PatsFans.com - Mobile
PatsFans.com
Search
2020 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: N/A

Current Patriots Twitter Feed:

1960Pats

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Whatever the truth. Whatever Asante’s motivations. Statements like these are devastating to the future of the Patriots and the reputation and legacy of Bill Belichick. Last week it was a loyal soldier like Ninkovich. This stuff is only beginning. The long knives are out.
It was predicted at the beginning of the dynasty run that Bill could get away with his tactics as long as the winning continued. Well, the winning has stopped and now those predictions look to be spot on.
 

1960Pats

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Sure... in a draft thread when Dawson was just selected. In a Kony Ealy thread when he was just traded for... not enough for you.

Bill is horrible.... is that good, or should I go find where his boat is moored and punch a hole in the hull?
Speaking of holes in the hull... I worked with a crazy sob 50 years ago, Mike, who was told to go into one of the buildings to work on some equipment there. He told his boss (or maybe warned him) that he wasn't any good at that and didn't want to go. When his boss insisted, Mike went and noticed that the company's ceo was keeping his boat there for the winter. Though nobody saw him, Mike took a 3lb hammer and put a hole in the boat's hull. They never asked Mike to do that job again.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
There was a period during the Pom Pom era he was hurt a lot but I don't recall the word "bust" describing Willie ever
Bust might have been too strong a word. I just have an absolute sense of how badly fans thought of him on the old AOL boards from back then (yes, sadly, I've been reading Patriots boards since '92 or '93.) For a very high draft pick, Willie was considered a huge underperformer especially under Pete Carroll. Things definitely turned around for him under Belichick.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
I don't remember McGinest being considered a bust and I don't consider pro bowl selections a true measure of a player. Plenty of high caliber players get snubbed.

If you go back and look at the top defenses that won Super Bowls, they all had several players at the tops of their positions.

Look at the teams that won it after the Patriots. Tampa Bay had Derrick Brooks, Warren Sapp, Ronde Barber, John Lynch, Simeon Rice & Shelton Quarles. 6 starters made the Pro Bowl.

The Patriots had only Ty Law and Lawyer Milloy.

The Steelers had Troy Polamalu, Joey Porter, Casey Hampton, Aaron Smith, James Farrior.

Even the pass happy Colts had Freeney, Robert Mathis, Bob Sanders, Antoine Bethea, Cato June.

I definitely agree with you that the Pro Bowl/All-Pro doesn't determine who is a top player, but I'm sure there were top players on these teams who were not recognized. as well.

And the whole point was that the Patriots defensive players were not well regarded UNTIL Belichick came along. I never said these weren't top players. I can just recall that Bruschi, for instance, was not considered a top player under Pete Carroll. In fact, he transformed under Belichick. But the same goes for many of these guys. Like Vrabel. Not a top player in Pittsburgh. Willie's career was heavily criticized. Suddenly Belichick comes along, and with only one bonafide star recognized by anyone (Ty Law) they shut down the greatest show on turf.

It's also hard to say that the players just grew or evolved as a natural sign of their progression. Law, McGinest and Bruschi had already played for the Patriots for many years.
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

Team Bill's Worst Nightmare
And the whole point was that the Patriots defensive players were not well regarded UNTIL Belichick came along. I never said these weren't top players.

You said they weren’t star players and have spent days trying to prove that point. Are you really now claiming that “top players” and “star players” aren’t the same thing? Your arguments have gotten to the point of extreme absurdity and laughable contradictions within the same sentences, but I’m not going to let you skate on “top players.” It was your insistence about the opposite that launched this multi-day exchange re: the 2001 defense.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
You said they weren’t star players and have spent days trying to prove that point. Are you really now claiming that “top players” and “star players” aren’t the same thing? Your arguments have gotten to the point of extreme absurdity and laughable contradictions within the same sentences, but I’m not going to let you skate on “top players.” It was your insistence about the opposite that launched this multi-day exchange re: the 2001 defense.

They were NOT star players. No. I've been totally consistent. You're the one that gets confused and addled.

Vrabel, Seymour, Bruschi. NOT STARS.

They became stars later. UNDER Belichick.
 

venecol

The FRG has a little ****
You said they weren’t star players and have spent days trying to prove that point. Are you really now claiming that “top players” and “star players” aren’t the same thing? Your arguments have gotten to the point of extreme absurdity and laughable contradictions within the same sentences, but I’m not going to let you skate on “top players.” It was your insistence about the opposite that launched this multi-day exchange re: the 2001 defense.
Lmao, he's been changing his tune the entire thread. He's all over the place with wrong dates, information, takes, etc.

He's basically said that Bill is a liar and made the worse decision in SB history, yet pretends to be on Team Bill. Truly shameful.
 

RobertWeathers

Chairman & CEO of Team Bill
PatsFans.com Supporter
Bust might have been too strong a word. I just have an absolute sense of how badly fans thought of him on the old AOL boards from back then (yes, sadly, I've been reading Patriots boards since '92 or '93.) For a very high draft pick, Willie was considered a huge underperformer especially under Pete Carroll. Things definitely turned around for him under Belichick.
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Willie was fine under Tuna. Maybe fans thought he should have done more as the 4th overall pick but I thought he was fine. He made the ProBowl in 95 or 96. I forget.

You could say he did not live up to his fat contract extension he signed once Pom Pom joined. He always seemed to have hamstring and groin issues.

Once he changed his training/workout program (he credits AG) he became incredibly durable.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
Lmao, he's been changing his tune the entire thread. He's all over the place with wrong dates, information, takes, etc.

He's basically said that Bill is a liar and made the worse decision in SB history, yet pretends to be on Team Bill. Truly shameful.
Nope. But let's face it. You have the reputation on these boards as the most disreputable poster second to only our most famous twister and liar. It's not me that's saying this, but the vast majority of this board.
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

Team Bill's Worst Nightmare
You have a great deal of difficulty with the English language. And your cut and pasting of what I wrote is pathetic.

(See corrections)

You have a great deal of difficulty with the English language. And, and your cut and pasting cut-and-pasting of what I wrote is pathetic.
 

KontradictioN

Probably the nicest guy on the forum
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Sometimes, it’s best to just take an L and bow out.
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

Team Bill's Worst Nightmare
Nope. But let's face it. You have the reputation on these boards as the most disreputable poster second to only our most famous twister and liar. It's not me that's saying this, but the vast majority of this board.

Please cite a single reference of @venecol being called a "dispreutable poster" or even anything bordering on that. There's a great new search function, so this should be easy for you. I'm sure you wouldn't lie and make things up just to win an argument.
 

Top