Belichick criticism mega-thread

[Ring 6]

Defense was helped out significantly by the blizzard. The offense put up 300 yards in the second half and 13 unanswered points including the game tying drive and the game winning drive in O.T. That game IMO was won more by the offense especially considering the ridiculous weather conditions and Adam's insane kick.

Aren’t unanswered points also a reflection of shutting the other offense out?

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Right. And there were two special teams TDs in the AFCCG. That is where he came up with 3 offensive TDs and 3 defensive and special teams TD. Again, where was he wrong?

The Broncos scored a defensive td in the SB.

 

[Ring 6]

One was before offense was opened up thanks to Bill Polian's rule changes and the other was after. What's the confusion?

Because the conversation is about teams where special teams and defense contributed the most with respect to what the offense contributed.
why would the era have anything to do with that.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

That is not correct.
the defense and special teams did not score in that post season. All 5 TDs were scored by the offense, you missed an offensive fumble recovery TD.

The 2001 Patriot d 15.3 but also scored a td, and the special teams added 2 more.
I’ll take allowing 47 and scoring on a pick 6 as superior to allowing 44 and not scoring on a pick 6.

 

[Ring 6]

The Broncos scored a defensive td in the SB.

No they didn’t. The offense scored on a run and on a fumble their offense fumbled into the end zone and an ol recovered.

Edit: it was a defensive score. Thr box score had “offensive fumble recovered”. My bad.

 

[sb1]

Because the conversation is about teams where special teams and defense contributed the most with respect to what the offense contributed.
why would the era have anything to do with that.

Because you're comparing TD and points between the two teams offenses. Not comparable across eras.

 

[Ring 6]

They don't get to the Super Bowl without Brady.

What does that opinion have to do with the discussion.
They surely don’t get there without the defense and special teams, and it’s not debatable they contributed more than the offense.

 

[sb1]

What does that opinion have to do with the discussion.
They surely don’t get there without the defense and special teams, and it’s not debatable they contributed more than the offense.

It IS the discussion. Whether "any QB" would have gotten them there with their defense and special teams.

Nope, only one could have, and did.

 

[Rob0729]

The Broncos scored a defensive td in the SB.

Oh, ok. I don't remember much about that Super Bowl other than it was in snowy NJ.

 

[venecol]

That is not correct.
the defense and special teams did not score in that post season. All 5 TDs were scored by the offense, you missed an offensive fumble recovery TD.

The 2001 Patriot d 15.3 but also scored a td, and the special teams added 2 more.
I’ll take allowing 47 and scoring on a pick 6 as superior to allowing 44 and not scoring on a pick 6.

EDIT Denver score 4 offensive TD and 1 defensive TD.
That is still more offensive TDs and fewer d/st tds than the 01 pats.

What am I missing?

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Oh, ok. I don't remember much about that Super Bowl other than it was in snowy NJ.

Your not kidding, especially since it was played at Levi’s Stadium in Santa Clara, CA.

 

[Rob0729]

Your not kidding, especially since it was played at Levi’s Stadium in Santa Clara, CA.

I thought you were talking about the Super Bowl where Manning was toast. I didn't see the other Super Bowl. I was a trade show for business that Sunday and missed most of the game. And might have boycotted it because the Pats should have been in that Super Bowl.

 

[venecol]

No they didn’t. The offense scored on a run and on a fumble their offense fumbled into the end zone and an ol recovered.

Edit: it was a defensive score. Thr box score had “offensive fumble recovered”. My bad.

Yea you had me wondering if I had to adjust dosage on my edibles. Lol

 

[venecol]

Eli had a great run in the playoffs in the 2007 season, but he was never elite.

Not Joe Flacco elite, for sure.

 

[Kontradiction]

How exactly am I ignoring Brady's work ethic when I have many times defended my point that Brady wasn't immediately elite and did so over time because he worked harder than everyone else to improve himself. And I recognized all his other attributes even if I didn't specifically mentioned them saying Brady always had the tools to be elite but needed several years to put them together. Stop claiming I don't recognize Brady's elite talents. I think he is the greatest of all time and after Bruschi is my favorite Patriot of all time.

You’re ignoring it when you call him “above average” in the 2001 season. That means you’re only taking into account his level of play when weighing him as either THE most important piece to the puzzle or just another important piece. You’re ignoring the intangibles that he brought to the table that steadied the ship as he was still fine tuning his game on the field. I’d say maybe you mis-worded your post and left out context, but we both know that would be a lie if I did. And sure. You used to praise those things. That praise stopped and turned into a smear campaign when he left. Homer gonna homer.

And I don't give a **** about Belichick's record before Brady. Different situations and Belichick, like Brady, needed to grow to become elite. This a weak argument.

Try reading that portion of the post again. Read it again. Read it one more time. Still need help? I got you. What was THEIR record under Bill before and after Brady? “Their,” meaning the Patriots. I’m not talking about his time with the Browns, which the Bill fans think should be thrown out. That’s not relevant here. What was the Patriots record in 2000 and 2001, up until the Mo Lewis hit? What was their record after that? That’s what I thought. Brady was THE most important piece to the puzzle. That season was swirling down the drain before he came in

And I don't care what Belichick said about coaches don't win games. Those are platitudes. If coaches don't win games, why pay Belichick or Carroll or whoever the top paid coaches are if you can just assemble a vastly talented team and put any Joe Smoe in as the head coach and contend and win Super Bowls? This isn't the NBA. And Belichick really believed that, his defensive game plan for Super Bowl 36 wouldn't be in the Pro Football Hall of Fame right now. Why would he let his game plan be in the Hall when he believes it had nothing to do with winning?

Coaches don’t make plays on the field, Rob. They break down film and form a game plan. Neither of those things will win you a game by themselves. You still need the players to make the plays. If that wasn’t the case, then wHy PaY tHe PlAyErZ aLL tHaT mOnEy/? But, let’s flesh this out a bit to make sure I understand this - your opinion is that BB was full of **** in that quote and did not actually believe what he was saying? In other words, BB was lying? Yes or no?

 

[Kontradiction]

I thought you were talking about the Super Bowl where Manning was toast. I didn't see the other Super Bowl. I was a trade show for business that Sunday and missed most of the game. And might have boycotted it because the Pats should have been in that Super Bowl.

Oy vey. He IS talking about the Super Bowl where Manning was toast. Have a cup of coffee.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Are we still arguing whether Brady was elite in his early years?

 

[Deus Irae]

Are we still arguing whether Brady was elite in his early years?

The Brady bashers/diminishers are still clowning themselves, if that's what you're asking.

 

[TheRainMaker]

The Brady bashers/diminishers are still clowning themselves, if that's what you're asking.

It’s amazing it’s still going on.

 

[Deus Irae]

It’s amazing it’s still going on.

Well, given who the posters are, I'm not surprised they're still at it.