Belichick criticism mega-thread

[PatsWSB47]

Btw check my account. I've been on this board since 2006. I just don't post here often because I find most Patriots fans to be dumb as ****

I'm the sane one. Its everyone else that's crazy

 

[ivanvamp]

Dude, the point is that BB’s poor decisions regarding benching Butler led to the loss. In that context he “threw” the game, since that mistake was easily avoidable. He didn’t deliberately try to lose but the mistake was so egrigious and so avoidable, it might as well be said that he “threw” it. It’s a hyperbole. Basically BB fcked up.

Well this is why I asked him. It’s nice that you’re speaking for him I suppose. I’m sure he appreciates it.

 

[RobertWeathers]

This entire thread...

 

[SteveBsFan]

This is actually incorrect since I personally know Mookie. He wanted to stay, he just wanted the Sox to meet a certain number

What part of my statement was incorrect?

Having a preference which team overpays for him didn't invalidate him being a mercenary looking for the most money. If he wanted to stay in Boston, he could have stayed.

Guy crosses the 7 WAR mark twice in his career and thinks he's worth a third of a billion dollars? Please.

 

[Tony2046]

Guys, if Tom didn't want to be here he could've left 15 years earlier. He didn't need to stay and if he did, that's on him. Don't like the drafts, leave. Don't like the coaching, leave. I assume he saw the value proposition and stayed. Tom wasn't a prisoner.

Looking more like LongtimeLastTime.

 

[SteveBsFan]

Brady in fact was not in a steady decline. Not ever. The ONLY season of his entire career where his play dipped due to any decline in his capabilities was 2009. And that was because he had missed an entire season with the ACL and he was working his way back into form.

OK. We'll just ignore the fact that his stats were literally on a four year decline from 2016-2019.

The decline was obviously slower between 16-18 than it was between 18-19 but a decline is a decline. When you add in his age, it's like owning a 2005 Honda Civic with 250k miles and pretending it's going to last forever even though you've noticed a decline in performance the last 50k miles or so.

Brady fans will cry about this forever. That's expected because it's just the nature of the Boston fanbase (people STILL cry over Nomar). But anyone who thinks it was foolish for Belichick to start planning ahead as his qb is hitting 40 is either dumb or related to Brady.

Remember when everyone understood that Elway was old and tired when he hung them up? He was only 38. Manning was 38 before falling off a cliff. Favre was 38 before embarrassing himself in NY. Marino was 38. Kelly was 36. Montana was 34 before beginning to fall apart.

I will say this until I die. If Belichick signed a 39-40 year old Brady to some crazy 4-5 year contract that took up 10-15% of the cap, the SAME people currently crying would want BB's head unless Brady was perfect the entire contract.

Too many here listen to garbage sports radio where most are extremely biased because they hate Belichick. He's too mean and difficult toward reporters so they trash him and that rubs off on fans.

 

[SteveBsFan]

I read your posts. As I said, you don't know what you're talking about. And you didn't actually say that his stats were in decline (which is both misleading and not entirely true). You said that Brady was on a steady decline, which is not the same.



Belichick criticism mega-thread

I linked an image to his stats when I said that. I assumed people would connect the dots. I clearly assumed wrong

 

[Tony2046]

We all know Brady isn't "perfect", it goes without saying.

Your post is impressively detailed but there's no season-crippling mistake in there. I mean you're pointing out incompletions which is gratuitous scrutiny. But since you put in the time I'll give it all consideration.


On the safety throw he was about to get clobbered by Tuck in the end zone. The refs very easily could have let that go but technically the call was correct. Brady had a window to get it to Welker over the middle on the play but apparently didn't see him. Bad play but it's down on the list of plays that determined the outcome of the game.

The Patriots defense had a horrible sequence on the drive following the safety. They were late getting defenders on and off the field. They had a turnover wiped out by a 12-men on the field penalty... that's on Belichick and it cost the team 7 points.

You're riffling off incompletions, of which he only had 14, and 7 of them were the safety, the pick, the Welker drop, the Branch drop (on the final drive), the Hernandez drop (on the final drive), a spike (on the final drive), and the hail mary. Overall he completed 66% of his passes.

On the pick Brady made a great play to avoid a sack and was fortunate to even get the pass off. The pass was on target and Gronk, who was worthless in the game with the ankle injury, had the ball ripped away by a backup stiff linebacker. Had Gronk been healthy for this game they would have won it.

The Welker drop was a game-killer. He makes that catch and the game's probably over... at worst they're up 5 with NYG having little time to drive the field with no timeouts. As it was Belichick, as he's prone to do, held off on using his timeouts to conserve time for the Patriots offense and it cost them 40 seconds they could have used on the final drive.

Of all the things you're knocking Brady for in this game, I'll give him heat for safety play, but for something you didn't mention, which was missing Welker over the middle.

Brady wasn't bad in SB 46. He made some very good throws under duress and they were in position to win the game late in the 4th quarter but the defense gave up it's second Super Bowl game-winning drive to Eli Manning, who is not a good quarterback.


Brady wasn't good in the AFCCG but they won the game so your point is moot. I want season-crippling mistakes. Not poor play in a win.


There's a lot to unpack there. Again, discussing a victory is pointless so I'll stick with the losses. Chronologically...

Firstly, Brady did not have 29 incompletions in SB 42. But anyway, we all know the story of this SB... the Patriots OL got destroyed. NYG totally stuffed the running game and pressured Brady from start to finish. That Brady was able to drive the offense down the field for the lead late in the 4th quarter was miraculous. It should have been enough to win the game but the defense allowed Eli Manning to drive 83 yards for the loss. The TD pass to Burress was an abomination. No way the sideline should have let that play happen with 5'8" Hobbs in isolation on 6'5" Burress... a timeout has got to be called there by Belichick.

I hope we're not putting the '09 wild card loss on Brady, right? Baltimore did one thing all day long on offense, hand the ball off, and the Patriots were clueless to stop it. Belichick should lose his defensive genius credentials for this game alone.

The '10 divisional game was the asinine Welker benching which had Brady throwing screen passes to the law firm on the opening drive. The Jets got a FG off the pick and thereafter Brady played well in this game... 250, 2 TD's, 0 INT's and a QBR over 100. The most costly gaff of this game was the ill-advised fake punt that gave the Jets a short field with a minute left in the half. WTF! was that?


2006 was the first of three seasons (including 2013 and 2019) when Belichick completely f*cked over Brady with a half-assed roster. It showed up in this game starting with Caldwell dropping a walk-in TD. Sure, Brady wasn't good in this game, but he was surrounded by trash all season. Also, I've yet to hear a good explanation for why Belichick started Eric Alexander, a career special teamer, and then just sat back while he got torched by TE's all night.


2012 postseason... they got beat by a better team and totally outplayed on both sides of the ball in the second half.
2013 postseason... they had very little chance in Denver who was a much better team that season. The Patriots skill position players were a joke that season.
2015 postseason... are we seriously getting on Brady for this game? He converted two 4th-down plays just to give them a chance for the tie. Denver's defense was all-time great that season, even still, the Patriots should have represented the AFC in the Super Bowl... Belichick completely butchered the end of the regular season (weeks 13, 16 &17) which knocked the Patriots out of the 1 seed.
2019 postseason... fitting end to a hopeless season. From week 9 on through the postseason the team wasn't any good on either side of the ball. Belichick's clock management and (lack of) use of timeouts was awful in the final regular season game and the wild card game. Brady, Belichick, the entire team... not good by the end of the season.

If we want to flip this around then I can point to a bunch of clutch postseason games, plays and game-winning moments by Brady. More than any other NFL player by a longshot. And now he's doing it with another franchise, which is unprecedented, and has him being discussed as the greatest player ever across all professional sports. But yes, you've proved everything he does is not perfect.

 

[Deus Irae]

I linked an image to his stats when I said that. I assumed people would connect the dots. I clearly assumed wrong

I read your post. You seem to think stats, which weren't universally in decline, and which don't take into account seasonal variables, are the end all be all. I assumed you were capable of understanding that an MVP season is not a season of decline. I clearly assumed wrong.

And that's my fault, since I should have figured out your inability to understand how context works just by the fact that you were looking at part of a 4 SB in 5 season stretch as being in that period of "decline".

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Brady fans will cry about this forever. That's expected because it's just the nature of the Boston fanbase (people STILL cry over Nomar). But anyone who thinks it was foolish for Belichick to start planning ahead as his qb is hitting 40 is either dumb or related to Brady.

 

[Biffins]

Albert Breer has lost his mind: MMQB: Super Bowles, Watt and Texans Mess, Trevor Lawrence

I was embarrassed just reading what he wrote about Brandin Cooks.

Cooks was traded because he's always been the same Brandin Cooks wherever he went. And he was worth a 1st rounder.

If they traded Cooks to play with anyone other than Brady, you'll have to tell me why so many teams have moved on from him (even though he's a good WR and has talent). But are the Saints, Patriots, Rams and soon the Texans all wrong about the same guy? He is likely an excellent #2, but not capable of doing what you brought him in to do.

In Brady's first game with Cooks, he went deep to him 5 times, 1x 25+ yards, one time 54 yards, and a 26 yard DPI. He went deep to Cooks all year to good affect. But no one here cried when Cooks went away because we didn't see a game breaker. His game was quite similar to Brandon Lloyd's, who was a really really good #2.

I'll copy paste the relevant paragraphs from Breer's article for anyone interested


3) A lot of Matthew Stafford’s words to Mitch Albom were interesting. But I thought a combination of two things the new Rams QB said to Albom, the legendary Detroit sports columnist, really stood out above the rest. In Albom’s second column off the interview, Stafford seemed to acknowledge (by not confirming or denying) that the Patriots weren’t on his list of preferred destinations. He then said this about his old coach, Matt Patricia: “He and I had a good relationship, no matter what anybody wants to say. I could go into his office and talk to him, he could get me on the phone whenever he needed to. I think we both grew in that relationship. I have a lot of respect for him and who he is, as a football coach and an unbelievable mind.” That jibes with what I’d heard, which was that after a rocky start, Stafford and Patricia’s relationship improved, to the point where it really was, like Stafford is saying, healthy in their last year together. Remember, at that point, they’d been through a lot together, from Stafford’s wife Kelly’s brain tumor to all the challenges that 2020 brought. And so the idea that Patricia’s presence in New England kept him off Stafford’s list, to me, was always shaky. The reality is actually worse for the Patriots—that list of preferred destinations, Stafford told Albom, was all based on having an ability to win a championship. And so you could deduce that Stafford didn’t see the Patriots that way, which takes away the carrot that Bill Belichick has dangled in front of free agents for two decades. One year post-Brady, and New England looks like it will be in line with everyone else trying to attract veteran players, without the ring-chasing lure it’s possessed forever.

4) Speaking of the Patriots’ rebuild, I think Belichick’s actually been forthright in saying things went sideways when Brady found a way to maintain his level of play. And my smoking gun in the whole thing is Brandin Cooks. My understanding is Cooks was initially acquired, in 2017, as a piece for Jimmy Garoppolo, not Brady—with the feeling being that the Patriots would play more of a downfield game once Garoppolo became the quarterback, presumably in 2018. And that played out. Cooks was a good player, but a bit of an awkward fit for Brady stylistically in 2017. Brady, for his part, didn’t drop off, even a little. That year, he was the NFL’s MVP. That, of course, hastened the trade of Garoppolo to San Francisco and, months later, the trade of Cooks, who simply didn’t carry the same value to the team that he would’ve had the team morphed its offense to what Garoppolo did well in 2018. Beyond that story just being an interesting one, it also shows how Brady’s play wound up bastardizing the rebuild a little. At that point, the Patriots were older, and had a bunch of heavy contracts tied to those players. With Brady proving he could still win championships, the expected rebuild got pushed back a year, then, after Brady won his sixth title in 2018, two years. Eventually, the dam did break. But the Patriots got another ring out of it, with the downside being the contract debt they built up in keeping those teams together (also, drafting well could’ve solved some of this, and the Patriots didn’t draft well). And while it was a zillion percent worth it, the Patriots did pay the price in carrying around $30 million in dead money last fall. Now, with the books clean, we get to see if Belichick can build back what he initially expected to build back two or three years ago.

 

[Tony2046]

OK. We'll just ignore the fact that his stats were literally on a four year decline from 2016-2019.

The decline was obviously slower between 16-18 than it was between 18-19 but a decline is a decline. When you add in his age, it's like owning a 2005 Honda Civic with 250k miles and pretending it's going to last forever even though you've noticed a decline in performance the last 50k miles or so.

Brady fans will cry about this forever. That's expected because it's just the nature of the Boston fanbase (people STILL cry over Nomar). But anyone who thinks it was foolish for Belichick to start planning ahead as his qb is hitting 40 is either dumb or related to Brady.

Remember when everyone understood that Elway was old and tired when he hung them up? He was only 38. Manning was 38 before falling off a cliff. Favre was 38 before embarrassing himself in NY. Marino was 38. Kelly was 36. Montana was 34 before beginning to fall apart.

I will say this until I die. If Belichick signed a 39-40 year old Brady to some crazy 4-5 year contract that took up 10-15% of the cap, the SAME people currently crying would want BB's head unless Brady was perfect the entire contract.

Too many here listen to garbage sports radio where most are extremely biased because they hate Belichick. He's too mean and difficult toward reporters so they trash him and that rubs off on fans.

I'm sensing a troll war. The Stevie BS vs the Crackspankers. Holy shyt.

 

[upstater1]

I'll copy paste the relevant paragraphs from Breer's article for anyone interested

The reality is actually worse for the Patriots—that list of preferred destinations, Stafford told Albom, was all based on having an ability to win a championship. And so you could deduce that Stafford didn’t see the Patriots that way, which takes away the carrot that Bill Belichick has dangled in front of free agents for two decades. One year post-Brady, and New England looks like it will be in line with everyone else trying to attract veteran players, without the ring-chasing lure it’s possessed forever.

I seriously want to know however, who are these free agents who helped us so much? I can only think of Revis and Rodney Harrison, and Harrison joined very early after a non-playoff year.

Gilmore signed for top dollar, more than he was offered elsewhere, so he doesn't count.

Every other guy who helped us we traded for: Vrabel, Ninkovich, Moss, Welker, Cooks, Dillon, etc.

There have been FA signings who never really helped us win much at all, like Rosevelt Colvin, Adalius Thomas, Junior Seau, Antonio Brown, Chad Ochocinco, Joey Galloway, etc.

And then there are a whole bunch of guys who would be considered middle class NFL players who came to New England because we offered more in that salary range than other teams: Stallworth, Lloyd, Ted Washington, etc.

I don't see the Patriots hurt by any of this at all.

Based on the thesis here, we'd miss out on Revis. That's it.

 

[Boomer B]

OK. We'll just ignore the fact that his stats were literally on a four year decline from 2016-2019.

The decline was obviously slower between 16-18 than it was between 18-19 but a decline is a decline. When you add in his age, it's like owning a 2005 Honda Civic with 250k miles and pretending it's going to last forever even though you've noticed a decline in performance the last 50k miles or so.

Brady fans will cry about this forever. That's expected because it's just the nature of the Boston fanbase (people STILL cry over Nomar). But anyone who thinks it was foolish for Belichick to start planning ahead as his qb is hitting 40 is either dumb or related to Brady.

Remember when everyone understood that Elway was old and tired when he hung them up? He was only 38. Manning was 38 before falling off a cliff. Favre was 38 before embarrassing himself in NY. Marino was 38. Kelly was 36. Montana was 34 before beginning to fall apart.

I will say this until I die. If Belichick signed a 39-40 year old Brady to some crazy 4-5 year contract that took up 10-15% of the cap, the SAME people currently crying would want BB's head unless Brady was perfect the entire contract.

Too many here listen to garbage sports radio where most are extremely biased because they hate Belichick. He's too mean and difficult toward reporters so they trash him and that rubs off on fans.

Brady never wanted 4-5 year deals. He wanted the Brees 2 years $50m. That’s all it would have taken. So what is the worst that could have happened, Brady slips and isn’t a top 10 QB anymore? Well, we got worse then that anyways last year! We saw the most inept offensive football in the league. So would it really have been so bad for the Pats to have Brady slip at some point when we had no succession plan in place anyway?

 

[catent]

It’s basically just a sad attempt for team Bill to grasp at anything that takes the shine off Brady’s 7 rings. If Josh were ever to somehow manage to win a ring as a head coach I sure as hell wouldn’t give him credit for a ring he won as a coordinator.

Who is "team Bill"? Why do you assume the graphics was posted in an effort to "take shine off Brady's 7 rings"?

Talk about a persecution complex.

 

[crawhammer]

OK. We'll just ignore the fact that his stats were literally on a four year decline from 2016-2019.

The decline was obviously slower between 16-18 than it was between 18-19 but a decline is a decline. When you add in his age, it's like owning a 2005 Honda Civic with 250k miles and pretending it's going to last forever even though you've noticed a decline in performance the last 50k miles or so.

Brady fans will cry about this forever. That's expected because it's just the nature of the Boston fanbase (people STILL cry over Nomar). But anyone who thinks it was foolish for Belichick to start planning ahead as his qb is hitting 40 is either dumb or related to Brady.

Remember when everyone understood that Elway was old and tired when he hung them up? He was only 38. Manning was 38 before falling off a cliff. Favre was 38 before embarrassing himself in NY. Marino was 38. Kelly was 36. Montana was 34 before beginning to fall apart.

I will say this until I die. If Belichick signed a 39-40 year old Brady to some crazy 4-5 year contract that took up 10-15% of the cap, the SAME people currently crying would want BB's head unless Brady was perfect the entire contract.

Too many here listen to garbage sports radio where most are extremely biased because they hate Belichick. He's too mean and difficult toward reporters so they trash him and that rubs off on fans.

Firstly, sports radio has nothing to do with any opinions I have. Secondly, signing a 40-year-old Brady to a 4-year contract would have been the best decision of Belichick's career. Thirdly, you f*ckin whack boy.

2016... Brady had arguably the best season of his career. He had a league best measly 0.5 INT%. He set an NFL record with a 14:1 TD:INT ratio. He had the second best QBR of career at 112.2. He posted a 14-1 record and capped off his season with a historic comeback in the Super Bowl throwing for a record 466 yards.

2017... Brady had what would have been his best overall season had Belichick not f*cked him over in the Super Bowl. NFL MVP. Led the league in passing yards. 5th best QBR of his career. Best postseason of his career: 108.6 QBR, 8 TD's, 0 INT's, 377 Y/G, record 505 passing yards in the Super Bowl (topping his own mark from the season before).

2018... 4355 passing yards, 29 TD's, 97.7 QBR, record 14th pro bowl. 317 Y/G in postseason. Converted three consecutive 3rd-10's in OT of road win over KC. Won 6th Super Bowl with 6th game-winning drive.

2019... putrid supporting cast rendered the season meaningless with regard to judging Brady. He performed about as well as could be expected with this cast of losers.

2020... Brady showed what he's still capable of with a good supporting cast and a head coach who gets the f*ck outta tha way. 2nd in pass attempts and completions. 2nd in TD's. 3rd in passing yards. Same QBR as his 2017 MVP season. Won three road playoff games. Tied career best with 10 postseason TD's. Beat three former Super Bowl winners and MVP's. Won his 7th Super Bowl and 5th Super Bowl MVP.

At no point in time between 2016 and 2020 was Brady declining.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Wait. You think that Bill Belichick THREW the Super Bowl? For real?

OK. We'll just ignore the fact that his stats were literally on a four year decline from 2016-2019.

The decline was obviously slower between 16-18 than it was between 18-19 but a decline is a decline. When you add in his age, it's like owning a 2005 Honda Civic with 250k miles and pretending it's going to last forever even though you've noticed a decline in performance the last 50k miles or so.

Brady fans will cry about this forever. That's expected because it's just the nature of the Boston fanbase (people STILL cry over Nomar). But anyone who thinks it was foolish for Belichick to start planning ahead as his qb is hitting 40 is either dumb or related to Brady.

Remember when everyone understood that Elway was old and tired when he hung them up? He was only 38. Manning was 38 before falling off a cliff. Favre was 38 before embarrassing himself in NY. Marino was 38. Kelly was 36. Montana was 34 before beginning to fall apart.

I will say this until I die. If Belichick signed a 39-40 year old Brady to some crazy 4-5 year contract that took up 10-15% of the cap, the SAME people currently crying would want BB's head unless Brady was perfect the entire contract.

Too many here listen to garbage sports radio where most are extremely biased because they hate Belichick. He's too mean and difficult toward reporters so they trash him and that rubs off on fans.

Garbage? That's beautiful coming from a guy that defines performance based on cherry picked stats. Predetermine a conclusion then search history to self fulfill. Your stats lack perspective and data categories that makes your "decline" math fail.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Can we get a first round pick if we offer Biffins as a trade to the Buccaneers fan forum?

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Can we get a first round pick if we offer Biffins as a trade to the Buccaneers fan forum?

We’d prob have to attach our own 1st as a sweetener.