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Ring 6

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It IS the discussion. Whether "any QB" would have gotten them there with their defense and special teams.

Nope, only one could have, and did.
No the discussion had nothing to do with brady
It had to do with the fact that the playoff run of the 2001 patriots was one where the defense and specials contributions compared to the offense was the most tilted in memory.

I’m not sure why you have to run a fact through your “how does this truth affect other arguments I’ve made” filter and then feel compelled to deny it.
 
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203Pat

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Rob is still in here defending Bill and diminishing Brady while pretending he isn't Team Bill?
 

crawhammer

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
And if you aren't being fair. Belichick retooled that the team in 2001 and there were a lot of players replaced that season. He added players like Matt Light, Antowan Smith, Mike Vrabel, Anthony Pleasant, Bryan Cox, etc. Some of them were only good for one year, but it changed the team. Brady wasn't the only change from 2000 to 2001. For example, Smith was a huge upgrade over Kevin Faulk as the lead back.
Antowain Smith wasn't exactly Earl Campbell either. The huge upgrade at running back actually came in '04 when Smith was replaced by Corey Dillon.

Oddly the 2000 and 2001 defenses gave exactly 1 yard difference... 5353 in '00 and 5352 in '01. The big difference from '00 to '01 was takeaways. The '01 team had 12 more picks. Belichick did a nice job rounding out that '01 roster but some of their best defenders including Law, Milloy, McGinest and Bruschi dated back to Parcells. The defense had improved in '01, and that unit was important, especially in the postseason, but Brady was the single most impactful difference that season. We know now that Brady is greatest and most impactful player in the history of the NFL. You can't just ignore that and simply lump him in with whatever changes occurred from 2000 to 2001. Antowain Smith? You think swopping him out with another average running back was going to hold them back from winning Super Bowls in '01 and '03? Vrabel, Cox, whoever... they obviously weren't as important as Brady.

As for the head coach, he was there in '00, when they sucked, and it's no coincidence that his roster construction suddenly looked a lot better after Brady replaced Bledsoe. I don't know what the team would have looked like with other quarterbacks from that season but I know they had looked putrid with Bledsoe for the first 18 games of Belichick's tenure. Belichick probably wouldn't have made it past 2003 with Bledsoe. Let's see how far he gets without Brady now.
 

Biffins

In the Starting Line-Up
How exactly am I ignoring Brady's work ethic when I have many times defended my point that Brady wasn't immediately elite and did so over time because he worked harder than everyone else to improve himself. And I recognized all his other attributes even if I didn't specifically mentioned them saying Brady always had the tools to be elite but needed several years to put them together. Stop claiming I don't recognize Brady's elite talents. I think he is the greatest of all time and after Bruschi is my favorite Patriot of all time.

And I don't give a **** about Belichick's record before Brady. Different situations and Belichick, like Brady, needed to grow to become elite. This a weak argument.

And I don't care what Belichick said about coaches don't win games. Those are platitudes. If coaches don't win games, why pay Belichick or Carroll or whoever the top paid coaches are if you can just assemble a vastly talented team and put any Joe Smoe in as the head coach and contend and win Super Bowls? This isn't the NBA. And Belichick really believed that, his defensive game plan for Super Bowl 36 wouldn't be in the Pro Football Hall of Fame right now. Why would he let his game plan be in the Hall when he believes it had nothing to do with winning?

Do you care about Belichick's record as Patriots HC without Brady?

FYI, it's less than 0.5

We laugh at guys like Mike Tomlin as strategically inept and quasi-cheerleaders, and yet Tomlin has not had a single losing season (worse than 8-8) with the Steelers in 13 years. BB has had 2 losing seasons with the Patriots out of the 3 he had without Brady.

I think BB is on the hot seat. Another losing season and he could be toast. That would make it 3 losing seasons out of the 4 he had without Brady at that stage.
 
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