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Asante goes off on Bill/Pats organization

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upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
The one being obtuse here is you. To repeat:


Butler DID play in the game. Therefore, saying that Belichick was maintaining a principle by not playing Butler fails because, again....




Butler DID play in the game.



Now, would you care to try arguing that Butler somehow snuck a snap in, in an attempt to salvage your argument? If so, we can talk about BB's incompetence for having that happen.
The fact that you believe this proves anything is laughable.

1. Multiple players are on record as saying they know what Butler did to deserve the punsihment. But you know better than actual Patriot players. Laughable.

2. Belichick has played players plenty of times in the same game he punished them. For instance, Wes Welker was benched for a series or a quarter. But he played. This is not contradictory at all.

3. If Butler did something that prevented him from taking part in that week's preparations on defense, it's not a mystery as to why he wouldn't see the field, even after he saw time on special teams. He was still punished.

You're the only one here arguing he wasn't being punished.
 

The Brandon Five

PatsFans.com Supporter
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2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
The fact that you believe this proves anything is laughable.

1. Multiple players are on record as saying they know what Butler did to deserve the punsihment. But you know better than actual Patriot players. Laughable.

2. Belichick has played players plenty of times in the same game he punished them. For instance, Wes Welker was benched for a series or a quarter. But he played. This is not contradictory at all.

3. If Butler did something that prevented him from taking part in that week's preparations on defense, it's not a mystery as to why he wouldn't see the field, even after he saw time on special teams. He was still punished.

You're the only one here arguing he wasn't being punished.
I guess losing the Super Bowl was worth it then. Point made!

Imagine the horror if they won and that meant Malcolm got away with something.
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

Team Bill's Worst Nightmare
The fact that you believe this proves anything is laughable.

1. Multiple players are on record as saying they know what Butler did to deserve the punsihment. But you know better than actual Patriot players. Laughable.

2. Belichick has played players plenty of times in the same game he punished them. For instance, Wes Welker was benched for a series or a quarter. But he played. This is not contradictory at all.

3. If Butler did something that prevented him from taking part in that week's preparations on defense, it's not a mystery as to why he wouldn't see the field, even after he saw time on special teams. He was still punished.

You're the only one here arguing he wasn't being punished.

Now that we agree there’s a very, very strong chance this was a punishment because Bill couldn’t possibly as stupid as some on here claiming it was an Xs and Os ”advantage" to keep him out, let’s assess this decision’s impact on the organization:
  • Pros: Bill upheld the standard of the organization and refused to bend the rules, which you’ve been cheering about.
  • Cons: The Patriots allowed over 500 yards to a backup QB, their backup CBs got torched, they had the most yardage of all-time in a loss, Brady’s legacy game was wasted, the organization wasted an opportunity to be the only three-peat champs in the Super Bowl era, and numerous reporters have cited this game as the one where Belichick lost the team, leading to the departure of two all-time great players who went on to win a Super Bowl elsewhere
Don’t you think Bill should just let it be known about what Butler did? You know, to justify that decision?
 
Last edited:

Deus Irae

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
PatsFans.com Supporter
The fact that you believe this proves anything is laughable.

1. Multiple players are on record as saying they know what Butler did to deserve the punsihment. But you know better than actual Patriot players. Laughable.

2. Belichick has played players plenty of times in the same game he punished them. For instance, Wes Welker was benched for a series or a quarter. But he played. This is not contradictory at all.

3. If Butler did something that prevented him from taking part in that week's preparations on defense, it's not a mystery as to why he wouldn't see the field, even after he saw time on special teams. He was still punished.

You're the only one here arguing he wasn't being punished.
It proves multiple things, actually.

First, it proves that your argument is dead on arrival. Butler played. Therefore, Butler wasn't benched for the whole game. This is beyond question.

Second, it proves that you haven't bothered to think before posting.
 

203Pat

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
"One unconfirmed scenario for why Butler didn’t play may be traced to that practice. Supposedly, there was a dustup with safeties coach Steve Belichick. Butler was told to take the field for a special teams session he didn’t normally participate in. Butler balked. Steve Belichick got after Butler for balking. Butler bit back."

There's also word that someone from the defensive side of the ball told Belichick to bench Butler, that's why nobody knew it was going to happen until right before the game. Could it have been Little Steven?

"If that was the case, it’s understandable why Belichick would want to be particularly tight-lipped about it. And Butler too, perhaps."

I don't think it's a coincidence the high number of coaches that departed after SB 52. A bunch of good players also left since then. It was the beginning of the end, though they managed to pull of that win the following year.
If this is true to me it makes it so much worse.
 

venecol

The FRG has a little ****
The fact that you believe this proves anything is laughable.

1. Multiple players are on record as saying they know what Butler did to deserve the punsihment. But you know better than actual Patriot players. Laughable.

2. Belichick has played players plenty of times in the same game he punished them. For instance, Wes Welker was benched for a series or a quarter. But he played. This is not contradictory at all.

3. If Butler did something that prevented him from taking part in that week's preparations on defense, it's not a mystery as to why he wouldn't see the field, even after he saw time on special teams. He was still punished.

You're the only one here arguing he wasn't being punished.
But that's not what Bill has said. He has repeatedly said the benching was a "football decision" and not related to a "team infraction."

Are you saying Bill Belichick is a liar?

tenor(5).gif
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
But that's not what Bill has said. He has repeatedly said the benching was a "football decision" and not related to a "team infraction."

Are you saying Bill Belichick is a liar?

View attachment 30716
Has Bill ever slagged a player in a press conference? What did he say about Welker? Name one player Belichick ever downed in a press conference. Apparently, every single Patriot has been a perfect angel for 20 years because Bill has neversaid a negative thing about a player in all that time.

And all the other Patriots who said they know it was a punishment are liars, but you guys are right. Nothing happened to put him a the dog house. The Patriots players are liars.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
It proves multiple things, actually.

First, it proves that your argument is dead on arrival. Butler played. Therefore, Butler wasn't benched for the whole game. This is beyond question.

Second, it proves that you haven't bothered to think before posting.

I said Butler was benched the whole game?

You're making stuff up now.

You're embarrassing yourself.

I said the opposite.

I said Belichick has disciplined players and played them in the same game.

I said the exact OPPOSITE of what you said I said

But that's only the 10,000th time you've pulled that same schmuckiness on this board.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
Now that we agree there’s a very, very strong chance this was a punishment because Bill couldn’t possibly as stupid as some on here claiming it was an Xs and Os ”advantage" to keep him out, let’s assess this decision’s impact on the organization:
  • Pros: Bill upheld the standard of the organization and refused to bend the rules, which you’ve been cheering about.
  • Cons: The Patriots allowed over 500 yards to a backup QB, their backup CBs got torched, they had the most yardage of all-time in a loss, Brady’s legacy game was wasted, the organization wasted an opportunity to be the only three-peat champs in the Super Bowl era, and numerous reporters have cited this game as the one where Belichick lost the team, leading to the departure of two all-time great players who went on to win a Super Bowl elsewhere
Don’t you think Bill should just let it be known about what Butler did? You know, to justify that decision?

No... I don't. It doesn't really matter. And Bill keeps the same standard of not slagging people publicly.
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

Team Bill's Worst Nightmare
No... I don't. It doesn't really matter. And Bill keeps the same standard of not slagging people publicly.

Sure, they've never held a press conference to crap on a player, but there are frequent reports about players being disciplined, reasons given, etc. There are certainly no gag orders like in the case of Butler's benching. Bill's Patriots organization doesn't "slag" people publicly? When was that ever a a reality?

Oh right...only when it fits your argument.

You tell me - just using your own judgment right now - why at this point in time it is no longer in the best interest of the organization to reveal what happened with Butler? Fans are customers and want to know; criticism continues to mount, three years later; people just want to know that Bill made a reasonable decision.

If Butler put his hands on a coach, like Little Steven, I think it's a tough decision for a coach to make considering it's the Super Bowl, but I wouldn't say Bill is totally wrong for doing that either. If Butler is actually a raging alcoholic who went on a bender all week and was MIA, then I understand the reasoning, though in hindsight maybe it was still worth a shot to play him.

But I suspect that the reason for stonewalling, at this point, with negative benefit to the organization, is that it makes Bill look foolish. And your empty mantras like "it's an in-house issue" or "this is the way they've always handled discipline and secrecy" is just not cutting it here. If Bill wants to give the fans (customers who pay his salary) an explanation, I'll give him a tremendous amount of benefit of the doubt for his decision making process. Unless that happens, I feel it's only reasonable to call him out for a bad decision and the burden is on him to change that perception.
 

tasmlab

Starting QB, won 20 SBs, number is retired
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Bitter NE players that were happy to sacrifice to win while playing are now out of football and wish they had the money instead.

Ive always said that you cant drive or live in a Super Bowl ring.

Did Asante sacrifice anything to win? IIRC, he played out his rookie contract and then signed a big contract in FA with the Eagles as soon as humanly possible.

"Samuel was thought to be one of the most sought-after free agents of the 2008 NFL offseason. Within minutes of the start of free agency on February 29, 2008, Samuel was reportedly already setting up a meeting with the Philadelphia Eagles.[9] Later that day, he signed a six-year, $56 million contract with the Eagles."
 

venecol

The FRG has a little ****
Has Bill ever slagged a player in a press conference? What did he say about Welker? Name one player Belichick ever downed in a press conference. Apparently, every single Patriot has been a perfect angel for 20 years because Bill has neversaid a negative thing about a player in all that time.

And all the other Patriots who said they know it was a punishment are liars, but you guys are right. Nothing happened to put him a the dog house. The Patriots players are liars.
So you're confirming that Belichick lied to all national and world media. Patricia also lied to everyone when he said they put the guys out there that gave them the best match ups. Players saying it was a "coaches decision" and they knew Butler wouldn't start but didn't know he wouldn't play at all also lied.

Thanks for confirming that you believe the Patriots is just full of liars.
 

XLIX

Pro Bowl Player
Did Asante sacrifice anything to win? IIRC, he played out his rookie contract and then signed a big contract in FA with the Eagles as soon as humanly possible.
Well, he may be resenting how little control he had over his own contracts during his time in New England. He was drafted in the days before draft pick salaries were slotted. New England notoriously played hardball with such picks. Then he was franchised, so that's another year of no control (albeit, a more highly paid one).

But yes he was a guy who, despite his statements on the matter, was clearly more interested in making money than in winning. I don't really have any problem with that, it just is an attitude that didn't make for a good fit for NE over the past 20 years.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
Sure, they've never held a press conference to crap on a player, but there are frequent reports about players being disciplined, reasons given, etc. There are certainly no gag orders like in the case of Butler's benching. Bill's Patriots organization doesn't "slag" people publicly? When was that ever a a reality?

Oh right...only when it fits your argument.

You tell me - just using your own judgment right now - why at this point in time it is no longer in the best interest of the organization to reveal what happened with Butler? Fans are customers and want to know; criticism continues to mount, three years later; people just want to know that Bill made a reasonable decision.

If Butler put his hands on a coach, like Little Steven, I think it's a tough decision for a coach to make considering it's the Super Bowl, but I wouldn't say Bill is totally wrong for doing that either. If Butler is actually a raging alcoholic who went on a bender all week and was MIA, then I understand the reasoning, though in hindsight maybe it was still worth a shot to play him.

But I suspect that the reason for stonewalling, at this point, with negative benefit to the organization, is that it makes Bill look foolish. And your empty mantras like "it's an in-house issue" or "this is the way they've always handled discipline and secrecy" is just not cutting it here. If Bill wants to give the fans (customers who pay his salary) an explanation, I'll give him a tremendous amount of benefit of the doubt for his decision making process. Unless that happens, I feel it's only reasonable to call him out for a bad decision and the burden is on him to change that perception.
Lame.

Bill doesn't diss people in press conferences.

You're arguing that because Bill didn't go into details about the Butler decision, it wasn't a punishment. As though Bill ever went over this stuff in ANY press conference ever.

But go on in your delusions. I would trust the Patriots players 1000x over you.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
So you're confirming that Belichick lied to all national and world media. Patricia also lied to everyone when he said they put the guys out there that gave them the best match ups. Players saying it was a "coaches decision" and they knew Butler wouldn't start but didn't know he wouldn't play at all also lied.

Thanks for confirming that you believe the Patriots is just full of liars.
It astounds me that a fan of this team could think that for 20 years, Belichick could hold weekly press conferences, never lay out his crds truthfully about players, never once, and you could go away from that and think, welp, there must be no problems at all with players, because after all, Belichick never said it once in his press conference, and BB would always be forthcoming with the press, and reveal everything to them.

Also, there are no nationwide caricatures of BB and his total unwillingness to reveal much of anything in his press conferences.

You guys are delusional if you think I would possibly buy your lame logic in all this over the comments of many Patriots, especially those of Devin McCourty who is absolutely on the record saying he knew what Malcolm did.
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

Team Bill's Worst Nightmare
Sure, they've never held a press conference to crap on a player, but there are frequent reports about players being disciplined, reasons given, etc. There are certainly no gag orders like in the case of Butler's benching.

Lame.

Bill doesn't diss people in press conferences.

You're arguing that because Bill didn't go into details about the Butler decision, it wasn't a punishment. As though Bill ever went over this stuff in ANY press conference ever.

But go on in your delusions. I would trust the Patriots players 1000x over you.

:rolleyes:
 

venecol

The FRG has a little ****
It astounds me that a fan of this team could think that for 20 years, Belichick could hold weekly press conferences, never lay out his crds truthfully about players, never once, and you could go away from that and think, welp, there must be no problems at all with players, because after all, Belichick never said it once in his press conference, and BB would always be forthcoming with the press, and reveal everything to them.

Also, there are no nationwide caricatures of BB and his total unwillingness to reveal much of anything in his press conferences.

You guys are delusional if you think I would possibly buy your lame logic in all this over the comments of many Patriots, especially those of Devin McCourty who is absolutely on the record saying he knew what Malcolm did.
Devin McCorty said he knew Malcolm would not start, but had no idea he would play zero snaps. Eric Rowe said the same thing.

You do realize there is a "football" decision element to benching Butler. Eagles having tall receivers being a poor match for Butler, and the strategy to encourage them to pass more because Bill knew team couldn't stop the run (their weakness).

Bill has never wavered on it was a "football decision" that placed the team in a better position to win line.

This is no normal weekly press conference. There were multiple times where he was asked over and over again about the Butler benching: "why Bill why?"

You believe he told them it was a football decision but it was really Bill punishing him but lying about it to cover for Butler? That just makes it way worse, both in his lying about the reason for the benching and in keeping him out of the entire game over a "minor team infraction" as reported.

Wow dude, you're digging yourself into a hole.
 

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