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Asante goes off on Bill/Pats organization

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upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
I don't even though why we're discussing this at all. There were bad decisions in all 3 Super Bowl losses.Heck, Belichick apologized to the team in '07. In 2011 we had the Giants on the ropes and then our OC went away from the pass as we threw the ball for short gains, relentlessly, the Giants were gassed, and they brought their big boys in to stuff us and make us lose yards. That more than the Welker drop lost the team the game.
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

Team Bill's Worst Nightmare
It's not denial at all. Once you don't care about accountability, there is no accountability. It's as simple as that. You either have the standard or you don't. If so much of the Patriots culture and the Patriots way is about players unfailingingly coming the practice / workouts early and holding up their responsibilities, then you do whatever it takes to maintain the standard.

If you give people a few breaks here or there, you're opening the door to people accusing you of double standards, and that warps the team mindset.

Hmmm...

 

Deus Irae

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
PatsFans.com Supporter
It's not wrong. You seem intent on looking as ridiculous as before, but let me try, again, to get you off that path. Think hard on what I'm about to post...


BUTLER PLAYED IN THE GAME, SO BUTLER NOT PLAYING BECAUSE OF DISCIPLINARY REASONS DOESN'T HOLD WATER. YOU CANNOT HAVE ONE WITH THE OTHER.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
It's not wrong. You seem intent on looking as ridiculous as before, but let me try, again, to get you off that path. Think hard on what I'm about to post...


BUTLER PLAYED IN THE GAME, SO BUTLER NOT PLAYING BECAUSE OF DISCIPLINARY REASONS DOESN'T HOLD WATER. YOU CANNOT HAVE ONE WITH THE OTHER.

I can't believe I'm even writing this. Everyone but you realizes he was punished for disciplinary reasons. Holy smokes. Plenty of players on the team have already said they know the reasons but are unwilling to go on the record. I can't believe you're this obtuse.
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

Team Bill's Worst Nightmare
I can't believe I'm even writing this. Everyone but you realizes he was punished for disciplinary reasons. Holy smokes. Plenty of players on the team have already said they know the reasons but are unwilling to go on the record. I can't believe you're this obtuse.

You should huddle up with the rest of Team Bill. It seems you’re not in alignment.
 

ivanvamp

In the Starting Line-Up
Until someone squeals, we simply will not ever know what really happened with Butler in the week leading up to the game, and the decision to have him not play at all but the one special teams play. So much of it makes sense, and so much of it DOESN'T make sense.

I mean, it's more believable to me that BB didn't want Butler to play at all except in an emergency, and that someone screwed up and let him play the one special teams play, than that BB felt that it was the "right" move for him to play just the one special teams play. Because here's the number of special teams snaps he played that year:

- 2016 season: 0
- Regular season: 0
- Postseason before the Super Bowl: 1

He was a regular ST player in 2015, but for two full seasons he had played no ST snaps. So it would have been bizarre to suddenly think he was the right guy to play ST in the Super Bowl, unless it truly was an emergency or - my theory - a mistake made by the ST coach.
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
Hahahaha

Steven: Hey Malcolm, I need you to line up for this ST play.
MB: Yea, I don't play ST.
Steven: Listen, you better do what I say or I'm telling Dad.
MB: I don't care what you do cracker.
Steven: You don't want to make me mad bro.
MB: What were you and Jonathan Pizarro really doing in that dark parking lot when you got arrested back in 2006?
Steven: That's it, you'll play in the SB over my dead body.
MB: Whatever cracker.

The rest is history.
Pardon an old out-of-towner's ignorance, but who's Jonathan Pizarro? Is he related to Juan Pizarro?
 
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Rob0729

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
I am sure some of what Samuel said was true. I am sure some of it is just sour grapes. And the truth is probably somewhere between Samuel's recounting of the story and whatever the Patriots/Belichick's position would be.

Let's face it. There are guys who feel Belichick treated them like crap and didn't give them the respect they deserved. And there are guys who would run through a wall for Belichick. Belichick is more of a hard ass that many other coaches and GMs in this league. So there are probably more players who have bad things to say about him than most.

But a lot of the players with gripes against Belichick probably cannot look into the mirror and accept that they weren't worthy of some of the respect they feel Belichick should have given them. Not saying Samuel is one, but TO mentioned Adalius Thomas is his bud and had similar things to say about Belichick. Now there is a guy who deserved every bit of his time in Belichick's dog house.
 

venecol

The FRG has a little ****
It's not denial at all. Once you don't care about accountability, there is no accountability. It's as simple as that. You either have the standard or you don't. If so much of the Patriots culture and the Patriots way is about players unfailingingly coming to practice / workouts early and holding up their responsibilities, then you do whatever it takes to maintain the standard.

If you give people a few breaks here or there, you're opening the door to people accusing you of double standards, and that warps the team mindset.
Are you so naive to believe Belichick doesn't have favorites? Come on man, he's a human being not an android.
 

Deus Irae

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
PatsFans.com Supporter
I can't believe I'm even writing this. Everyone but you realizes he was punished for disciplinary reasons. Holy smokes. Plenty of players on the team have already said they know the reasons but are unwilling to go on the record. I can't believe you're this obtuse.

The one being obtuse here is you. To repeat:


Butler DID play in the game. Therefore, saying that Belichick was maintaining a principle by not playing Butler fails because, again....




Butler DID play in the game.



Now, would you care to try arguing that Butler somehow snuck a snap in, in an attempt to salvage your argument? If so, we can talk about BB's incompetence for having that happen.
 

crawhammer

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
"One unconfirmed scenario for why Butler didn’t play may be traced to that practice. Supposedly, there was a dustup with safeties coach Steve Belichick. Butler was told to take the field for a special teams session he didn’t normally participate in. Butler balked. Steve Belichick got after Butler for balking. Butler bit back."
The Butler confrontation with Steven Belichick has been circulating since shortly after the Super Bowl. Certainly seems more plausible than Butler had the sniffles or missed a curfew. The interesting twist is the bit about the special teams session and Butler balking at participation. It lines up with Bill Belichick dressing Butler for the sole purpose of playing him in the Super Bowl for one special teams play just to stick it to him. Looking at Butler's snap counts he hadn't played a special teams snap for the entire 2017 season. If this specific reason for the benching were ever to be verified then Bill and Steven need to escorted out of the building and never heard from again faster than Jastremski and McNally.
 

pazrul72

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
They played well as a team and did their job while being physical but they did not just line up and blow people away with “talent”.

Can you explain what this means, citing specific examples? How does this differ from the 2000 Patriots? How does this differ from other teams in the league? Did the Raiders, Steelers, and Rams run around without assignments? Did they not play physical? I really need specifics. I gave you specifics about which players made the Patriots defense so good down the stretch; I said it was great players. You're trying to minimize this. Explain what you mean and stop using generalizations and statements that have no meaning like "did their job while being physical." I cited specific players, so surely you can cite specific plays, concepts, coaching strategies, etc.
I absolutely could explain in more detail but I would need a classroom with a video player and blackboard. What you are asking is WAY too detailed for a message board forum. Offense is easier to see so I will give you a small example that came to mind. In 2007 against Miami Randy Moss went up in between two perfectly positioned DBs 50 yards down field and just out jumped them. He was just that freakishly talented that it didn't matter if the DBs played it right or the coaches called the right coverage. They in fact did both. Compare that to other receivers who need a deep route to clear the safety and the qb to look off the LB so they can put it into a 2 ft window. The 2001 Patriot defense was no Moss just oozing with talent that could line up and beat their opponents. They out smarted and out schemed them which is a sign of excellent coaching. If you seriously want to claim that they had 6 All pros so were one of the greatest defenses of all time then I dont know what to tell you besides watch more football and learn to recognize what you are watching.
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

Team Bill's Worst Nightmare
I absolutely could explain in more detail but I would need a classroom with a video player and blackboard. What you are asking is WAY too detailed for a message board forum. Offense is easier to see so I will give you a small example that came to mind. In 2007 against Miami Randy Moss went up in between two perfectly positioned DBs 50 yards down field and just out jumped them. He was just that freakishly talented that it didn't matter if the DBs played it right or the coaches called the right coverage. They in fact did both. Compare that to other receivers who need a deep route to clear the safety and the qb to look off the LB so they can put it into a 2 ft window. The 2001 Patriot defense was no Moss just oozing with talent that could line up and beat their opponents. They out smarted and out schemed them which is a sign of excellent coaching. If you seriously want to claim that they had 6 All pros so were one of the greatest defenses of all time then I dont know what to tell you besides watch more football and learn to recognize what you are watching.

So...nothing then.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
Are you so naive to believe Belichick doesn't have favorites? Come on man, he's a human being not an android.
Being late to practice? No. That's accountability. Favorites are irrelevant when it comes to common standards. You might be a favorite because you've done hard work, put the team first, etc., but it's not exactly shocking that Asante would never have been Belichick's favorite. Do I believe even the top players would face ramifications like benching if they had unexcused absences or lateness? Yes of course
 

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