2021 Cap Space

[captain stone]

We've never seen Allen play. I have agreed that we need another NT, two if Allen goes.

So, you believe that Belichick doesn't like Butler and Guy? OK. I disagree.

No one is arguing that we don't need to add a couple front seven folks. I just don't think that this weakness keeps Bill up at night.
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The passing game on the other hand is an unqualified disaster. Our offense COULD be even worse if we lose a couple of OL's.
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FOR ME
Bill will try to keep who he can before free agency formally starts. I don't think that there will be any panic over the defense as long as we keep Butler and Guy. Obviously, Bill expect Allen to start or he will get a $5M-$8M replacement. And I expect us to use a top draft choice for a front seven player. We all agree that there will be help brought in.

Some folks want to replace everyone and start over. I don't think that is what we should do on defense. And I would be shocked if that is Bill's posiiton.

Of course I don't believe that; they're our top two DLmen, but both of them can soon take calls about signing contracts from teams other than the Pats...

Simon, Wise, Fat Thor, Coward, Spence...Dime a dozen, if not a nickel...

Same with Jennings, Bentley, Calhoun & Hall...

We all better pray that Hightower returns ... However, if neither he nor Guy nor Butler are in the building this summer, then we're looking at a front-7 PLUS backups with merely Wino & Uche worthy of keeping around for the re-build ... And the jury is still out regarding those two ...

 

[RobertWeathers]

I apologize. I didn't realize that Dugger had been moved to nickel back. I prefer Jones in that role.

Dugger is our #3 safety, who plays a lot in a LB role.

Do you really consider Dugger a nickel back, when DMac, Jackson and Jones are out there (75% of the time)?

Dugger is FS/SS/LB/CB.

Phillips is FS/SS/LB

DMC is FS/CB

JJ is FS/CB and will take over for DMC at some point.

Chung is SS/CB (LB)

The D calls will dictate playing time but I don't see Dugger and Phillips coming off the field much in 2021.

Jones was about 70% and I don't see that changing either.

Plenty of time for anyone.

 

[mgteich]

Of course I don't believe that; they're our top two DLmen who can both soon take calls about signing contracts with teams other than the Pats...

Simon, Wise, Fat Thor, Coward, Spence...Dime a dozen, if not a nickel...

Same with Jennings, Bentley, Calhoun & Hall...

We all better pray that Hightower returns ... However, if neither he nor Guy nor Butler are in the building this summer, then we're looking at a front-7 PLUS backups with merely Wino & Uche worthy of keeping around for the re-build ... And the jury is still out regarding those two ...

I strongly agree that the front 7 is a dumpster fire without Hightower, Butler, Guy and a NT. That being said, is our front seven really terrible with
Guy, a $8M NT signing, Butler, Hightower, Winovich, Uche and a high draftee?

 

[Ochmed Jones]

The front seven is currently a mess.

we should look at signing a few of our free agents.... Andrews, guy, bethel, folk. Etc.

we should sign at least two free agent receivers and a veteran qb.

the draft should be heavy defense. Barmore 1st and shelvin 3rd would both excel in our defense, but need additional time to develop into full time players.

rice and Cox, both in the 4th would help fill our linebacking vacancies.

 

[mgteich]

Dugger is FS/SS/LB/CB.

Phillips is FS/SS/LB

DMC is FS/CB

JJ is FS/CB and will take over for DMC at some point.

Chung is SS/CB (LB)

The D calls will dictate playing time but I don't see Dugger and Phillips coming off the field much in 2021.

Jones was about 70% and I don't see that changing either.

Plenty of time for anyone.

Yup; plenty of time for everyone.

The open questions revolve around the CB position where the only lock is Jones.

Jackson is an RFA. I could see someone paying a first and signing him to solid contract.
Gilmore may or may not be willing to play for $7M or even for a bit more.
JMac is a free agent, and may or may not have much left in the tank.
Williams seems more suite to play safety, if he is a major factor at all.

 

[captain stone]

I strongly agree that the front 7 is a dumpster fire without Hightower, Butler, Guy and a NT. That being said, is our front seven really terrible with
Guy, a $8M NT signing, Butler, Hightower, Winovich, Uche and a high draftee?

No it isn't, if the high draftee is either an Edge Defender so Hightower can play more of an ILB role; or a Coverage LB so Hightower can play more of an Edge Defender role...I think we need Both another ED And another Coverage LB anyway...really Two EDs, unless Wise wants to return for a vet-minimum, non-guaranteed, one-year type of contract...

 

[mgteich]

No it isn't, if the high draftee is either an Edge Defender so Hightower can play more of an ILB role; or a Coverage LB so Hightower can play more of an Edge Defender role...I think we need Both another ED And another Coverage LB anyway...really Two EDs, unless Wise wants to return for a vet-minimum, non-guaranteed, one-year type of contract...

I tend not to worry about the value of low-level contracts as you do. If Wise can do the job as a DE/DT, then he do the job. In any case, he wouldn't get a huge number of reps.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yup; plenty of time for everyone.

The open questions revolve around the CB position where the only lock is Jones.

Jackson is an RFA. I could see someone paying a first and signing him to solid contract.
Gilmore may or may not be willing to play for $7M or even for a bit more.
JMac is a free agent, and may or may not have much left in the tank.
Williams seems more suite to play safety, if he is a major factor at all.

Agree.

I think...

Jason is gone. Retirement or otherwise.
They want Gilly at $7m but not at $17 so they will trade him...maybe a 3rd?
I like JJ a lot more at FS or in the slot than as a boundary CB.
JuJuan has a ceiling. I just don't know what it is. I don't think BB does either.

Jackson is an interesting situation. I think they will slap the 1st rd tender him and for due-diligence sake listen to offers. What I don't know is A) Have they had extension talks with him and what has been the result? B) What do they think his ceiling is? Do they project him as a top 10 CB? C) Will he sign the tender?

Jackson's agent is none other than Drew Rosenhaus. While he and BB have a very good working relationship, Drew is no pushover.

 

[mgteich]

Agree.

I think...

Jason is gone. Retirement or otherwise.
They want Gilly at $7m but not at $17 so they will trade him...maybe a 3rd?
I like JJ a lot more at FS or in the slot than as a boundary CB.
JuJuan has a ceiling. I just don't know what it is. I don't think BB does either.

Jackson is an interesting situation. I think they will slap the 1st rd tender him and for due-diligence sake listen to offers. What I don't know is A) Have they had extension talks with him and what has been the result? B) What do they think his ceiling is? Do they project him as a top 10 CB? C) Will he sign the tender?

Jackson's agent is none other than Drew Rosenhaus. While he and BB have a very good working relationship, Drew is no pushover.

Accepting your analysis, we have a serious need at corner, needing to add 2.

 

[50-yard-line]

Accepting your analysis, we have a serious need at corner, needing to add 2.

Corners Jackson (they don't lose him unless they want to, and for a 1st rounder), Jones, Bryant, M. Jackson, Williams are here next year. Gilly maybe. JMac maybe.

With DMac, Dugger, Phillips at safety, even if we lose Gilly and JMac, we don't need to break the bank/draft on top-end CBs. Pick up someone like Logan Ryan on short money, if needed. That's a strong secondary. The D's problem was up front this year. They need to get stouter.

 

[luuked]

Dugger is our #3 safety, who plays a lot in a LB role.

You should think of Dugger more of a LB/S hybrid which will give us the option to match up using big nickel packages and less as #3 safety.

 

[captain stone]

Corners Jackson (they don't lose him unless they want to, and for a 1st rounder), Jones, Bryant, M. Jackson, Williams are here next year. Gilly maybe. JMac maybe.

With DMac, Dugger, Phillips at safety, even if we lose Gilly and JMac, we don't need to break the bank/draft on top-end CBs. Pick up someone like Logan Ryan on short money, if needed. That's a strong secondary. The D's problem was up front this year. They need to get stouter.

Both Jones & Bryant are Nickel/Slot guys, not Outside guys...

Mike Jackson is probably just a bottom-of-the-roster guy best-suited as a Tampa 2 CB/Safety anyway...

SloJuan Williams? Please...

Logan Ryan signed an extension with the Vagiants during the season...

Best-case scenario: Everyone returns, Gilmore's rehab is progressing on schedule, we sign a CB to compete for the #4 (Top Outside Backup) spot, thereby saving money for QB, TE, WR, Thuney & Front-7 help, and then draft somebody for the pipeline during Day 3...

More-likely scenario: JMac retires/signs elsewhere, Gilmore holds out during rehab, JCJack has yet to be extended, Bill signs a CB for close to Gilmore money but not close to Gilmore caliber, and then drafts one much, Much earlier then I would have wanted him to do...

 

[mgteich]

You should think of Dugger more of a LB/S hybrid which will give us the option to match up using big nickel packages and less as #3 safety.

I agree.

Perhaps, we are dealing with semantics.

Jones was needed as a regular nickel back, He played in over 70% of the reps. Should this change?

Duggar was a SS/LB who you call a big nickel. I agree that we need that role, given the coverage abilities of our linebackers. Duggar played this role on 50% of the reps. Do you expect this to change?

You seem to use the term #3 safety to mean the first on the field as a backup to McCourty and Phillips. I use the term more simply to mean the safety who has 3rd most reps. Who is the backup safety? I don't know. I suspect that if McCourty or Phillips is out, we would just see more of Jones and Duggar. The other choices are not appealing: Williams and Brooks.

 

[luuked]

I agree.

Perhaps, we are dealing with semantics.

Jones was needed as a regular nickel back, He played in over 70% of the reps. Should this change?

Duggar was a SS/LB who you call a big nickel. I agree that we need that role, given the coverage abilities of our linebackers. Duggar played this role on 50% of the reps. Do you expect this to change?

You seem to use the term #3 safety to mean the first on the field as a backup to McCourty and Phillips. I use the term more simply to mean the safety who has 3rd most reps. Who is the backup safety? I don't know. I suspect that if McCourty or Phillips is out, we would just see more of Jones and Duggar. The other choices are not appealing: Williams and Brooks.

I think this all depends on how much of a jump Dugger makes until the next season and in how many packages he will be included.

I expect him to become a very versatile player that can line up almost anywhere and enable us to be more multiple on defense. It would also take away an obvious target for opponents to exploit with RBs/TEs in space. He could turn into someone who is an every snap player at some point next year.

Ideally.

 

[Ring 6]

Of course I don't believe that; they're our top two DLmen, but both of them can soon take calls about signing contracts from teams other than the Pats...

Simon, Wise, Fat Thor, Coward, Spence...Dime a dozen, if not a nickel...

Same with Jennings, Bentley, Calhoun & Hall...

We all better pray that Hightower returns ... However, if neither he nor Guy nor Butler are in the building this summer, then we're looking at a front-7 PLUS backups with merely Wino & Uche worthy of keeping around for the re-build ... And the jury is still out regarding those two ...

If hightower is here we have 60,000,000 to spend on player acquisitions. If he’s not we have over 70,000,000

 

[Ring 6]

I agree.

Perhaps, we are dealing with semantics.

Jones was needed as a regular nickel back, He played in over 70% of the reps. Should this change?

Duggar was a SS/LB who you call a big nickel. I agree that we need that role, given the coverage abilities of our linebackers. Duggar played this role on 50% of the reps. Do you expect this to change?

You seem to use the term #3 safety to mean the first on the field as a backup to McCourty and Phillips. I use the term more simply to mean the safety who has 3rd most reps. Who is the backup safety? I don't know. I suspect that if McCourty or Phillips is out, we would just see more of Jones and Duggar. The other choices are not appealing: Williams and Brooks.

Dugger did not play the ss/lb role this year Phillips did. Digger projects to that role though.

 

[Ring 6]

I strongly agree that the front 7 is a dumpster fire without Hightower, Butler, Guy and a NT. That being said, is our front seven really terrible with
Guy, a $8M NT signing, Butler, Hightower, Winovich, Uche and a high draftee?

If those players aren’t here others will be. We have 60 mill. Whether we spend that on players like guy and butler or 2 others, those spots will be filled with quality players.

 

[luuked]

If hightower is here we have 60,000,000 to spend on player acquisitions. If he’s not we have over 70,000,000

If we want to compete and I could chose I'd rather have HT than 12.5m more in cap space. But after Reiss' column a week ago it seems like retirement might actually be the odds on favorite.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

If hightower is here we have 60,000,000 to spend on player acquisitions. If he’s not we have over 70,000,000

priorities:

1.) veteran qb - bb is 68 years old and chasing halas. He does not have time to buy any green bananas,

2.) veteran wr - preferably one to line up outside and with speed. Short two year deal.

3.) veteran wr part 2 - preferably a twitchy slot guy. Again a short deal.

4.) resign Andrews, guy, bethel, slater and maybe one or two others.

5.) use the draft to load up on stud defenders.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Accepting your analysis, we have a serious need at corner, needing to add 2.

I think they will absolutely go after a CB.