The Biggest Reason We Are Starting A Rebuild

[BelizePats]

Bring Grier back.

Even mentioning his name makes me angry. Worst GM ever! Ever!!!

 

[captain stone]

Can't believe he had the audacity to tell the truth. What an embarrassment to himself and the organization.

But whose fault is it for the truth being that we have garbage at QB, WR, TE, DT, DE, ILB, OLB & PK?

Of the recent mistakes the team has made talent wise I do not consider moving on from Jimmy G one of them. He appears to be a middle of the pack QB who is unfortunately quite fragile.

Agreed...Damn shame however that we couldn't have received more in the trading of him...

 

[1960Pats]

So what? The would have won in 2018 with Jimmy G. They are in a rebuilt now, specifically because they don't have a QB. They would have one if Jimmy G wasn't traded.

That was Kraft's second biggest mistake, behind kicking Parcells out of town for Bobby Grier...

Wrong on both counts.

 

[1960Pats]

sounds like hes fed up with criticisms and just couldn’t keep quiet anymore. Agreed tho its unlike him, usually would’ve expected some bland “were just trying to field the best team that can win games” or something like that.

This is why I feel like Bill is being defensive.

 

[1960Pats]

Our future draft picks MUST possess CAT like quickness.
Someone please tell Coach Bill

I'm sure the GM will speak to him if he hasn't already.

 

[Brewskies]

The biggest reason we are beginning a rebuild is the first picks we drafted from 2014 to now.

2014 - Dominic Easley (1st round): bust
2015 - Malcom Brown (1st round): below average
2016 - Cyrus Jones (2nd round): bust
2017 - Derek Rivers (3rd round): bust
2018 - Isiah Wynn (1st round): average
2019 - N’Keal Harry (1st round): looking like a bust
2020 - Kyle Dugger (2nd round): to be determined

We completely whiffed on 5 of our 7 first picks since 2014. Those are the picks you need to pick studs. Before 2014 Belichick nailed many of those first picks including Seymour, Mankins, McCourty, Jones, Warren, Mayo, Chung, Solder, and Collins.

I think the BIGGEST REASON for the Pats to start a rebuild is THEY HAVE TO

 

[RobertWeathers]

Even mentioning his name makes me angry. Worst GM ever! Ever!!!

Notorious BIG (Bobby Idiot Grier)

With that said his son is doing a fine job in Miami.

 

[1960Pats]

I'm just guessing, but I think Bill is more found of having more total picks.

In spite of having some picks stolen by the NYJ's biggest dope, the Pats under Bill have had more picks than all the other AFCE teams. These are the totals;
Pats - 165
Bills - 147
Fins - 138
Jete - 125

No matter what round they're in, having one or two more picks each year for 20 years has to be better.

 

[slifersd]

Perhaps some qualification here might shed some light:

Easly pick #29
Brown pick #32
Jones pick #60
Rivers pick #83
Wynn pick #23
Harry pick #32
Duggar pick #37...

Notice a trend here?? The average pick for the period of time chosen is the average pick number is over 40 ( which is about as idiotic as looking at the individual players) ... but somehow BB got this team to the Super Bowl 5 times in the same period winning 3 of them.. oh the horrors at how bad he is in building a team. How could any quantify BB's success based on his draft picks..

I am the luckiest fan in the world, we have a bad season and continual whyning and finger pointing as to how terrible BB is.. there are about 25 fans of teams out there who would love to be this "bad"...

Here is the thing about draft picks, they may or may not produce a lot of impact to your team in year one or two for your team, but drafting badly will have a lasting impact years down the road. We did indeed win 3 super bowls and not a single person here is saying BB the GM is without his merits. But look at the core of the team that won those super bowls, Brady, Gronk, Edelman, Gilmore, Hightower, McCourty, etc. You will notice none of them were drafted in the last 7 years. Sure, it didn't hurt us during that time, but we are now seeing the impact it made on our team right in front of our eyes. The team is completely devoid of young talent, had to rely on paying aging veterans big money and now have cap issues. Draft picks are insanely valuable to NFL teams because it is really the only way to have not just short term but sustainable success. The argument that "hey, sure we drafted badly but it didn't impact us winning superbowls in that time frame" is like saying "hey, sure I started smoking three packs of cigarettes a day, but it didn't kill me today so it must not be a problem".

 

[SlowGettingUp]

We notice all the successful draft picks other teams make, but we forget about all their busts.

The Pats have lost a bunch of picks via penalties and we ae always drafting at the bottom of the round - that has a clear cost - our first round pick is basically the same as some other team's second.

We also went for bust in a couple of years in an attempt to win the Super Bowl - we traded picks for players, which is good (on average) in the short run, but hurts in the long run as you are more likely to have salary cap issues.

 

[203Pat]

We notice all the successful draft picks other teams make, but we forget about all their busts.

The Pats have lost a bunch of picks via penalties and we ae always drafting at the bottom of the round - that has a clear cost - our first round pick is basically the same as some other team's second.

We also went for bust in a couple of years in an attempt to win the Super Bowl - we traded picks for players, which is good (on average) in the short run, but hurts in the long run as you are more likely to have salary cap issues.

I am so sick of this argument. There are good players late in round one we just aren't picking them. There are good players in the second round we just aren't picking them. We are routinely swinging and missing early in the draft and most times badly. Harry, Sony, Joejuan, Dawson, Rivers, Garcia, Cyrus, Malcolm Brown, Jordan Richards, Geneo Grissom, Easley. All underwhelming or flat-out busts. That is a ton of high picks that didn't work out with really only a small handful of good to solid players thrown in the mix. We routinely have high round picks as healthy scratches in year one and two while other teams have rookies that jump right in and contribute. Bill needs to adjust they type of players he is taking because what he is doing is not working.

 

[Boomer B]

Perhaps some qualification here might shed some light:

Easly pick #29
Brown pick #32
Jones pick #60
Rivers pick #83
Wynn pick #23
Harry pick #32
Duggar pick #37...

Notice a trend here?? The average pick for the period of time chosen is the average pick number is over 40 ( which is about as idiotic as looking at the individual players) ... but somehow BB got this team to the Super Bowl 5 times in the same period winning 3 of them.. oh the horrors at how bad he is in building a team. How could any quantify BB's success based on his draft picks..

I am the luckiest fan in the world, we have a bad season and continual whyning and finger pointing as to how terrible BB is.. there are about 25 fans of teams out there who would love to be this "bad"...

Yea, we all know and appreciate how well the team did. That wasn’t the point of the thread. Our success came mostly from the impact players Belichick drafted before 2013, not after. Brady, Gronk, Edelman, Hightower, McCourty, Solder, Cannon, Chung. The drafts after 2013 should be the core of our players now and they aren’t as high caliber players.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

I saw a statistic about the number of players drafted from 2015-2018 that were still on a team in 2018. The Pats were exactly average - based on the round of their picks they expected just about 72% hit rate, and that's exactly where they were. But fewer ended up on the team, because it was tougher for a rookie to make the Pats than the average team.

 

[Doctor DDS]

Yea, we all know and appreciate how well the team did. That wasn’t the point of the thread. Our success came mostly from the impact players Belichick drafted before 2013, not after. Brady, Gronk, Edelman, Hightower, McCourty, Solder, Cannon, Chung. The drafts after 2013 should be the core of our players now and they aren’t as high caliber players.

The Pats drafts/UFA the last 7 or so years includes White, Flowers, Mason, Andrews, Wynn, Jackson who are comparable to many of the players you reference. Too early on the last 2 drafts but some have shown a lot of promise like Owenu. For years McCourty was being crushed as a CB bust and questions raised as to why Pats did not draft Dez Bryant instead of him. Wynn is off to a better career start than Cannon. They let Chung go initially due to his lack of success. Flowers blowing up and demanding a max type contract and leaving instead of becoming a team cornerstone really hurt.

BB has been far from perfect and I agree that they need a couple game changers like Gronk or Edelman and a new QB to help turn things around. Am hopeful they can accomplish that through trades, FA and the draft. I actually think BB's lack of recent success finding those overlooked veterans like Van Noy, T. Brown, Lafell, Hogan has been a bigger issue than the draft.

 

[moosekill]

This is exactly why BB should have been trading up all that time instead of trading out of the first rd. The two times he did it, he ended up with two great players and not six mediocre ones!

Well, except that the odds of hitting are still not 100%. You have a good chance of getting a better player at 50 then you do at 80, but do you have a better chance of getting a better player at 50 then you do at 80 and 100?

 

[SlowGettingUp]

Here's one study showing the miserable success rates for WRs:

Of 317 selected, only 74 have become starters for at least half their careers.
The first round success rate is 58% and the second round is almost as good at 49%.
The third round has the second highest number of receivers drafted with 52 but only a 25% success rate.

What stats tells us about the draft by round

The best times to draft certain positions based on the last 10 years.

www.arrowheadpride.com

 

[Boomer B]

The Pats drafts/UFA the last 7 or so years includes White, Flowers, Mason, Andrews, Wynn, Jackson who are comparable to many of the players you reference. Too early on the last 2 drafts but some have shown a lot of promise like Owenu. For years McCourty was being crushed as a CB bust and questions raised as to why Pats did not draft Dez Bryant instead of him. Wynn is off to a better career start than Cannon. They let Chung go initially due to his lack of success. Flowers blowing up and demanding a max type contract and leaving instead of becoming a team cornerstone really hurt.

BB has been far from perfect and I agree that they need a couple game changers like Gronk or Edelman and a new QB to help turn things around. Am hopeful they can accomplish that through trades, FA and the draft. I actually think BB's lack of recent success finding those overlooked veterans like Van Noy, T. Brown, Lafell, Hogan has been a bigger issue than the draft.

Please. Brady and Gronk are the 2 best ever at their positions. Edelman is one of the best clutch post season players ever. Hightower and McCourty are 2 upper echelon defenders. To win multiple SBs you need these types. The guys you named are fine and are contributors, but they’re not all-timers.

Many teams have good players like you mentioned, but if we want to be contenders we need Belichick to hit on the next few drafts with players that are difference makers.

 

[Doctor DDS]

Please. Brady and Gronk are the 2 best ever at their positions. Edelman is one of the best clutch post season players ever. Hightower and McCourty are 2 upper echelon defenders. To win multiple SBs you need these types. The guys you named are fine and are contributors, but they’re not all-timers.

Many teams have good players like you mentioned, but if we want to be contenders we need Belichick to hit on the next few drafts with players that are difference makers.

If you read my post I excluded Brady, Gronk and Edelman from the comparison as they obviously need some of those high end difference makers. Of course they miss Brady as he is the GOAT - who wouldn't. I just don't think the cupboard is as bare as others think. Their OL drafting is as good as it has ever been and Thuney is probably the 2nd best lineman they have had in the dynasty. Owenu looks extremely promising and even a 6th rounder like Karras is now a starting center. There is no question they need to hit on a few difference makers but they have acquired numerous core players just like the prior teams had.

 

[VJCPatriot]

The biggest reason we are beginning a rebuild is the first picks we drafted from 2014 to now.

2014 - Dominic Easley (1st round): bust
2015 - Malcom Brown (1st round): below average
2016 - Cyrus Jones (2nd round): bust
2017 - Derek Rivers (3rd round): bust
2018 - Isiah Wynn (1st round): average
2019 - N’Keal Harry (1st round): looking like a bust
2020 - Kyle Dugger (2nd round): to be determined

We completely whiffed on 5 of our 7 first picks since 2014. Those are the picks you need to pick studs. Before 2014 Belichick nailed many of those first picks including Seymour, Mankins, McCourty, Jones, Warren, Mayo, Chung, Solder, and Collins.

Exactly right. The Patriots drafting history has been poor over the past 5 or so years. Belichick should have drafted a replacement tight end for Gronk as soon as he started chirping about retirement. He did nothing until after he forced Brady out. Too little too late. Our tight ends are still bad even today.

I'm not surprised that the Pats are in rebuild mode this season. You get rid of the best QB of all time, you can't expect the same levels of performance. Brady's greatness papered over so much of the flaws in the Patriots. When that could no longer hold true last season, BB didn't look in the mirror, instead he decided to move on to a future with Cam Newton at QB. As we see now, the roll of the dice did not pay off.

The years of bad drafting have resulted in a team that is subpar in overall talent, especially on offense. It might take a couple of years to get out of this funk. The only good news is that the Pats will be drafting in the top 10, which should allow them to move up for a Franchise QB, if one exists in the upcoming NFL draft.

 

[cupofjoe1962]

The biggest reason we are beginning a rebuild is the first picks we drafted from 2014 to now.

2014 - Dominic Easley (1st round): bust
2015 - Malcom Brown (1st round): below average
2016 - Cyrus Jones (2nd round): bust
2017 - Derek Rivers (3rd round): bust
2018 - Isiah Wynn (1st round): average
2019 - N’Keal Harry (1st round): looking like a bust
2020 - Kyle Dugger (2nd round): to be determined

We completely whiffed on 5 of our 7 first picks since 2014. Those are the picks you need to pick studs. Before 2014 Belichick nailed many of those first picks including Seymour, Mankins, McCourty, Jones, Warren, Mayo, Chung, Solder, and Collins.

Let’s not forget drafting Sony Michel in the first round of the 2018 draft !
I have seen better UDFA than Sony Michel