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Belichick criticism mega-thread


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Would have been Hopkins if he had got past the Texans. I think Pats tried to go up but no one wanted to go back then he went and that's when they did the trade with Minnesota. But as far as the draft and WRs is concerned A LOT of teams missed in that one, here are the only WRs that panned out from that draft: DeAndre Hopkins, Robert Woods & Kenny Stills. That's it. Marquise Godwin had a good season a few years ago but hasn't been more than 300-400 yard guy in any other season. 2nd best WR from that class was Adam Thielen who went undrafted.
 
Albert Breer has lost his mind: MMQB: Super Bowles, Watt and Texans Mess, Trevor Lawrence

I was embarrassed just reading what he wrote about Brandin Cooks.

Cooks was traded because he's always been the same Brandin Cooks wherever he went. And he was worth a 1st rounder.

If they traded Cooks to play with anyone other than Brady, you'll have to tell me why so many teams have moved on from him (even though he's a good WR and has talent). But are the Saints, Patriots, Rams and soon the Texans all wrong about the same guy? He is likely an excellent #2, but not capable of doing what you brought him in to do.

In Brady's first game with Cooks, he went deep to him 5 times, 1x 25+ yards, one time 54 yards, and a 26 yard DPI. He went deep to Cooks all year to good affect. But no one here cried when Cooks went away because we didn't see a game breaker. His game was quite similar to Brandon Lloyd's, who was a really really good #2.
 
Albert Breer has lost his mind: MMQB: Super Bowles, Watt and Texans Mess, Trevor Lawrence

I was embarrassed just reading what he wrote about Brandin Cooks.

Cooks was traded because he's always been the same Brandin Cooks wherever he went. And he was worth a 1st rounder.

If they traded Cooks to play with anyone other than Brady, you'll have to tell me why so many teams have moved on from him (even though he's a good WR and has talent). But are the Saints, Patriots, Rams and soon the Texans all wrong about the same guy? He is likely an excellent #2, but not capable of doing what you brought him in to do.

In Brady's first game with Cooks, he went deep to him 5 times, 1x 25+ yards, one time 54 yards, and a 26 yard DPI. He went deep to Cooks all year to good affect. But no one here cried when Cooks went away because we didn't see a game breaker. His game was quite similar to Brandon Lloyd's, who was a really really good #2.
If Breer is saying that it is probably because someone in the organization told him that was the plan.

In regard of cooks, Bill trade him away because he didn’t to pay him. The guy quietly has 5 seasons of 1000+ yds in his 7 years career.

I am sure that Bill would have paid Cooks for his boy Jimmy.
 
If Breer is saying that it is probably because someone in the organization told him that was the plan.

In regard of cooks, Bill trade him away because he didn’t to pay him. The guy quietly has 5 seasons of 1000+ yds in his 7 years career.

I am sure that Bill would have paid Cooks for his boy Jimmy.
No way BB spends that much money for a guy who is not a true #1. No way. Not for Jimmy, not for anyone. The timing is also totally wrong on all of this since Jimmy G. was traded a full 6 months earlier than Cooks, in October. That was Cooks's only season with New England.

By the time the Patriots traded FOR Brandin Cooks after the start of free agency in 2017 (March) they had already discussed trading Jimmy G. with future suitors. It was after the 2016-2017 season that the Patriots realized they had to trade Jimmy G. So they brought in Cooks AFTER they had made the team decision to part with Jimmy G.

Look at thee timeline. Remember when BB talked to Shanahan BEFORE the start of FA and Shanahan asked for Brady? BB rejected the offer and laughed at Shanahan. Cooks wasn't even on the team at this point.
 
Why would Brady get a National Championship ring? The metric in that graphic is Super Bowl wins -- Belichick has coached on 8 teams that have won a Super Bowl; Brady has played on 7 teams that have won a Super Bowl. There is nothing "stupid" about it -- it's merely an objective statistic.

Bill does not have the most rings as coach of the New England Patriots. Josh McDaniels also has six rings as a coach.

Championships, Patriots Coaches
Josh McDaniels - 6 (tie)
Bill Belichick - 6 (tie)

The metric in that chart is Super Bowl wins with the Patriots -- McDaniels has coached on 6 New England teams that have won a Super Bowl; Belichick has coached on 6 New England teams that have won a Super Bowl. There is nothing “stupid” about it - it’s merely an objective statistic.

Based on this objective fact, I don’t see why I’d vote for Belichick over McDaniels for the Patriots Hall of Fame, and I should refer to Belichick as “one of the New England coaches who coached on six teams that won the championships, though not the only one.”

There’s no reason to designate someone’s role as the head coach or coordinator, right? When trying to make a point that one is superior, no need to clarify that the discussion should have a minimum qualifier that someone is the actual leader of their position, as a head coach or starter?
 
Can you point to one time in recent years when the team didn't spend to the cap?

You act as if Belichick never attempted to assemble a winning team around Brady, and that he never made a strong push to sign marquee free-agents or trade for premium players. That narrative is simply false.

Is your definition of "all-in" really "all-in on offense"?

A few names that were acquired via free-agency or trade: Gilmore, Sheard, Branch, Hicks, Develin, Ninkovich, Lewis, Revis, Browner, Talib, Amendola, Van Noy . . . and if you want to look further back, Moss and Welker may ring a bell.

Can you indicate which personnel moves you would have made over the past 3-6 years that would have been your version of going "all-in", that still would've accommodated the cap ceiling?
Spending to the cap is not going all in. And I’m really looking at the last 4 years. More so the past couple of years. So stop with the nonsense that I said BB never tried to put a winning team around Brady. Going all in does mean trying to put some legit weapons around Brady and not just load up on defense. And Gilmore is really the only recent big time free agent signing. Going all in requires spending money today to bring in genuine talent knowing you are creating cap issues down the road. Even this year they decided to let Brady move on and clear out their cap space. But the didn’t have to cut anyone to get under the cap. I’m not saying all in has to be what the Saints did, but it is most definitely not simply paying at or around the cap.
 
Would have been Hopkins if he had got past the Texans. I think Pats tried to go up but no one wanted to go back then he went and that's when they did the trade with Minnesota. But as far as the draft and WRs is concerned A LOT of teams missed in that one, here are the only WRs that panned out from that draft: DeAndre Hopkins, Robert Woods & Kenny Stills. That's it. Marquise Godwin had a good season a few years ago but hasn't been more than 300-400 yard guy in any other season. 2nd best WR from that class was Adam Thielen who went undrafted.
K Allen. T Williams was decent for a minute or maybe I'm thinking of someone else. C Patt but I guess you could make the case for "athlete" before WR.
 
So BB went from saying we shouldn't pay too much and we mortgaged our future................ to now being uncharacteristically aggressive? Why? Because Brady won a SB without him? Why didn't we go all out WITH Brady rather than without him?




Report: Patriots Planning for 'Extremely' Aggressive Offseason​



Yup. Instead of trading down for a few three and fourth rounders this year we'll trade down for a SECOND ROUND pick. Yeah. Oh yeah. So there!
 
Yup. Instead of trading down for a few three and fourth rounders this year we'll trade down for a SECOND ROUND pick. Yeah. Oh yeah. So there!
Guys, if Tom didn't want to be here he could've left 15 years earlier. He didn't need to stay and if he did, that's on him. Don't like the drafts, leave. Don't like the coaching, leave. I assume he saw the value proposition and stayed. Tom wasn't a prisoner.
 
Guys, if Tom didn't want to be here he could've left 15 years earlier. He didn't need to stay and if he did, that's on him. Don't like the drafts, leave. Don't like the coaching, leave. I assume he saw the value proposition and stayed. Tom wasn't a prisoner.
I could explain how the franchise tag works, and I could explain how contracts work, and I could explain situational evolution, but I suspect that would fall on deaf ears.
 
Why would Brady get a National Championship ring? The metric in that graphic is Super Bowl wins -- Belichick has coached on 8 teams that have won a Super Bowl; Brady has played on 7 teams that have won a Super Bowl. There is nothing "stupid" about it -- it's merely an objective statistic.
It’s basically just a sad attempt for team Bill to grasp at anything that takes the shine off Brady’s 7 rings. If Josh were ever to somehow manage to win a ring as a head coach I sure as hell wouldn’t give him credit for a ring he won as a coordinator.
 
I was team Bill+Tom for the longest time and I didn’t care that Bill took way more credit than any coach in any sport ever because the team was a well oiled machine and they both contributed to it. That all stopped when Bill decided to publicly embarrass the player that saved the dynasty with one miraculous play and broke the ten year draught of ridiculously bad luck. He had 4 hours to change his mind and put him into the game and he never did, never apologized to the players and never offered any explanation.

People say Pete Carroll’s call was the worst in SB history but it was a 60 second decision, he didn’t have a do-over. Bill could have played Butler even in the 4th quarter, he most certainly would have contributed more than Bademosi, Rowe and Richards. He stubbornly stuck to his choice while the Eagles made a minced meat of his defense for 60 minutes and Brady, Gronk and Amendola desperately fought back drive-for-drive for 55 minutes until the strip-sack. That a 500 yards 3/0 TD/INT performance by Brady wasn’t enough, says it all.

Ever since then, i’ve been completely on team Tom. Belichick thought sticking with his decision is more important than giving the 53 players the best chance to win the game.

And after 20 years, pretending that Brady is not different than Duron Harmon or Reche Caldwell, so we can treat him as such? Winning is not everything, especially after 6 titles. There’s also gratitude, respect and appreciation for the best player to ever played the game, who deserved to retire as such even if it meant that betting on him didn’t work for a season or even two.

But to quote Skip Bayless, there’s one man you don’t bet against and that’s Tom Brady.

Preach!!

Dude literally threw that game to make a point about a guy who wouldn’t be in the team 24hours later. I’m a fan and I was absolutely pissed I can’t imagine being a player and just looking at Ann like what the ****
 
Dude literally threw that game to make a point about a guy who wouldn’t be in the team 24hours later. I’m a fan and I was absolutely pissed I can’t imagine being a player and just looking at Ann like what the ****

Wait. You think that Bill Belichick THREW the Super Bowl? For real?
 
Tom Brady is the greatest of all time, but please stop implying that everything he does is perfect.
We all know Brady isn't "perfect", it goes without saying.

Your post is impressively detailed but there's no season-crippling mistake in there. I mean you're pointing out incompletions which is gratuitous scrutiny. But since you put in the time I'll give it all consideration.

As for examples we can start with the SB 46: safety, incompletions resulting in red zone FG, two incompletions leading to a 3-and-out, another 3-and-out followed by a critical 4th quarter pick; it wasn't a good game.
On the safety throw he was about to get clobbered by Tuck in the end zone. The refs very easily could have let that go but technically the call was correct. Brady had a window to get it to Welker over the middle on the play but apparently didn't see him. Bad play but it's down on the list of plays that determined the outcome of the game.

The Patriots defense had a horrible sequence on the drive following the safety. They were late getting defenders on and off the field. They had a turnover wiped out by a 12-men on the field penalty... that's on Belichick and it cost the team 7 points.

You're riffling off incompletions, of which he only had 14, and 7 of them were the safety, the pick, the Welker drop, the Branch drop (on the final drive), the Hernandez drop (on the final drive), a spike (on the final drive), and the hail mary. Overall he completed 66% of his passes.

On the pick Brady made a great play to avoid a sack and was fortunate to even get the pass off. The pass was on target and Gronk, who was worthless in the game with the ankle injury, had the ball ripped away by a backup stiff linebacker. Had Gronk been healthy for this game they would have won it.

The Welker drop was a game-killer. He makes that catch and the game's probably over... at worst they're up 5 with NYG having little time to drive the field with no timeouts. As it was Belichick, as he's prone to do, held off on using his timeouts to conserve time for the Patriots offense and it cost them 40 seconds they could have used on the final drive.

Of all the things you're knocking Brady for in this game, I'll give him heat for safety play, but for something you didn't mention, which was missing Welker over the middle.

Brady wasn't bad in SB 46. He made some very good throws under duress and they were in position to win the game late in the 4th quarter but the defense gave up it's second Super Bowl game-winning drive to Eli Manning, who is not a good quarterback.

This coming on the heels of a 0 TD/2 Int game vs Baltimore in the Billy Cundiff game, the Pats winning despite Tom.
Brady wasn't good in the AFCCG but they won the game so your point is moot. I want season-crippling mistakes. Not poor play in a win.

That Jets game was the second year in a row of one-and-done for the Pats. The previous year Brady completed just 54% of his passes while throwing three interceptions against the Ravens. Go back one more year to the AFCCG vs San Diego, who were averaging 26 points per game. The Patriots won because the defense limited the Chargers to 12 points, bailing Brady out of a 209 yards, three-pick game. The next game was the loss to the Giants with Tom throwing 29 incompletions, losing a critical fumble just before the half, and basically doing almost nothing on seven of the nine drives.
There's a lot to unpack there. Again, discussing a victory is pointless so I'll stick with the losses. Chronologically...

Firstly, Brady did not have 29 incompletions in SB 42. But anyway, we all know the story of this SB... the Patriots OL got destroyed. NYG totally stuffed the running game and pressured Brady from start to finish. That Brady was able to drive the offense down the field for the lead late in the 4th quarter was miraculous. It should have been enough to win the game but the defense allowed Eli Manning to drive 83 yards for the loss. The TD pass to Burress was an abomination. No way the sideline should have let that play happen with 5'8" Hobbs in isolation on 6'5" Burress... a timeout has got to be called there by Belichick.

I hope we're not putting the '09 wild card loss on Brady, right? Baltimore did one thing all day long on offense, hand the ball off, and the Patriots were clueless to stop it. Belichick should lose his defensive genius credentials for this game alone.

The '10 divisional game was the asinine Welker benching which had Brady throwing screen passes to the law firm on the opening drive. The Jets got a FG off the pick and thereafter Brady played well in this game... 250, 2 TD's, 0 INT's and a QBR over 100. The most costly gaff of this game was the ill-advised fake punt that gave the Jets a short field with a minute left in the half. WTF! was that?

In the 2006 AFCCG the Pats defense scored on a pick six, and the offense started on the 40 or better five times - but that great field position resulted in only one TD and two FGs. Tom's 4th quarter drives consisted of a three-and-out; starting on the Colts 43 and having 1st down at the 13 but two incompletions resulting in settling for a FG; starting on the 46 but two more incompletions leading to another FG; an incomplete pass to Troy Brown resulting in a critical three-and-out; and the game ending on an interception.
2006 was the first of three seasons (including 2013 and 2019) when Belichick completely f*cked over Brady with a half-assed roster. It showed up in this game starting with Caldwell dropping a walk-in TD. Sure, Brady wasn't good in this game, but he was surrounded by trash all season. Also, I've yet to hear a good explanation for why Belichick started Eric Alexander, a career special teamer, and then just sat back while he got torched by TE's all night.

2012 post-season: only 53% passes completed (29-54), 1 TD, 2 Int in 28-13 loss to Ravens. 2013 post-season: Pats fall behind 23-3 to Denver, with Tom going 13-22, 133 yards, 0 TD over the first three quarters while the outcome was still in doubt. 2015 post-season: Ton completes just 48% of his passes, with 1 TD and 2 Int in the 20-18 loss to Denver. Of the 60 times Brady dropped back to pass, 33 times the result was no gain and 16 were for a gain of less than ten yards. One of the pick led directly to a Broncos touchdown, and the only TD came after a turnover gave the Pats possession deep in Denver territory. 2019 post-season: 54% completions, 0 TD, 1 Int (pick-six). Zero points in the second half; last six drives consisted of a turnover on downs, four straight punts and an interception.
2012 postseason... they got beat by a better team and totally outplayed on both sides of the ball in the second half.
2013 postseason... they had very little chance in Denver who was a much better team that season. The Patriots skill position players were a joke that season.
2015 postseason... are we seriously getting on Brady for this game? He converted two 4th-down plays just to give them a chance for the tie. Denver's defense was all-time great that season, even still, the Patriots should have represented the AFC in the Super Bowl... Belichick completely butchered the end of the regular season (weeks 13, 16 &17) which knocked the Patriots out of the 1 seed.
2019 postseason... fitting end to a hopeless season. From week 9 on through the postseason the team wasn't any good on either side of the ball. Belichick's clock management and (lack of) use of timeouts was awful in the final regular season game and the wild card game. Brady, Belichick, the entire team... not good by the end of the season.

If we want to flip this around then I can point to a bunch of clutch postseason games, plays and game-winning moments by Brady. More than any other NFL player by a longshot. And now he's doing it with another franchise, which is unprecedented, and has him being discussed as the greatest player ever across all professional sports. But yes, you've proved everything he does is not perfect.
 
Wait. You think that Bill Belichick THREW the Super Bowl? For real?

Of course BB didn’t deliberately try and lose. Clearly @carmelo15 is using a hyperbole. We all understood what he meant. Please don’t be dense.
 
I could explain how the franchise tag works, and I could explain how contracts work, and I could explain situational evolution, but I suspect that would fall on deaf ears.

Yup--we would've had Kraft/Belichick's head if they ever let Tom go for nothing. In fact, if they had traded Brady back in 2017 when San Fran wanted him, we would've been in an uproar.
 
Of course BB didn’t deliberately try and lose. Clearly @carmelo15 is using a hyperbole. We all understood what he meant. Please don’t be dense.

I am not familiar with carmelo15's posting history. I have no idea if he thinks BB threw the game or not. There are people out there that think all kinds of insane things. So please don't accuse me of being dense. I don't think we really want a throw-down here.
 
It’s basically just a sad attempt for team Bill to grasp at anything that takes the shine off Brady’s 7 rings. If Josh were ever to somehow manage to win a ring as a head coach I sure as hell wouldn’t give him credit for a ring he won as a coordinator.
But, but, but....

Belichick really is that kind of difference maker.

We saw it. We saw him join the Patriots in 1996, a 5-11 team with a coach halfway out the door, and suddenly our defense started clicking. He goes to the woeful Jets and the next thing you know, the saddest team in football becomes formidable. He comes to New England and before Brady became Brady, BB's defense took us to a Super Bowl victory. So those 3 stops make us rewind back to the Giants and we understand a few things: One, Parcells is in the HOF because of his Giants period. Two, BB's game plan for the first Bills SB is in the HOF. Three, Parcells never did anything without Belichick.

I know how I felt back in 96-97 when BB and Kraft sat in a car for several hours but Kraft couldn't convince BB to take over the helm. I know how I felt when BB rejected the Raiders job to stick with the Jets. I know how I felt when BB took over the Patriots.

He deserves so much of the credit for those coordinator years with the Giants/Patriots/Jets.
 
I am not familiar with carmelo15's posting history. I have no idea if he thinks BB threw the game or not. There are people out there that think all kinds of insane things. So please don't accuse me of being dense. I don't think we really want a throw-down here.

Dude, the point is that BB’s poor decisions regarding benching Butler led to the loss. In that context he “threw” the game, since that mistake was easily avoidable. He didn’t deliberately try to lose but the mistake was so egrigious and so avoidable, it might as well be said that he “threw” it. It’s a hyperbole. Basically BB fcked up.
 
But this is all under the assumption that Brady wanted to stay. I don't think he did and I'm not alone in thinking this way.

Do people really believe BB just let Brady walk? For what reason would he do that? Before the 2019 season, Belichick signed him to a weird 3 year deal that was essentially a year to year contract. In that contract, Brady demanded he not be franchised.

Why would Brady make that demand if he didn't intend on leaving?

Whether it's because of Guerrero, sitting Malcolm Butler and possibly losing as a result, being tired of living in BB's shadow, or all of the above. The damage was done and Brady was checked out.

It's just like the ridiculous argument Red Sox fans make about Mookie. The writing was on the wall. He was a Boras client who wanted to test free agency. That means he's leaving for the highest bidder.

Boston fans have this weird arrogance to them where they think all players just want to stay on our teams and it's the ownership that drives them out. In some cases, that is true. However, in many high profile cases, it's not.

Players are mercenaries who do what's best for them (as they should). In many cases, that's about finding a team desperate enough to grossly overpay them (Mookie), or look for some "respect", or look to get out of the shadow of their coach, or leave the ****ty New England weather for a sunny area.

Tl;Dr - Brady was gone. Belichick knew it when he demanded the no franchise tag. Despite the winning of the late 20teens, Brady was growing disgruntled and that's that.

This is actually incorrect since I personally know Mookie. He wanted to stay, he just wanted the Sox to meet a certain number
 
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