The glass is very half full on this roster at this point

[Tony2046]

You forgot "and they get rid of that idiot Josh McDaniels"

 

[Tony2046]

Can we please get rid of Goldilocks?

 

[amfootball]

What you really have to watch are the routes. He doesn’t recognize the right time to throw, so even if he throws to the right guy he throws it late. And then there is how he reacts to the rush. If he would accept that his skill is to run around until the play breaks down and a receiver gets open downfield that would at least create some big plays but too many times last year he saw a rush and stood still to take the sack or threw the ball right into the face of the rusher.

That is how McD is coaching him though. To try to see the play presnap and make the right decision post snap. Cam said just a couple of weeks ago that he still can't do that in real time especially with LB and safety movement.

Our offense is designed for the Qb to get the ball out which takes high football IQ. Sand lot football is the antithesis of what McD wants even though I agree it would suit Newton better. He is a play maker not a traditional Qb like we need which makes his resigning this year completely head scratching.

 

[Ivan]

Pretty decent list of backups of the Brady Era (not including Stid) at: Where are they now? Tom Brady's former backups

Gotta say none looked as poised out of the gate as Mac does right now, but this is what we expected, no?

The question is about Mac always has been about his ceiling not his floor, but that doesn't mean we should be pessimistic, he's got a long time to develop.wiling”

Many thought Brady’s “ceiling” was as a back up holding a clipboard. The real “ceiling” is how many wins and championships he can lead them to, not how many rushing TD’s he can get. Newton is still a better athlete than Jones is but all his rushing TD’s brought them was a losing record. Douchebags like Colin Cowherd talk like a “ ceiling” is an actual metric, when it’s just their language for athletic ability. The truth, at least imo, is that great QB’s usually win with their heads, not their athletic ability. Out of the all time greatest QB’s the only one with exceptional athletic ability was Elway, Brady, Montana, Marino, Unitas, Starr and others were average athletes with high football IQ’s and exceptional intangibles.

 

[amfootball]

Gotta say none looked as poised out of the gate as Mac does right now, but this is what we expected, no?

I thought Jimmy was just as poised and had a much better arm than Jones.

 

[ashley]

DEFENSE

SECONDARY
1) Williams seems very likely to be on the 53, leaving one open spot in the secondary.

FRONT SIX
2) Guy, Wise, Anderson, Godchaux, Barmore
3) Judon, Uche, Perkins
4) Hightower, Van Noy, Bentley
5) That leaves 3 open roster spots, with these players competing for the spots
Cowart, Adams, Spence, Davis, Winovich, Jennings, Langi, Berry, Thurman, Bower, new acquisition, 2nd kicker, Bledsoe
6) My choices would be Adams, Winovich and Jennings (although we may need to do something to have a 2nd kicker for awhile).

The last two or three cuts on the defensive side are going to be really interesting.

 

[50-yard-line]

Whether it's Cam or Mac, the Pats are going to have to find that 20-40-yard passing game, at least sometimes, to keep defenses honest. Nelson Agholor might well become the most important piece of the passing attack, as Reiss mentioned today.

 

[patsfaninpa]

I thought Jimmy was just as poised and had a much better arm than Jones.

Knock on Jimmy was that he wasn’t a good practice player. He played better in pre-season games than he practiced

 

[Ring 6]

That is how McD is coaching him though. To try to see the play presnap and make the right decision post snap. Cam said just a couple of weeks ago that he still can't do that in real time especially with LB and safety movement.

Our offense is designed for the Qb to get the ball out which takes high football IQ. Sand lot football is the antithesis of what McD wants even though I agree it would suit Newton better. He is a play maker not a traditional Qb like we need which makes his resigning this year completely head scratching.

But despite those deficiencies when the play broke down he could have used the skills he does have but didn’t.
When we signed him last year, I knew these would be the issues and it would be a struggle to run a legitimate effective offense, but his strengths could make up for some of it. They never did. His running rarely helped, beyond being the guy to take it the last yard or 2. He seemed disinterested in running around to buy time.
Im not sure why they brought him back but they paid him like a backup and told him they were still looking for a better starter. I guess there weren’t many other options though.

 

[Pats2000]

I thought Jimmy was just as poised and had a much better arm than Jones.

It's too bad he's made of glass. He could have been a great QB otherwise.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

This is a good Patriots team. Half this forum will be weirdly pissed when the Pats start 4-2 with Cam Newton as starting quarterback.

.

 

[masterbouncer]

This is a good Patriots team. Half this forum will be weirdly pissed when the Pats start 4-2 with Cam Newton as starting quarterback.

if its a good team, who says they wouldn't be able to be 4-2 also with Mac? beside you of course...

I mean you focus so much on the team here (is improved) but in the end it might be the Patriots are 4-2 not because of Cam but despite him?
Perhaps with Mac they would have been 5-1 or 6-0? hmm who knows, right

 

[DropKickFlutie]

if its a good team, who says they wouldn't be able to be 4-2 also with Mac? beside you of course...

I mean you focus so much on the team here (is improved) but in the end it might be the Patriots are 4-2 not because of Cam but despite him?
Perhaps with Mac they would have been 5-1 or 6-0? hmm who knows, right

It's a good roster and I think Mac is high potential. Sure. Maybe he's the exception but just going off historical precedent, not a huge proponent of throwing a rookie QB in there if the goal for 2021 is to try to win a ring.

 

[masterbouncer]

It's a good roster and I think Mac is high potential. Sure. Maybe he's the exception but just going off historical precedent, not a huge proponent of throwing a rookie QB in there if the goal for 2021 is to try to win a ring.

Why are you even talking about a ring here? seriously?
show the statistical background for your point that Cam specifically is able to do it again, wait again what?
he never won a ring, he embarrassed himself in the SB and that was when he has had his by far best season, since than he destroyed his shoulder, he banged up his knees/ankles, he is 6 years older, slower, can't process the game fast enough and was not even close to anything of the production he had back in 2015 (only season where he had 25+ TDs throwing)

If you say Mac isn't ready, Cam should start because he is more experienced ok, but fantasizing about a ring if you start Cam over Mac is plain silly

I hope for whoever starts that they go unbeaten, but come on you have to be realistic, Cam isn't prime Cam from 2015 anymore, if he has a positiv TD:INT ratio its already great and improvement from last year, but I think you are the only one who thinks Cam can lead the Pats to a Ring

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Why are you even talking about a ring here? seriously?
show the statistical background for your point that Cam specifically is able to do it again, wait again what?
he never won a ring, he embarrassed himself in the SB and that was when he has had his by far best season, since than he destroyed his shoulder, he banged up his knees/ankles, he is 6 years older, slower, can't process the game fast enough and was not even close to anything of the production he had back in 2015 (only season where he had 25+ TDs throwing)

If you say Mac isn't ready, Cam should start because he is more experienced ok, but fantasizing about a ring if you start Cam over Mac is plain silly

I hope for whoever starts that they go unbeaten, but come on you have to be realistic, Cam isn't prime Cam from 2015 anymore, if he has a positiv TD:INT ratio its already great and improvement from last year, but I think you are the only one who thinks Cam can lead the Pats to a Ring

I don’t really get the “if they’re trying to win a ring” angle. They just spent a record amount on free agency. They’re trying to win every game they can.

 

[BTTA]

I don’t really get the “if they’re trying to win a ring” angle. They just spent a record amount on free agency. They’re trying to win every game they can.

This whole meme about "the Pats spent a record amount" makes it sound like someone's wife hit the credit card too hard.

They had to spend the money. They had big holes in the roster to fill and a huge amount of cap money to spend. If they didn't spend the money allocated to players, they'd be sending a huge message to the other players and the fans that they didn't care about being competitive.

The fact that it was "a record amount" is an accident of circumstance. Whether other teams had spent that much before couldn't matter less.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Why are you even talking about a ring here? seriously?
show the statistical background for your point that Cam specifically is able to do it again, wait again what?
he never won a ring, he embarrassed himself in the SB and that was when he has had his by far best season, since than he destroyed his shoulder, he banged up his knees/ankles, he is 6 years older, slower, can't process the game fast enough and was not even close to anything of the production he had back in 2015 (only season where he had 25+ TDs throwing)

If you say Mac isn't ready, Cam should start because he is more experienced ok, but fantasizing about a ring if you start Cam over Mac is plain silly

I hope for whoever starts that they go unbeaten, but come on you have to be realistic, Cam isn't prime Cam from 2015 anymore, if he has a positiv TD:INT ratio its already great and improvement from last year, but I think you are the only one who thinks Cam can lead the Pats to a Ring

Why aren't you thinking about a ring? The Pats go for it every year and try to win as much as possible. No tanking. Even last year they won games messing up their draft order in order to try to win.
Look I don't even disagree with you that hard. The biggest difference is you wrote Cam off entirely, while I don't think last year fully encapsulates what Cam could do in 2021.

 

[masterbouncer]

Why aren't you thinking about a ring? The Pats go for it every year and try to win as much as possible. No tanking. Even last year they won games messing up their draft order in order to try to win.
Look I don't even disagree with you that hard. The biggest difference is you wrote Cam off entirely, while I don't think last year fully encapsulates what Cam could do in 2021.

Just from a realistic point of view, I don't see the Pats as contenders for the SB right now, they might develop into a contender during the season, but this heavility depends on the overall health of the starters and of course the performence of the QB (whoever it will be in the end), until any of them prove that they are ready to lead this team to victories.
We can hope for the best, but lets not fool ourselfes to talk about a ring before we even saw a real snap played in week1, thats not Bradys team anymore where you could realy "expect it" that they will go far into the PO.

The thing with Cam is, for me at least, he never was a great or accurate passer, he has (had) a cannon arm but he struggles to hit the receiver. He might have thrown some deep bombs, but intermediate passes, those that are requried to move the lines (when you get into 3rd and long) he was and still is not accurate enough for it, nor consistant. That has nothing to do how last season went for him, he wasn't accurate with the Panthers neither, also without Covid etc.

Through his physical skills and his running he was a weapon by itself to hit 10-15-20 yards or even more if need be, but that was also when he was in the prime, nowdays he is not that anymore. Just watch some of his highlights from before 2016 and now, he is evidently slower when running around, he got a good beating, and we all know that running QBs do not fade well in their 10th season and later, you do not become a faster, better runner at 30+.


So lets not count last year for Cam with the NE Patriots because lets use the excuses, joined late, no offseason, play book new, got covid, lets just say Cam and Mac are both new to NE Patriots.
The one is a rising rookie (but noone knows how he will fare) and you have a 10 year veteran who is closer to his career as fashion model than to the one as QB based on the performances last few seasons in the NFL.

For me, Cam has to earn the spot, he has to clearly and evidently beat out Mac to be the uncontended starter, if they are equal and close to each other, I personally would go with Mac. You know why?
If Cam can't clearly beat out a rookie QB (from whom you say historically they haven't won a SB or even did well in their first season) he won't lead you to a SB, he might not even be able to lead you into the Play offs.

At this point I would go with the rookie, because with every live snap he will learn, he will adopt to the NFL speed, he will improve and he will become better. Why sideline him, if the chances that you go far into the PO are as low as if you go with the vet that bearly beat the rookie out? Give him the chance for experince and don't waste time of anybody in order to rebuild a winning team. You won't rebuild it with Cam, but you will do it most probably with Mac.

If Cam is evidently the better QB right now, of course go with him, see what you get, but for that to happen, he has to improve a lot from what we have seen from him, not only from last year, but basically since his 2015 season.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Just from a realistic point of view, I don't see the Pats as contenders for the SB right now, they might develop into a contender during the season, but this heavility depends on the overall health of the starters and of course the performence of the QB (whoever it will be in the end), until any of them prove that they are ready to lead this team to victories.
We can hope for the best, but lets not fool ourselfes to talk about a ring before we even saw a real snap played in week1, thats not Bradys team anymore where you could realy "expect it" that they will go far into the PO.

The thing with Cam is, for me at least, he never was a great or accurate passer, he has (had) a cannon arm but he struggles to hit the receiver. He might have thrown some deep bombs, but intermediate passes, those that are requried to move the lines (when you get into 3rd and long) he was and still is not accurate enough for it, nor consistant. That has nothing to do how last season went for him, he wasn't accurate with the Panthers neither, also without Covid etc.

Through his physical skills and his running he was a weapon by itself to hit 10-15-20 yards or even more if need be, but that was also when he was in the prime, nowdays he is not that anymore. Just watch some of his highlights from before 2016 and now, he is evidently slower when running around, he got a good beating, and we all know that running QBs do not fade well in their 10th season and later, you do not become a faster, better runner at 30+.


So lets not count last year for Cam with the NE Patriots because lets use the excuses, joined late, no offseason, play book new, got covid, lets just say Cam and Mac are both new to NE Patriots.
The one is a rising rookie (but noone knows how he will fare) and you have a 10 year veteran who is closer to his career as fashion model than to the one as QB based on the performances last few seasons in the NFL.

For me, Cam has to earn the spot, he has to clearly and evidently beat out Mac to be the uncontended starter, if they are equal and close to each other, I personally would go with Mac. You know why?
If Cam can't clearly beat out a rookie QB (from whom you say historically they haven't won a SB or even did well in their first season) he won't lead you to a SB, he might not even be able to lead you into the Play offs.

At this point I would go with the rookie, because with every live snap he will learn, he will adopt to the NFL speed, he will improve and he will become better. Why sideline him, if the chances that you go far into the PO are as low as if you go with the vet that bearly beat the rookie out? Give him the chance for experince and don't waste time of anybody in order to rebuild a winning team. You won't rebuild it with Cam, but you will do it most probably with Mac.

If Cam is evidently the better QB right now, of course go with him, see what you get, but for that to happen, he has to improve a lot from what we have seen from him, not only from last year, but basically since his 2015 season.

1. Not sure if you studied Cam but he's been a 68% passer in the past if the OC stops pigeon holing the guy as a runner only.

2. I disagree Cam has to clearly beat out Mac. The job is Cam's. I think Mac is high potential but Mac would have to play like a videogame QB to beat out Cam. Cam has the job and won't lose it unless major injury or really bad play. Question is how will you feel when the Pats are 4-2 to start yet you're conflicted and weirdly rooting against your own team ???

 

[masterbouncer]

1. Not sure if you studied Cam but he's been a 68% passer in the past if the OC stops pigeon holing the guy as a runner only.

2. I disagree Cam has to clearly beat out Mac. The job is Cam's. I think Mac is high potential but Mac would have to play like a videogame QB to beat out Cam. Cam has the job and won't lose it unless major injury or really bad play. Question is how will you feel when the Pats are 4-2 to start yet you're conflicted and weirdly rooting against your own team ???

Total	140	139	75−63−1	2,613	4,348	60.1	31,698	7.3	190	118	91	85.8	1,071	5,398	5.0	72T	70	322	2,394	58	21
Year	Team	Games	Passing	Rushing	Sacks	Fumbles
GP	GS	Record	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Avg	TD	Int	Lng	Rtg	Att	Yds	Avg	Lng	TD	Sck	SckY	Fum	Lost
2011	CAR	16	16	6−10	310	517	60.0	4,051	7.8	21	17	91	84.5	126	706	5.6	59T	14	35	260	5	2
2012	CAR	16	16	7−9	280	485	57.7	3,869	8.0	19	12	82	86.2	127	741	5.8	72T	8	36	244	10	3
2013	CAR	16	16	12−4	292	473	61.7	3,379	7.1	24	13	79	88.8	111	585	5.3	56	6	43	336	3	1
2014	CAR	14	14	5−8−1	262	448	58.5	3,127	7.0	18	12	51	82.1	103	539	5.2	22	5	38	300	9	5
2015	CAR	16	16	15−1	296	495	59.8	3,837	7.8	35	10	74	99.4	132	636	4.8	47	10	33	284	5	4
2016	CAR	15	14	6−8	270	510	52.9	3,509	6.9	19	14	88	75.8	90	359	4.0	28	5	36	277	3	2
2017	CAR	16	16	11−5	291	492	59.1	3,302	6.7	22	16	64	80.7	139	754	5.4	69	6	35	342	9	1
2018	CAR	14	14	6−8	320	471	67.5	3,395	7.2	24	13	82	94.2	101	488	4.8	29	4	29	213	6	0
2019	CAR	2	2	0−2	50	89	56.2	572	6.4	0	1	44	71.0	5	−2	−0.4	3	0	6	43	2	2
2020	NE	15	15	7−8	242	368	65.8	2,657	7.2	8	10	50	82.9	137	592	4.3	49	12	31	195	6	1

Cam has had only 2 seasons above 65% cmp in his carrer, overall is barly above 60%, where you got your stats from?
Anyway, I hope for the Pats to win, regardless who is starting, but I am not in Cams ass that deep I don't see clear anymore like others here