want to put the blame on everything on Jones.

 

[PatsFan2]

JuJu had a good game on Sunday, but he has been awful this year. He played three more games during the regular season this year than he did last year with the Patriots and he had 30 LESS yards and one more TD (two compared to one last year). This year he had 230 yards and two TDs in 14 games. JuJu is toast and he was able to pull it together for one game or more specifically two plays.

And Smith was a disaster here. He couldn't even run the routes. Remember the game where he took out Henry and then took out himself on a different play running into his own teammates? Smith was a bad fit for what the Pats wanted to do and they didn't know how to use him. I think Smith needs a simplified WCO to play well.

I am not defending Jones. But I think people want to put the blame on everything on Jones.

Which is an enigma and bad sign on us. Smith's been good everywhere else.

 

[rkarp1]

I do believe the coaching ands scheme is more to blame than the evaluation process and the QB's.
even this past season, Bourne struggled knowing his routes, as did Polk.
I also think it is fair to say McD likes his slot WR's bigger than Pop, which may be the eventual spots for Boutte and Polk.

I thought JuJu was toast from day 1 with the Pats. I agree, 1 reg season game, and 2 plays this past weekend does not indicate he is not toast.

Jonnu was mis placed his entire career with the Pats, starting day 1.

Ditto Agholor.

 

[Rob0729]

Which is an enigma and bad sign on us. Smith's been good everywhere else.

Who cares now? We are onto a new rebuild. Sure McDaniels is back (both he and Smith were with the Pats in 2021, but the offense was pretty good that year despite Smith), but this is a totally different team. Time to move forward and stop looking back.

All you can hope for is that McDaniels has made his offense simplier for receivers to understand, Brown's influence on the passing game will help put receivers in a good position to succeed, and the Patriots upgrade their receiver talent.

I don't care what happened on the field in 2021 and 2022. That was a different regime.

 

[PatsFan2]

Who cares now? We are onto a new rebuild. Sure McDaniels is back (both he and Smith were with the Pats in 2021, but the offense was pretty good that year despite Smith), but this is a totally different team. Time to move forward and stop looking back.

All you can hope for is that McDaniels has made his offense simplier for receivers to understand, Brown's influence on the passing game will help put receivers in a good position to succeed, and the Patriots upgrade their receiver talent.

I don't care what happened on the field in 2021 and 2022. That was a different regime.

I have moved on: I was just responding to your post that was dumping on him. His only $h!t years were here.

Jonnu Smith Career Stats - NFL - ESPN

Complete career NFL stats for Pittsburgh Steelers Tight End Jonnu Smith on ESPN. Includes scoring, rushing, defensive and receiving stats.

www.espn.com

 

[PatsFan2]

I do believe the coaching ands scheme is more to blame than the evaluation process and the QB's.
even this past season, Bourne struggled knowing his routes, as did Polk.
I also think it is fair to say McD likes his slot WR's bigger than Pop, which may be the eventual spots for Boutte and Polk.

I thought JuJu was toast from day 1 with the Pats. I agree, 1 reg season game, and 2 plays this past weekend does not indicate he is not toast.

Jonnu was mis placed his entire career with the Pats, starting day 1.

Ditto Agholor.

Pop Douglas will be fine: amateur Jabar Van Pelt just didn't know how to use him.

 

[203Pat]

Yes, they sucked, and so did Mac. While Maye and Mac may have similar per-game stats in their rookie years and both played with a bunch of crappy receivers, it is clear from the eyeball test that one of them looks like the real deal, while the other, the jury was still out on at the end of his rookie year. This is why context and watching the games matter, and you can't just crunch numbers like all doofuses who ruined baseball do.

 

[TheRainMaker]

The Pats have had among the worst offensive casts in the NFL since 2019. We can end the argument here.

 

[mgteich]

The Pats have had among the worst offensive casts in the NFL since 2019. We can end the argument here.

Sure. We have the worst OL in the nfl. That tells us that our WR's are terrible???
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Consider that we might sign or trade for ONE top receiver. I submit that the WR group would be about average given all the other improvements that we will have on Offense.

 

[Patsfan1645]

Yes, they sucked, and so did Mac. While Maye and Mac may have similar per-game stats in their rookie years and both played with a bunch of crappy receivers, it is clear from the eyeball test that one of them looks like the real deal, while the other, the jury was still out on at the end of his rookie year. This is why context and watching the games matter, and you can't just crunch numbers like all doofuses who ruined baseball do.

In my opinion one looked like he was trying to attack the field and make things happen. The other looked like he was scared for his life.

 

[203Pat]

In my opinion one looked like he was trying to attack the field and make things happen. The other looked like he was scared for his life.

Bill and Josh also kept the guardrails around Mac that whole year (and probably for a good reason). They almost never let him throw the ball into the end zone, and we all know what happened in that wind game against Buffalo. It seemed pretty clear that by the time December rolled around in his rookie year, they knew what Mac's limitations were and coached around them. Maye, on the other hand, seemed to be allowed to just let it rip. The season was basically over by the time he started, so it wasn't like there was a playoff hunt to stay in, like there was in 2021, so Maye got to throw the ball. Of course, he made mistakes, but I think most have seen enough to know that there is significantly more to work with there than there was with Mac.

 

[Zuma]

Changing of the OC every year is very challenging for a young QB...especially when Matty P is one of them.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Sure. We have the worst OL in the nfl. That tells us that our WR's are terrible???
==================
Consider that we might sign or trade for ONE top receiver. I submit that the WR group would be about average given all the other improvements that we will have on Offense.

Even when the OL was competent in 2021, the WR/TE's were still among the worst at creating separation from their defenders. This has been a theme since 2019. OL needs to be stabilized first, but they eventually need some better skill players at WR.

 

[lancerman]

Even when the OL was competent in 2021, the WR/TE's were still among the worst at creating separation from their defenders. This has been a theme since 2019. OL needs to be stabilized first, but they eventually need some better skill players at WR.

Yeah. Idk some people wanted to think Mac was dragging the entire offense down, but you have Maye this year and Brady in 2019 to show you what the last 5 years of receivers have been worth. There's ways to evaluate them individually and like you said, they are possibly the worst over that span at getting separation. And in the current NFL if you don't have passing threats, you are just handicapping yourself. The league rules are designed to make it easy to be pass happy.